Feeling Lost...just A Complaint

[DogwoodTree]

T suggested I try EMDR, and that requires working with a different T for a while since the T I've been seeing for nearly 2 years isn't trained in it.

He told me about 3 options: 2 women and 1 man. I prefer working with male Ts because of emotional abuse from my mom. But due to the nature of the sexual abuse, I decided I should work with a female for this part.

I'm really struggling with this. I've seen the new T three times now. I don't dislike her, but I don't feel comfortable, either. I hate the idea of using EMDR. There's something about her having control over a physical sensation being stimulated in my body that freaks me out. (And yes, I've told her this.)

Last week she offered fidget toys...things I can handle to help calm the anxiety some. I told her I didn't want them, that I didn't want to be causing a physical sensation from an item in front of her. She offered them again this week, and also talked about how she might position us differently in the room, or close the curtains if I wanted, or any number of other things we could adjust so I'd feel more comfortable. The whole conversation grossed me out. I don't want her to accommodate me in any way. I don't want her doing anything unusual for me, because it feels like that just highlights how screwed up I am.

She asked about eye contact. I have asperger's and avoid eye contact whenever possible. I can make eye contact, but it feels intrusive because I'm hyper-sensitive to people's body language, and I can't keep in touch with a sense of my self if I'm looking directly at someone else. It seems this was important information to her, but I hate that we had to talk about it at all.

We discussed the window of tolerance concept, and how she can help coach me when I get out of that window of tolerance. I said it really bothers me that she would see me well enough to monitor me that way. I don't really want her to know anything about me, and certainly not anything about what I'm feeling or experiencing.

Like, I get that this is her job, that none of this is bizarre to her, that I'm paying her to monitor me and coach me and give feedback. But it creeps me out that she sees me. In those sessions, I feel so ashamed to be there, and so self-conscious.

From what my regular T says, this woman is very well qualified and highly trained. So I think I just need to push through and make this work. But I don't like starting over with someone new. I don't like working with a woman. I don't like her office. I don't like the way she dresses or the way she sits. I don't like not seeing my regular T. I don't like the idea of EMDR or somatic processing or any of the rest of it.

And I feel like I'm drifting, with not seeing my regular T and not sure I can work with this new T. I feel lost.

I keep telling myself this is the right move. She seems much more comfortable with the deep trauma issues, and seems to have a more fluid approach to working on that stuff. But...this isn't what I chose, you know? I mean, yes, I made the decision to move forward with this. But she's not the kind of person I would have picked out to work with.

And being a woman, I feel like she's not "strong enough" or something. I'm sure she probably is strong enough, whatever that means, but it doesn't feel like it. I feel like I have to protect her from my crap (and yes, I've told her this too). No amount of telling myself differently lets me drop the barriers that are designed to protect women from what's inside me. I don't want to hurt her by saying the wrong thing or showing too much emotion. I don't feel safe with her.

But I didn't really feel safe with my regular T, either. I never felt like he actually liked me. I couldn't talk about the abuse itself because I didn't want to put those images of me in his head. And I feel so deeply ashamed of some of the ways he's seen me behave in sessions with him, how I've shut down, or how I've let pain or stupid fear or whatever show through. I've not been able to really open up with him, either. The shame of it all is unbearable.

I just hate all of this. I hate who I am, and who I've become. I hate being human. I wish I never existed.

 

[anonymous]

I couldn't work with someone who I didn't like. Is there no one else? I can actually imagine because I had a woman who I didn't like too-yes the posture, the dress, the hair, the voice. Yeuch. I could not do it with her.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I couldn't work with someone who I didn't like. Is there no one else? I can actually imagine because I had a woman who I didn't like too-yes the posture, the dress, the hair, the voice.

It's not that I dislike her as a person. I've tried working with Ts where I wouldn't want to be around them outside of therapy, and that just doesn't work at all--it's disgusting and repulsive. That's not the situation here. She'd probably make a decent coffee-buddy under other circumstances.

But as a therapist, she doesn't feel safe...it doesn't seem like she's strong enough to handle the mess inside me. I've never, ever, ever, depended on a woman for anything significant without some significant emotional preparations for their not coming through. I don't trust women. In my mind, they're too weak (and I say this as a female myself) and emotional. They might have some friendly things to say, and perhaps some useful and intriguing insights on things--I do like having conversations with certain kinds of women. I have 5 women that I meet with one-on-one for coffee or lunch or whatever in an effort to build some friendships. But the degree to which I'm able to open up to them is determined by the degree to which they're more tom-boyish or otherwise unconcerned with femininity-related issues, like fancy clothes or make-up or whatever, and yet still comfortable with and sure of themselves.

To be honest, I actually really admire women who are in touch with their femininity, but that's so foreign to me that I can't relate to those women at all. I've never been the kind of person that intensely-female or intensely-male people wanted to be around.

This T is more girly than I'll ever be, although she does seem to have an intellectual side to her, too. But that doesn't mean she can handle the awfulness inside me.

Or maybe I'm just using all of this as an excuse to avoid the work, I don't know.

 

[Rumors]

I think it boils down to shame more than anything. As you said before, you hate for her to see you in any emotional way. I get it. Me too. It's the shame I carry for what I have done or been through and I really don't want anyone to see that. Ugh.
All I can tell you is that maybe you should go back to your old t and do some work on shame before you do the emdr. Or do that work with the new t. My t does emdr too so I didn't have to change. I have had to do a lot of work on shame only because it takes away from the healing and gets in the way. I wish I had more to contribute and I hear your struggle. I hope you are able to move ahead as necessary.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I think it boils down to shame more than anything.

This is probably true.

What does working on shame look like?

Found this chapter from a book:

http://www.recoveryonpurpose.com/up... the Therapy Hour Summary and Integration.pdf

Page 388 talks about how to work on shame caused by a misplaced sense of responsibility. "...it is useful to encourage clients to reassess attributions of culpability." My regular T has done this a lot already. That's helped with not feeling so ashamed for some of the problems I experience in relationships, like the fact I can't be physically intimate with my DH right now, or when my mom gets angry at me for something my sister has done, or something as simple as feeling drained after talking with someone who talked about themselves the whole time.

Page 391 gives the Five A's of positive interactions: Attention, Approval, Acceptance, Admiration, Affirmation. The examples they give are heartbreaking in a way, as I think about how little I've received that from my parents or other people...up until very recently when I started being able to identify healthy people to be in relationship with. It helps to understand where some of the shame came from.

None of that really gets into the body-level shame from being abused and objectified for so long. How do I learn to accept my body? ...that I have physical sensations, just like everyone else? ...that I'm getting older and looking older (I'm in my 40s)? How do I learn to accept that I have flaws? ...that I can't and don't have to be perfect? ...that the ways I'm different from other people is okay? How do I learn to accept being on the outside of social groups? Just thinking about my social failures makes me feel anger and despair and hopelessness. I don't belong in social groups--I don't fit, it doesn't work. The pain of that knowledge rips me apart inside, and I just want to give up on myself. I hate the idea of letting this T see all of this in me, how repulsive I am. Maybe she wouldn't be so repulsed, but I'm disgusted at the thought of it.

 

[Rumors]

This is probably true.

What does working on shame look like?

Found this chapter from a book:

[UR...

Gosh so much of that I can relate to in so many ways... I don't know that I have the answer but this I do know the more I talk "about" the things that bring me great shame the better I get at not feeling so ashamed about them. I don't necessarily talk in detail about them but just acknowledge that they happened and that someone else in the world can still sit in the same room with me and not think I am awful... Sometimes I want to ask her "remind me again why you don't throw me out?" However, the thing that I realize more and more is that I might be the only one of the two of us that is repulsed at myself. Truthfully, she is repulsed by what happened to me and has compassion for my pain and grief. Never had that before but as well I have never shared anything with anyone either.
I wonder if you could just sit down and say "my shame keeps me from progressing in therapy. I don't feel like I can do emdr until I can get a grip on all the shame I have." See what transpires. Take your post in and share it with your t. You have nothing to loose. Hang in there!

 

[DogwoodTree]

acknowledge that they happened and that someone else in the world can still sit in the same room with me and not think I am awful...

she is repulsed by what happened to me and has compassion for my pain and grief.

I can't even imagine this for myself. When people spend time with me, it seems they must be working really hard to be able to tolerate it. They say that's not the case, but I don't know how to believe them.

I read one article that said compassion and self-compassion are the antidote to shame. Seems like this would be easier if I wasn't so awkward with people. How do I like the unlikeable?

Take your post in and share it with your t.

Reading back over it, I think I stated my feelings about women too strongly...I hope I didn't hurt anyone here...and I don't want to hurt the T, either. So ironically...this thread about shame...I'm too ashamed of it to show it to her. This is part of why I was working with a male T, so I could talk about this stuff and not feel like the T might think I was attacking him. The stuff inside me is awful. No one should have to hear my thoughts.

 

[joeylittle]

It sounds like a rock and a hard place; you are having aversion to the EMDR therapist for reasons connecting to the trauma...and in order to really get past those, you need to work with a trauma processor, such as an EMDR therapist.

Honest question: is it possible for you to tolerate the current discomfort with the EMDR and specifically target the objectification/being seen aspect of your trauma?

Sometimes, it's ok to push through some really awful feelings - especially if your rational brain knows the reason for them, and that you are targeting the source of said feelings.

From what you've written, it seems to me like it might be possible for your rational side to 'overwrite' the traumatized side for a bit, and push through.

Does that sound possible? What kind of scenario would help? (Example: if it were me, I'd want to lighten my work schedule significantly, arrange to do other supportive things around EMDR (like a daily program, or group, something) plus increased support and involvement from my T).

 

[Friday]

It sounds like a rock and a hard place; you are having aversion to the EMDR therapist for reasons connecting to the trauma...and in order to really get past those, you need to work with a trauma processor, such as an EMDR therapist

^^^^
This.

Or -as another possibility- to work with the male EMDR therapist surrounding your issues with women, first, then if you don't feel comfortable doing the sexual issues after having worked with him through the female trauma, working with the female therapist? ((Not knowing if those are 2 different issues, or 1 and the same. I realize if they're the same thing, that just won't work.))

 

[Rumors]

@DogwoodTree. I am female and am not offended in the slightest bit. I think your experience dictates what you feel today. Personally, I haven't been able to work on emdr bc I carry too much shame. I am working through the shame so that I can get to the trauma part. See, if you can't stand to be in the same room with your therapist and talk about what you are targeting bc it is too shameful then you perhaps can't successfully do emdr. Realize that it doesn't mean that memory won't be triggering but what it does mean is that you can at least focus on the trauma instead of wondering why or how your therapist can stand to be in the same room. That ideology undermines the work on the trauma. It's hard. I'm sorry. I wish I could tell you something that would make it go away but in reality you need to work through it not push it away.
I wake up every morning and try and tell myself that I am worthy of love and happiness. I hope you can start repeating that too....

 

[DogwoodTree]

Honest question: is it possible for you to tolerate the current discomfort with the EMDR and specifically target the objectification/being seen aspect of your trauma?

I don't know yet. I hope so.

What kind of scenario would help? (Example: if it were me, I'd want to lighten my work schedule significantly, arrange to do other supportive things around EMDR (like a daily program, or group, something) plus increased support and involvement from my T).

Work is actually a comfort for me, so long as I don't have to have a lot of contact with my mom (whom I work for). I'm about to start an independent project, so that might help.

I can't afford a day program (no health insurance because we just miss the cutoff for any assistance and rates are crazy-high right now). Haven't found a group yet, and I don't do well in groups anyway. For an aspie, the best "reset button" is solitude and time researching the "special interest." I told the new T this at this week's session, and she seemed to pick up on it. She gave me homework (to read The Body Keeps the Score), and my mind has been churning over this idea of how to work on shame, too. Having a focus for my thoughts helps keep me from falling into that deep despair.

work with the male EMDR therapist surrounding your issues with women, first, then if you don't feel comfortable doing the sexual issues after having worked with him through the female trauma, working with the female therapist?

This might be a possibility. I've been thinking about this all day. I think I'm going to keep trying with the female T for a bit and see if I can push through it. She works in the same building as my regular T, so it feels more familiar. I also cringe at the idea of having to tell yet another T my background story so soon. But if I can't get through to a productive place, it's nice to have a backup plan in place.

Personally, I haven't been able to work on emdr bc I carry too much shame. I am working through the shame so that I can get to the trauma part.

I've been doing more reading on what this means...to work through shame. Self-compassion seems to be a primary key. I don't know how to receive compassion from others, but I can feel compassion for myself at times. It's very hard to know when I'm using that as an excuse, vs. when I'm letting myself be human. But I guess it takes practice.

What are you doing to work on shame?

 

[Rumors]

@DogwoodTree
Wel, lol, I am trying to find comatose ion for myself. Much like you I can't accept it from anyone else. As well, the things that bring me shame I try and talk about those with my therapist. Little things at a time. As an example, I am ashamed to talk about my family. It was a fairly dysfunctional household but then I suffered from some CSA on top of my dysfunctional childhood. I kept so many secrets I didn't know or learn what was ok to talk about or not. If I ever talked to anyone about how much my parents flight or my dad drank and it got back around to them, I was a traitor and you don't put your stuff out on the street. Plus, my dad would knock the hell out of me. So, I started talking about the things that went on in my house. At first, it was just awful. I felt like I was terrible for saying them out loud. As time has gone on, I am letting go of some of that because I realize that no way could I ever figure out how to fix my feelings that are connected with those things on my own. They were horrible things to carry on my own. At 3/4 you shouldn't see the things that went on in my house. My biggest motivator though is my kid. I don't want to repeat what I saw and I desperately want to be all that he needs for me to be..... Sending you good thoughts.