Looking for advice/thoughts/feedback. house is causing harm, mom isn't able to call the helper

[littleoc]

ou have a horrible choice to make --- but horrible doesn't mean complicated. You either stay with her and agree to live as she does or you move out and begin living your own life.

That last part is something my T keeps saying to me. That I need to start picturing my future and deciding what belongs there and what doesn't. It's how she's helping me cut off my dad. I don't want to cut off my mom, I'd like to be able to eat at a table with her with good homemade, not-restaurant-or-fast-food meals.

But I'd also like her to actually behave like she has diabetes instead of denying it. And obviously that i can't change

you are not abandoning her.

This was weird to hear. Same with realizing it was her problem as well.

Is it awful to think of leaving your mom in that situation? God yes.
But it is just as awful to think of you staying there with her

That's a good point. My all-day nosebleeds are back and my thrust hurts again and my eyes itch, and my cockatiel is wondering why I'm not letting her roam outside her cage unless she's only on my bed or shoulder (my rules about her never leaving my shoulder confuse her for good reason and prevent her from getting decent exercise even when I put the cat elsewhere) and my snake needs a cage clean.


I think I'm picking up my dad's animal hoarding because I got the snake impulsively because he was a baby albino being sold at $20 as unwanted because he didn't have the breeder's blue pigment, but be was actually nice (the blue ones kept biting me), though the blue ones were 250$-800$, and later I noticed his one dotty bit of pigment was blue and he also was a bit blind so I HAD to have him, and I still love him so much. I did that kind of thing with the cat we have now, and the cat even needed to be spayed and such and we literally didn't have the money...

The amount of pigeons I saved at university is something I'm proud of, though. But I kept getting impulsive urges to get more pets, including pigs and parakeets and newts, and I have no idea how to handle it and don't want to be anything like my dad. But at least I consider animals to be alive and conscious, rather than my dad thinking they were just comodities (even black market creatures who were critically endangered, which still upsets me).

Okay, I'm definitely sleep deprived or upset from breathing this bad air, because part of that was ranty. I'd better stop while I'm ahead :P

Thank you for your feedback. I need to accept that there aren't always beautiful results, even if I have learned how to get help. I'll keep trying (not forcefully I hope) but I'll be trying to convince myself that it's not something I can fix alone OR something that will fix just because I want it to or find it necessary.

Service dog hasn't played with any toy since we've been here, except for a small toy frog because the cat (she loves the cat) was chasing it. N doesn't have enough room to play with anything, really. The moment my twin brother let her in his cleaned out, clean room, she immediately stretched out and got playful...

 

[mumstheword]

My guy's a hoarder, we live together, it's very stressful and not health-promoting, to say the least.
I'm currently trying to move out but I still want to help him. I, like you, get seriously triggered from cleaning, though and the unhealthiness and overcrowding has contributed to me getting really f*cking unwell.

I, like you, concentrated on uni, until my health got so bad I couldn't even study, but I'm older and tireder than you.

My mum was a hoarder too, and my ex and her both maligned me and domestically abused and enslaved me. I need to both survive this hoarder hell, build my recovery and wellness and help my guy (who also resists outside help) to transform.this place into a livable home, so I'm feeling ya @littleoc .
I don't really have any solutions or answers, just empathy and peer level understanding of the hardness of this kind of situation.

I'm just concentrating on trying to move out, so I can try to learn to actually live rather than just survive. I also don't have my license or a car yet. It just feels bigger and more entrenched than I can fix, with my level of wellness or lack thereof. Meanwhile I'm here, just trying to survive and do what I can in this severely limiting, trauma-site environment.
((((((Hugs))))))) :hug::hug::hug: @littleoc , this is one big, cluttered, stinky, hole to try climb out of.:wtf::unsure::oops::eek::mad::bawling::poop::notworthy::barefoot::confused:

 

[scout86]

I think I'm picking up my dad's animal hoarding

You've mentioned a few times that you have trouble knowing what you need and what you get rid of, and fears about not having enough etc. Having this kind of fears has got to make this situation even harder than would for most people. Are you working on this in therapy? Have you got a plan for learning to drive and getting your license?

 

[Freida]

I guess I should have tossed this out earlier but just thought of it! LOL

My brother is a nut job. Over the years he has had to live with me on and off during his really bad phases. I've pretty much been responsible for him since I was 19 -- he is 6 years younger than me - because when he his in a bad phase he is impossible. He gets homicidal and suicidal and I am the only person who can talk him down. I've lost track of the times that I have had to sit in the ER with him, or pick him up and take him home because they didn't have any room and I was considered his "safe" space.

I had been married about 5 years when he came to live with us again. When he got stable and left my hubby said that was the last time and I would have to choose between him and brother. I was beyond livid. But. Hubby saw this whole situation differently than I did. He saw the toll it took on me, the constant worrying, trying to keep everyone safe, while still working full time and juggling a marriage. He saw that I was giving up a huge part of my own life and my own future to deal with brother.

So off to counseling I went -- to learn to draw better boundaries. How can I support him without losing my self? What T and I came up with was a contract. If brother wanted to live with me again he had to sign a contract that outlined everything living with me would entail. Like -- He had to make me the payee on his SSI so that I could save his money for him, he had to do chores around the house and not just sleep on the couch all day, he had to attend all his counseling sessions, blah blah. I discussed it with him and he said no. HE made the choice to sleep under a bridge rather than stay with me and follow the contract. And y'know what? I was ok with that. Because I was still willing to take care of him. I just needed to find a way to do that without it harming me.

Maybe that is something that you can do with mom? You are willing to stay home and help -- but on your conditions. If she chooses not to agree - it's on her. Because you are giving her a choice. It's not about abandoning her. It's about finding a solution that works for BOTH of you.

 

[littleoc]

I just want to point out that because I mentioned toys, the ads on this thread are now toys, especially little plastic toy frogs that are as cheap as 3$ for a little set of 12 realistic frogs and I really had to fight myself from clicking that ad. Lol. But I did.

It just feels bigger and more entrenched than I can fix, with my level of wellness or lack thereof. Meanwhile I'm here, just trying to survive and do what I can in this severely limiting, trauma-site environment.

Hugs back, @mumstheword . :hug: I suppose I should do the same thing that you are. Unless a miracle happens. I'm still holding out.

Are you working on this in therapy? Have you got a plan for learning to drive and getting your license?

For the first question, kind of. My therapist is a trauma specialist, not a hoarding specialist. She doesn't understand anything but the basics of hoarding. She went against what I knew would be best several times because she had read small blurbs on the internet, but I was patient and waited for her to figure it out. She eventually told me she had no idea what she was talking about. The farthest we've gone on it is to discuss my fear of running out of food, and she convinced me to try living without canned food hoarded under my bed. I've managed that, even when I got scared my mom's income was about to disappear, but I'm not sure if it helped. Because this week when I went to the university, I packed so much food that I straight up couldn't use it all, because I was that worried I wouldn't have enough.

I managed to pack light on sleeping essentials and stuffed animals, though on two types of clothing items I couldn't pack light. Just couldn't get myself to. My research trip to Iceland where we were living in tents helped me learn to pack light for most things, but not food. I was afraid of running out of food there, too. Even went into a mode once... food there is expensive, but I didn't want to steal, especially not in a foreign country.

My T says my hoarding tendencies are small for now but involve fear of needing/wanting something later and also that my memory is way too strong and physical objects serve as physical embodiments of my memories, which allows me to organize them and not feel I need to keep track of my memories in the same way. That's all I've heard about it, though.

I had a plan, but it didn't work out. So... I guess I'll make another one? It'll be way harder this time though.

Because I was still willing to take care of him. I just needed to find a way to do that without it harming me.

Because you are giving her a choice. It's not about abandoning her. It's about finding a solution that works for BOTH of you.

Great points. I'll work with this. I can work with that. Thank you :)

 

[littleoc]

Actually... I think I'm confused.

I've always felt like I was supposed to care for my mom. When she told me to do things for th safety of this family, I didn't ever question it until middle school when she told me that telling my guidance counselor at school that I was scared my dad was poisoning me/giving me worms was dangerous to our entire family, because she could lose us.

I thought I was dying but she said my dad getting exposed would be dangerous? Wtf?

I saved the family by exposing my father, which risked my life and my siblings' -- so it makes sense that my mom wouldn't have.

But then it was my responsibility to clean the house, and my responsibility to make sure my mom got her insulin injection because I had nurse training, despite my insane terror of needles, I was the only one doing chores to keep this house clean -- and with all that it is no wonder I preferred to live with an ex who was forcing me into sexual acts and convincing me I wasn't a human or an animal of any kind -- because I was avoiding having to be in this house.

Ugh, I've already gone over this with @Freida at least. Probably others as well. I'm clearly confused. I just want the house clean. But I really need to step back and stop putting so much effort into it. Y'all are right, this isn't my responsibility.

And literally no one has said otherwise, or even the basics of "suck it up and deal with it and just clean it for yourself if it'a bothering you that bad" so there's that. My reality needs un-skewing.

I'll probably keep trying for a bit -- I contacted S (the lady who wants to help us) asking a few more questions, but if I STILL can't get help, I'll ask my therapist to talk to a hoardings expert of some kind for help for myself, tell my mom to get what she wants out of my room because even if I DO *have* to live here I refuse to live in an actually dangerous dump. So get what you want and I'm literally going to fight myself getting rid of the rest because this is ridiculous.

Thank you all again for your feedback <3 You are incredibly helpful. This community is wonderful.

 

[scout86]

So... I guess I'll make another one? It'll be way harder this time though.

Absolutely make a new one. I wouldn't necessarily assume it will be harder this time. Kinds of often things get easier the more you work on them,, even if you aren't successful the first time. (Want to discuss options,, possibilities, and potential obstacles?)

I don't understand hoarding at all either, so I'm not much help there. I'm totally sure, like a lot of this stuff, the fear is reasonable on some level and it's not something you can just "get over". You seem pretty smart and pretty serious about working things, I'm betting you will. :)

 

[littleoc]

Kinds of often things get easier the more you work on them,, even if you aren't successful the first time. (Want to discuss options,, possibilities, and potential obstacles?)

That's true. I'm now able to practice without as much fear. The main issue currently is that my mom has to teach me, but she's so busy, she almost never has time. I'm afraid of cars so I didn't learn when my siblings did. I was afraid of dissociations while driving (this has already been addressed by helpful members in this forum so we're good there), but am also afraid of my mom getting suddenly upset and scaring me, and of making mistakes. But I'm getting by those obstacles really well.

The main problem is timing. Since I got a summer job in May, that will last to July or even August if I can manage it (finding housing), but I won't have a car or a way to be taught.

I do wonder if it would be weird if I asked the other people I know to help me learn...? If they were comfortable?

I had hoped to before May so I could get food easily but I should be fine if I'm careful.

You seem pretty smart and pretty serious about working things, I'm betting you will. :)

Thank you :) I really appreciate that. I hope you're right

 

[scout86]

I do wonder if it would be weird if I asked the other people I know to help me learn...? If they were comfortable?

No, it wouldn't be weird at all. In fact, sometimes someone else can handle it better than a parent. Too much baggage with parents or spouses!

 

[Nessa7]

Has anyone directed you to information about scapegoating in families? I think it might be helpful in trying to understand the dynamics in your family.

Would a crisis shelter be a possibility in your area? It might be something to talk to your therapist about. In my area, you would qualify for at least a month, but it is going to be different everywhere.

 

[littleoc]

Too much baggage with parents or spouses!

Lol, too true! I have a friend who has two daughters my age, so I he might be a good teacher if he wants. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask. My next boss doesn't have children but she might also be willing. Or I could ask a friend my age. Or one of my siblings even lol

In my area, you would qualify for at least a month, but it is going to be different everywhere.

Do you mean I specifically would qualify, or that in general I might? Are we in the same country? I'm in the United States. :)

 

[Freida]

But then it was my responsibility to clean the house, and my responsibility to make sure my mom got her insulin injection because I had nurse training, despite my insane terror of needles

Ok...repeat after me... I was a child and it was NEVER my responsibility. Children should never be responsible for their parents and their family. They are children. I was given chores by people who didn't want to do them and they made me believe I was somehow responsible for everything.

preferred to live with an ex who was forcing me into sexual acts and convincing me I wasn't a human or an animal of any kind -- because I was avoiding having to be in this house.

Oh sweetie -- and you wonder why you are struggling to leave now? This ^^^^ is the only alternative you know. Of course you would stay in a hoarder house rather than this. But you have other options now - as an adult. No one is going to hurt you like that just because you leave the house.

or even the basics of "suck it up and deal with it and just clean it for yourself if it'a bothering you that bad" so there's that. My reality needs un-skewing.

Yes...yes it does.

Ugh, I've already gone over this with @Freida at least.

and we will keep going over it as long as you need to...... just sayin!:hug::hug: