Going Back After Isolation

[Meadowsweet]

There is obviously something that you like about this friend to want to rekindle the friendship.

I first met this woman on a website, where she turned up writing a thread about how this man can have told her such lies to get her into bed. As I got to know her, I discovered that she regularly used dating sites to meet men, and felt a failure everytime she was treated like crap. She got annoyed with me often, because instead of going aww, poor thing, like other people, I would try to help her see that she was taking risks and putting herself in danger.

I empathise with her, and over the years I came to care for her as I would like someone to care for me. I stood up to that group because I was too paranoid, but I understand her neediness for them. And after I'd walked away from the last of them, several months later, she sent me a Christmas card, and that felt really good.

But then she went on to try and get me to see how I'd pushed everyone away and I should feel guilty about it. And in a pre-diagnosed mess, I desperately tried to explain the things that had happened and the danger I felt I was in. So I looked crazy, while the people who covered the attack up apparently just didn't want to talk about it anymore, this is something she saw as the having 'moved on' and there's me not moving on at all.

In the end, I had to leave her, because I saw that I was just looking like a crazy woman. And while there is part of me that would dearly like her to understand that my despite my inability to explain, my actions to walk away from people were quite sensible, I am always in danger of looking like a crazy woman.

I got back in touch just to say hi, because she was on my mind a lot. And she replied saying that her son was ill and she was going through a hard time. So I've stayed, because I do feel that connection with her, and i care about her deeply.

What is it you are looking for in your renewed association with this person? Why do you feel like you have to go there? Validation? Or something else?

The explanation above gives a bit more information about our friendship. There is always a strong part that would love everyone in that group to accept that what went on was wrong and for that validation. And I walk away from these conversations because I'm trying to have a friendship with this woman, without putting her in the middle of what went on. I am doing well at the moment to resist the part of me that wants all the questions answered. And there might be a time when I can't cope with resisting the urge to as her.

But at the moment, by saying when the conversation needs to stop, and by taking time out, that is working. But she of course doesn't realise just how much energy it takes me to do that for her.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Hi Meadowsweet.

Just checking as I am not sure I am understanding this properly. Do you mean wanting her to understand your feelings or do you mean telling her you don't want to discuss the issue with her?

I have already decided and taken action to not discuss the people of the past with her. That's what I said in my opening post. I am asking how to approach her when I go back.

 

[Abstract]

Oh gosh Meadowsweet, just thinking now that you were possibly meaning that my response implied you were expecting too much. It never entered my mind that that is what you meant.

If that is the case then you are entirely incorrect and I don't believe understanding and support is ever expecting too much. Especially if others watched you being victimised.

I understood that you placed that boundary and were looking at how to handle it from here on and was partly replying to what people were telling you here too. I meant it in the way of having a definite long term boundary on top of the immediate short term one it seems you already put down.

So to be clear from what you said at the start I don't think I would feel safe that she wouldn't bring up the subject again without me addressing it again. What I meant is that if you truly think she is not a safe bet (you are saying you have already decided that) then I would make a statement that implies a continued, long term avoidance of the topic. If you decide that you do want to attempt to hold onto this friendship that is. As others have mentioned (and I agree) there are many reasons why it may not be good for you to do so. You have to decide if she is important enough to make the effort.

If it was me I would say something such as, "you know how I said it was better for us not discuss *those people* and *those *circumstances*? I have decided that it is best for us to avoid these altogether on a continued basis. I hope that is OK with you."

If she seems upset then you can say that you value her friendship and think this is the best way to protect it.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Me personally I wouldn't rekindle the relationship... precisely because the person is still in contact/attached to the others who were involved in this attack. ?

I agree simply because I avoid triangulation. I hate to throw innocent people overboard, but it's not worth it to me to have to a) defend my position b) tip toe around the issue of the third party we have in common or c) question this person for being associated with those who do such horrible things. But hey, that's just me and I'm basing my opinion on my situation. People don't like it when you throw them overboard for their associations, however, we are all judged in one way or another by the company we keep. (I mean that in the sense of I would question why someone actively chooses to keep people in their life who attacked a friend. I'm not saying it's ultimatum time, choose sides or else, but they made their decision, I've made mine to stay out of the situation as much as I can)

Sorry for the rambling.

 

[mamachick]

Dear Meadowsweet,
After reading your last post I have a much clearer understanding of the situation. You are a very compassionate and empathetic person. I realize that without ever meeting you in person and from the nature of your posts.

Please know that whatever you decide, I will be supportive of, not that my opinion makes any difference. Knowing the circumstances better, I just wonder if any contact is really good for you. There is a desire for her to understand your decision and for you not to look crazy-I do get that. I have found that sometimes when I try to pull someone else out of a hole, I have ended up being pulled into the hole myself. I see your desire as both wanting to enlighten her for her own safety, and for her to understand and validate you.

If she wanted to , was capable of, or had a desire to understand, I think she would have done so by now. She may lack the ability from the description that you have given of her. Some people will never give us that validation and we can waste energy trying to get it. Letting go does not mean that you have to stop caring for the person. One thing that I have found that has helped me when I am missing the contact with a person that is not good for me, is to write a letter to them and never send it. They will always be in my heart and I cant stop that. Time passes and then I think of them and yearn to contact. Sometimes the content may be explaining hurts, making my own amends, or whatever comes up.

Now Im going to sound crazy. If it helps writing the letter and you want to go further, you could write a letter from her to yourself-accepting, validating, and understanding your position. This is an exercise similar to Gestalt empty chair-where the person sits in one chair and shares their hurts, then switches chairs and plays the role of the other person. If you can come to imagine the other person saying something, for example-in this case (I am sorry meadowsweet, I did not understand all of.......I am not as strong as you.....cannot stand up to the group....). This can help with forgiveness and closure.

If none of this is helpful, please disregard and know that I hope I have not offended you. I just dont want to see anyone have the power to make you feel crazy. I hear what you have done for her. What has she done to enhance the quality of your life? I ask this because I have been around too many people that have not been good for me and learned to isolate. Coming out of isolation-I am asking myself-"What does _______do to enhance my life"? It doesnt have to be anything big, may just be that they make me laugh.

This is only my opinion and not meant to be offensive in any way. You know what is best for you.

Brat

 

[Abstract]

I just read your last reply and I have some thoughts if that is OK. Please feel free to disregard.

and felt a failure everytime she was treated like crap.

she went on to try and get me to see how I'd pushed everyone away and I should feel guilty about it.

I strongly suspect from what you share here that she is at least a bit codependent. More likely significantly. I don't mean that in a judgemental way. Many of us have had these tendencies. What I realised was that it was extremely difficult to start being able to take care of my needs and feelings when I was with others who did not yet understand how unhealthy certain ways of looking at things were as they would push me in the opposite direction to the one I needed to go.

I think her attempting to tell you that you should feel guilty for pushing the others away is entirely an indication of her not being able to see that boundaries and taking care of ourselves are important and right. The problem with this is that even if you dont discuss this particular incident other situations are going to happen where this viewpoint will filter through and for me that was very unhelpful when I was trying to develop good boundaries and assertiveness skills.

It would be wonderful if she went for a bit of therapy as I am sure it would help her a lot.

this is something she saw as the having 'moved on'

This is also a bit of concern as she not able to see that some people don't have remorse and what that indicates. Again I think it hints at some personal boundary issues she may have.

i care about her deeply.

You obviously both care very deeply about each other and that can be very painful when other things impose themselves on the relationship.

there might be a time when I can't cope with resisting the urge to as her.

I think this is totally understandable and your right. To me the reason to avoid should primarily be about what you need to protect yourself. It sounds like you are definitely not in a place to able to cope with insensitive or unhelpful responses from her at present. If you feel you are strong enough at some point to be able to hear things that will not be what you want to hear then that might be the time to do it. I have learned to be very careful as doing it from a place of vulnerability can be devastating especially when it is linked to a traumatic event. And especially when the person involved has their own issues that make it unlikely they will respond in a helpful way.

Depending on what she is capable of, you may be able to explain things to her and get her to see things more clearly but be prepared that at the very least it is likely to be a process. Personally I would tread very carefully. It seems she is still connected with the offending group.

how much energy it takes me to do that

And this is enormously important. For me I realised I just did not have the energy to deal with PTSD and anyone that did not fit in with my values or my recovery. There are some I kept, like some family members, but I had to lay down very firm boundaries and find some acceptance of the limitations.

You need to think of what is important to you and the type of friendships and relationships you want in your life and if this girl is really someone who fits in with that. You need to think what her continued connection and support of the group says about her as a person and if that fits in with your values and what you want in your life.

I also wanted to say that I think some things aren't what I call isolation at all and are rather just good boundaries.

PS. this:

silently hoping

was in response to post 6.

 

[wicked child]

Thank you. How do you think I could say that without sounding derogative of her?

I would say [ her name here] I don't want to discuss this with you-

Because I feel that you are not really interested in helping me/////// Because I feel that you are not sympathetic to my needs.

So lets talk about the weather.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Thank you for all the replies. I spoke to my therapist today and explained why I was anxious after my friend mentioned the person, It was very validating regarding my caution about the group. But I forgot to ask about this friendship.

So I think if I do go back (and I am undecided now), I feel more confident about putting that boundary in place to protect myself.

 

[mamachick]

Meadowsweet-Never let anybody make you feel like you are crazy. You are not. We all have things to deal with and do not need anyone putting gas on our fire.

 

[Powder]

Meadowsweet,

I can also relate to the issues with feeling like you are losing all your old friends and social connections due to dealing head on the trauma and the perpetrators.

It's not an easy path, with no clear lines yet for me either. In some cases, I have finally disclosed and felt validated. In some cases I got support without actual/direct validation and the person still wants to be in relationship with the abusers because they were close before I came into the picture. It really sucks. But I can only control myself and try to know my own heart. I try to sort the person's motives. I can't take away the good feelings they have in association with my mother who was sometimes very kind to them in the past. I don't wish to rip that away (even if I could). But I also hate seeing them go on as if nothing happened...so I dropped facebook.

I found it was like I was seeing stuff I just don't need in my head. It's none of my business and I don't know what to do about seeing posts. Minor things hurt like major things.

I guess time will tell with some relationships what they are to us. And really, most people are just sort of not close enough to stick your neck on the block for. What are we really loosing is the sense of "being a friend" more than an actual real friend. It's hard to deal with that, for me.

I guess that's what the feeling is for me with this. What is the feeling for you, like what precisely is at stake? Good question to ask in each case. Each relationship is different and does different things for us.

Hope it turns out for the best for you; the not knowing is rough.

Muse