News George Pell is convicted! "Like many survivors I have experienced shame, loneliness, depression and struggle.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sideways

Sponsor
Between Pell and the flood of Michael Jackson controversies, I’m finding the media a bit overwhelming atm. Definitely a time where I need to be fussy about what I watch (or even listen to - my radio station interviewed a CSA survivor on my way to the dog park a couple of days ago), because it is getting a bit overwhelming.

Definitely Pell in prison is a huge victory for the victims. But the media frenzy going on is tough. It is a trigger. Choosing to watch anti-intellect tv like Married at First Sight instead while the frenzy passes.
 

Lucycat

Sponsor
I was so shocked when I heard this story on the news as I'd not been aware of it before. I know of friends that will be sorely disappointed and upset - not because he was found guilty, but because they are horrified that the church they believed in could act in such a bad way. They did not want to believe he could be so evil.
 

ms spock

Sponsor
It's a shock for some people. And that is the beginning of a grieving for them for the illusion is shattered.

For some of us well we are terribly happy.

It was a moment of jubilance for me, and I will be asking for an apology from a certain person who told me that there is no way he could be a child rapist. I was most upset by this, as they implied that my background I was projecting. No. I was not. I had met people.
 

Abstract

MyPTSD Pro
I wish I could be shocked and I do feel a lot for those who are. Hope they can look past individual and institutional behaviour if it helps them. I support everyone finding what helps them.

Personally can only feel positivity (joy) in response to this as my less than positive perception can only be improved on. Owning it and accountability is an improvement. I have zero belief in the churches accountability being a choice but will take what is dished as an alternative to not having it dished at all.
A member posted this before and realise it may not be helpful for all but:
Take or leave.
Not meaning that religion has to be this. Support those who find it helpful and a place for that. Individuals and politics are always my target. The potential politics of church. Not church or religion in its best form.
 

anthony

Founder
Millions of dollars from the Catholic faithful have been used to mount a defence for George Pell.

Millions and millions of dollars is being spent to defend the other child rapist priests in Australia and around the world.
Be careful here please. These comments are different than him being found guilty as a child molester. Everyone is entitled to a defense, regardless of outcome.
 
Choosing to watch anti-intellect tv like

Yeah me too but I just turn it off. Because I cannot handle all of that rubbish. I mean what a low standard of behaviour we are immersed in with commercial free to air television??

And... btw I don't care if he spent his first night in custody... as far as I'm concerned he was sent to prison so I don't have to count the days or nights contrary to what broadcasters think I need to know. It's poor reporting and not, in my view NEWS. Obviously nothing much else is going on.

they are horrified that the church they believed in could act in such a bad way. They did not want to believe he could be so evil.

I can understand this.^^ However it's not the whole church. Though let's face it, the Church has a lot of work to do with how they have responded to this whole problem.

Pell himself would have presided (not right word) over many important religious ceremonies, funerals, christening, marriages etc., (I'm sure there are heaps more) and he would have dispensed advise to everyone from small children to people on their death beds... So, now he's been convicted and effectively disgraced himself and his church, where do the living turn to if they did do still believe in the church? And paedophilia isn't confined to the Catholic church!

The Catholic church needs to get a handle on this very quickly because it's not just bad optics, it's bad for business and this is the achilles heel that could make it, as a institution become even less relevant.

But Pell still has his supporters and that's good because criminals becoming martyr's isn't helpful in my view.

Once he's properly sentenced it will interesting to see if he swings around and admits his guilt to avail himself of an earlier release to Parole..
 

ms spock

Sponsor
Be careful here please. These comments are different than him being found guilty as a child molester. Everyone is entitled to a defense, regardless of outcome.

Fair point @anthony.

Maybe comments that perhaps millions of dollars could be spent on the survivors of Child Sexual Assault Victims/Survivors of the Catholic Church as is by spent in the defense of priests who have been moved around many different parishes over the last four decades?

Maybe a better comment would be that there could be a more equitable way of using Catholic monies? I think in the Melbourne agreement that the cap was $40,000 for a survivor seems a bit unequal to over a million dollars being spent on barristers, and legal assistance for one priest?

Perhaps for some people this is seen as a lack of investment of money in order to enable survivors to heal illustrates a laock of commitment to really making a substantive change in the ways of treating the survivors of sexual abuse from priests and such like people from the Catholic Church?

That this disparity of monies spent has caused Catholic families to split into those that see putting money in the plate as funding the defense of priests that later are convicted as child rapist priests and a lack of proper substantive change towards survivors of child sexual assault? That perhaps over a million dollars could be spent on one survivor - if it can be spent on defense - can't it be spent to provide proper trauma therapy for as long as one survivor requires it?

There were many better ways to express what I was saying? Of course!
 

ms spock

Sponsor
I can understand this.^^ However it's not the whole church. Though let's face it, the Church has a lot of work to do with how they have responded to this whole problem.
I'd look in to this a bit more. In one community of the Marist Brother's 23% were found to be sexual predators, it is worth reading the whole of The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Assault. It makes for some sobering reading.

The explicit cover ups are worth reading about as well, as is talking to those who stood up for children being sexual abuse by priests, deacons, nuns, etc and lost their their families, their high school connections, their church, their jobs and their whole communities. Listening to those that actually stood up in the 3-4 decades before the Royal Commission illuminates where wholesale cover ups took place by whole communities of Catholic communities, lay and clergy alike is kind of really depressing.

And what is going on now? Does anyone really think it has stopped? That is rather naive, and also out of touch. I am definitely out of the loop, by choice, and even I hear which schools not to go to teach because their is a problem with X priests and Y nuns. I wouldn't teach in a Catholic school, myself, but it is not exactly as if it has been resolved to a reasonable level yet.
 
Last edited:

Friday

Moderator
In the US you have 2 choices as far as mounting a legal defense
- The State can pay (free for the accused, outside of whatever taxes they pay that contributes to providing free legal defense for anyone accused of a crime.)
- The accused can pay for their own defense.

If the trial had happened here, I’d be glad the Church took responsibility for one of it’s employees and paid their legal fees... rather than shoving them off on the tax payers -all of us, and his victims- shouldering the burden. If Oz has similar laws, I’d think long and hard about whether you’d prefer for your taxes to be paying for his defense, rather than he paying for his own.

Maybe comments that perhaps millions of dollars could be spent on the survivors of Child Sexual Assault Victims/Survivors of the Catholic Church as is by spent in the defense of priests who have been moved around many different parishes over the last four decades?
Trying to dictate where someone else spends their own money (individual or organization), ...don’t spend it there! Spend it over here!... has me waving cheerfully at you as a Card Carrying Member of the Control Freak’s Club. It’s also absolutely terrible boundaries. Where the Catholic Church chooses to spend its money is it’s own business. Not yours or mine.

On the upside? The CC already spends faaaaar more than you’re suggesting, on exactly what you want them to spend it on.

In the US alone the Catholic Church already spends over 4 billion dollars a year on charity. Hundreds of millions are spent on counseling services, victims services, sexual assault crisis teams, etc. (of course hundreds of millions are also spent on unrelated issues; medical, poverty, refugee, natural disaster, disability, education, etc.)

In In 2010, Catholic Charities USA reported expenditures of between $4.2 billion and $4.4 billion, according to the Chronicle of Philanthropy, which publishes an annual list of the 400 biggest charities in the United States,

World wide, of course, that number is much larger.

So the good news is they’re already doing what you want them to be doing, in much larger scale.

Now... more good news... just because at present you don’t have any right to say where they should or should not spend their money (no more than our sisters or neighbors have the right to dictate our finances to us) ..that doesn’t mean you could never have the right. If you cared enough about having a say in how the church spends its money you could always compete to become a member of their board of trustees that oversees their charitable & business expenditures; or sit on the board of one of their thousand or so international charities; or via another direction entirely attempt to change the laws that govern how they’re allowed to spend their money. These are all highly competitive positions, as a great many people want to have a say in how those vast sums of money are spent; or to be a governing voice writing the laws legislating how other people spend their money (both public and private funds), but competition is healthy. So it’s always something you could work towards, if it’s something you really want.
 
Last edited:
If Oz has similar laws, I’d think long and hard about whether you’d prefer for your taxes to be paying for his defense, rather than he paying for his own.

We do have similar laws. All defendants are entitled to representation. So it can be paid by Legal aid (Government pays. Taxpayer funded) or, privately funded.

Pell has his supporters who contributed their own money to pay for his defence. So it didn't come from the church or the taxpayer. A bargain I believe. :)

That this disparity of monies spent has caused Catholic families to split into those that see putting money in the plate as funding the defense of priests that later are convicted as child rapist priests and a lack of proper substantive change towards survivors of child sexual assault?

Hmm I've not heard of anyone at any church disputing where the money on the plate goes... ever! Even recently too. Money from the plate doesn't fund legal defence teams. It would need a lot of plates. :sorry:

That perhaps over a million dollars could be spent on one survivor -

Look we all like money but don't be deceived NO amount of money can compensate for the trauma some survivor's have endured and their lifelong struggle.

I've never met anyone that felt a whole lot better for getting a compo payout. It doesn't resolve the problem and doesn't heal the trauma. Not really. Life may get easier for them in many respects but it doesn't heal a dam thing. But I also acknowledge that victims receiving a lump sum might do something positive with it. Idk pure speculation on my behalf.

However if it's the only thing left when all else has been broken, taken, destroyed and nothing else can be redeemed I guess it becomes a valuation thing. I'm uncomfortable with that. I think we, as a society can do so much better.

I think more should be spent on prevention, treatment and less emphasis on lump sums.

I'd look in to this a bit more.
The explicit cover ups are worth reading about as well,
as is talking to those who stood up for children being sexual abuse

Thanks :)

because their is a problem with X priests and Y nuns.

If "there is a problem with anyone" in an educational or hell, any setting it should be reported. Not avoided and rumoured about.

This is partly the reason why the various religious and other institutions were not held to account sooner. People need to speak up not whisper amongst themselves.

It's bloody risky so one really should have their powder dry before they say anything.

it is not exactly as if it has been resolved to a reasonable level yet.

Of course not. Btw there is NO reasonable level for child sexual abuse.. None. Zilch. Zero.

It's not just the Catholic church and it isn't just religion. Paedophilia, abuse etc., isn't confined by social boundaries.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top