Agita Kaput

Policy Enforcement
Fore giveness

Seems to me that the tense of the actual word has everything to do with the present/future and nothing to do with the past.

It's not post giveness or gaveness.

(And Im not suggesting any unnecessary contact or even thought towards a perp - as noted; this had everything to do with you and nothing to do with them.)


And it seems like everyone talks about forgiveness as a necessary step of healing, but is it really?
I think the idea of forgiving people is so that WE can let go of anger and hate and all the other emotions we hold onto when we are wronged. If we can let all of those things go then it can be titled "forgiveness" and not cause ourselves any more pain by carrying it.

For me? Ya - I hope his life has been a total shitshow and he's been somebody's bitch in prison for the last 30 years
But that's me working thru the concept of what happened.
There is no way I could forgive him. Ever.
Forgiveness is between him and god - not me.
My T and I were talking about forgiveness, specifically regarding my dad. He didn't just abuse me, he abused my brother and mother. He abused animals. I don't know if I can forgive that...Like he once killed a family pet.
Idk if I could forgive that. Considering I would die for my pet if necessary (probably more quickly than some family members or definitely for strangers- I know, I'm sorry but that is the truth, the 1st I wouldn't have to think of but the 2nd I would have to tell myself to do). Idk. I do think it wouldn't help my pet to avenge it, wouldn't help me, and would turn me in to them (or bring out my capacity for it).
And it seems like everyone talks about forgiveness as a necessary step of healing, but is it really?
I don't think so. I think it depends how you define forgiveness. I think that the grief that might be behind the unforgiveness does have to be integrated. It will always be a great sorrow, but healed it will not have the power it has without the healing.

I do always think of the last moment(s) of my life- will I care? Will that be the focus? (It's not so strange when having dealt with SI; and the fragility of life/ no warnings for death , sometimes I think it even before I speak, or choose- like it I die today what is the priority to choose now? So yes, I guess it's weird, lol. 🙄 ) What I mean is, I think (my) focus will be on who is living, or what I didn't do. I do think you can try very hard, and some things will still never be resolved til the other side, if there is one. And I think, whether there is another chapter or not, that is ok.

Hugs to you @Muttly . And I am very sorry for the devastation his actions caused to those he should have protected, not devastated and terrorized. 😭💔 And to all whose lives and hearts were irrevocably harmed.

Agita Kaput

Policy Enforcement
Considering I would die for my pet if necessary
Forgive me for floating a thought experimant in the face of a very sick man...

Lets say Rover got rabies. Would he still be a dog... let alone your Rover? How would we think about him biting up the kids in the hood?

I guess it comes down to volition and how to think about the "will." I recently Discovered that my mom was sadistic. And did willfully sadistic things. Obviously there's a lot that would go into considering the notion of forgiveness with respect to her, but one thing is this… My only understanding of willfulness is from my pen Frame of reference , my own rather healthy, well normal at least, Personhood. I think that whole cluster of mind brain interactions we call the will may have been very very unlike normal for her.

Edgar the bug comes to mind. would the idea of forgiveness have any meaning with respect to Edgar?
I'm not sure if I follow.. but if Rover couldn't be cured (and a rabid animal will 'cozy up' to get in bite range), he would have to be Euthanized. But I wouldn't blame Rover, but I wouldn't allow him to bite anyone or myself. Ideally I would have him vaccinated before.

I actually apologize before I kill bugs- though not mosquitos and rarely wasps.

Yes I agree, your mom's thoughts and perception of reality, was horrific. 😭

But I guess after the smoke clears, many of us say (or maybe feel), "Now what?" One thing you do deserve is whatever helps and heals you, if it doesn't harm anyone else. You could harm her, but then the cycle continues. Wanting to, however, is perfectly normal if that's how you feel, I think.

The best I can do is hate the actions than the person, and realize Idk what is in their head/ mind/ heart. But in another way, I am fortunate I don't, I have other battles to face I guess.