Guns in America

[Linda]

If someone breaks into my house it is a matter of an honor for me to put them out even if I have to give my life for that. Same is for attacking my family members.
Again: I NEED to have a fire extinguisher, a first aid kit, a hurricain kit, and a gun even knowing that fires, accidents, natural disasters and attacks are rare.

 

[Claire]

do you mean kill them? Sorry, what do you mean 'put them out'?

 

[Marilyn_S]

We all have varying oppinions on this. I can understand both sides. We must understand each others personal thoughts and feelings and be careful not to hurt one another. We will never convince each other the opposing views. It is a matter of emotions and thoughts built up over both culture and personal experience.
Clair, I hope you do not believe that just because my husband owns fire arms he is an unstable paranoid person. That is hurtful to me. I feel like both my community and my country have been insulted. When I explained why we carry guns I never said people or nations who do not carry guns are stupid or naive. I only told of my own knowledge. I respect the UK. My country would not be here if it were not for the colonization brought forth by England. England is like a former parent nation to us in which we have a great deal of respect as our alleys. We also greatly respect our alleys the Austrailians.
Anthony, I do greatly understand your concern about unstable people owning firearms. It is a travesty when a gun owner commits suicide. Again I say, I wish this were a world where there were no guns. I understand, I really do. But I also understand Linda, Wayne and the others who have expressed their ideas and beliefs. And I believe if I am not mistaken that what Linda means about "Honor" is that if some crazy person broke into her house to rape her she would want to be able to protect herself and not have to be violated by a perpetrator because the police where too slow at showing up. The police here in the United States always shows up after the fact when a person's life has already been violated. I care about your feelings Claire and I do hope nothing I have said has hurt you or made you feel angry at me. I just want us all to be at peace with one another. You asked a question and folks answered the best they knew how. Perhaps there will be others from the USA who would believe more as you do. Do not feel alone in your oppinion regarding gun ownership. Many share your view and their ideas and thoughts are just as lagitimate as those on the side of gun ownership.

Love & Care
Marilyn S.

 

[becvan]

And the criminal's life worths nothing in the country where everyone can make enough money for food!

Normally, I have nothing to do with these "political" threads; however, I had to comment on that one line.

Linda, look around this board. There are many members, that live in the States, that are starving. Everyone can make enough money? I beg to differ. If that was the case, you would live in paradise. Frankly, I'm shocked such a statement would come from someone who suffers from PTSD and knows firsthand what can befall a person and the absolute lack of support when it does. How many of those said criminals do you think have a mental illness? Because most of them do.

Society itself creates the criminal and the criminal act by it's lack of properly caring for, understanding and creating attainable opportunities for survival.

I really could care less about the gun debate. However blanket statements based on ignorance of mental illness and how society creates their own criminals and perpetrates crimes, will get me to reply.

bec

 

[Marilyn_S]

I have said what my community believes and what my thoughts are, now I will say what is in my heart. I love all human beings regardless of how good/bad/honorable/ or evil they are. In my heart, even if someone where pointing a gun at me I do not think I could kill them because Jesus said, "If someone slaps you on the cheek turn the other cheek so that they may slap it as well ... do good to those who hate you ... if someone steals your cloak give them your coat ... " This is not a sermon, I do not expect anyone to believe this way. This is just what is on my heart. Every human being alive is a treasure, a unique individual treasure created by an awesome creator. I grieve at all lives lost to travesty. Those young men that flew the jets into the building in New York, they were so young and so programmed. They must have felt they were doing the right thing. How horrible, how misguided they were. I just have said all this to say, I respect you Anthony and Clair. Though I disagree with some of your oppinion, I respect and care about you and understand where you are coming from.

 

[Claire]

Marilyn S: I'm sorry if I have insulted you or your country, I didn't mean to. I certainly did not mean any of this to be taken personally in anyway. I agree we do have massively different opinions and we'll have to agree to differ! Thats fine, I am happy to do that. A healthy debate is what I wanted here and I think we should all be able to argue our point although anything like this on a forum is difficult. No-one can hear tone of voice or clarify a point as you would in a conversation. I was interested to hear yours and others points of view. We all come from very different cultures and even though we all (on this thread) speak English I do have trouble understanding everything that has been written which was why I asked for some phrases to be explained. It seems we are similar and very different in lots of ways. I agree totally with what say you feel in your heart and what you say in your last thread. I also think I am very fortunate to live in a place that is a lot more peaceful than some.

Claire

 

[Linda]

Do not care of anything, but if someone with no matter what problem enters my house in order to rob it or to hurt me or my family - i will kill that jerk.

 

[Linda]

If I had offended anyone - sorry. I apologise.
Probably should not enter any discussions.

 

[anthony]

Everyone has opinions... and I don't see anyone trying to swing others to their opinion, that is not what politics or debate is so much about, but more to put thoughts out and see what returns. Attack the topic, yes; attack a person, no. Politics attack one another, we are not politics; we are debating though, which is healthy.

So... the "fore" guns are just not putting forward a convincing argument to myself to warrant the use of guns for protection as yet. I want to understand, and let me explain further on Linda's own statement.

seatbelts in the car, abeying stop signs on the road, locking my house door before going away, shutting down candles before go to bed, keeping a fire extinguisher and a first aid kit in my house and in my car, and so on

1. Seatbelts purpose is to stop you killing yourself.
2. Stopping at stop signs stop you killing yourself, and killing others.
3. Putting out candles saves your life, by not burning you alive whilst sleeping.
4. Locking your house helps stop others killing you, stealing your possessions.
5. Fire extinguisher puts out fire on your possessions.
6. First aid kit helps mend peoples basic medical needs.
7. Guns have one purpose, to kill.

Hmmmm.... big difference here between the other factors raised compared to what a guns purpose is designed?

 

[Linda]

Protecting myself from the fire or a natural disaster has no difference from protecting myself from the enemy.
OK, I am not changing my opinion but do not feel like discussing that now.

 

[Marilyn_S]

Anthony,

Guns are for other reasons besides killing people. For goodness sakes! Ever heard of deer hunting? Ever heard of wild turkey hunting? They are sports just like soccer, foot ball, boxing ect. Are hand guns needed for these things? NO! Are machine guns or the likes needed for hunting, NO. But people should be able to hunt for sport. It is not just about protection. I would note advise anybody with PTSD to have a gun just because of the nature of the illness. We here in Missouri are incouraged by the conservation department as gun owners to have a tag to hunt deer because their over population will cause their eventual demise. Ever had deer jerkey? Yum! Yum! Deer on the grill? It is the same way with turkey. Wild turkey, Yum! Yum! One could not very easily hunt turkey without a shot gun. Are there accidents that result in fatalities, yes and that is very unfortunate. However, there are also accidents with snow boarding, surfing, and archery that result in fatalities.

You are right, a gun is for the purpose of killing, but not necessarily just people.

Another example: Pig farmers have guns to do the kill of the pig. This is for their own safety as pigs are very big animals and prone to violence. There are private, non corporate bovine farmers that also use a pistol to do the kill. Out in the country where I live, occasionally a gun is required to kill a ravid animal to protect other people from rabies. They are close to impossible to trap because they are not interested in food. A gun is the only way to kill them safely. Animals that are prone to this are skunks, badgers, racoons, oppossums, feril dogs, feril cats, and armadillos.

Now I will focus on my sweeties protective side and make a humble attempt to explain why he owns guns for protection from criminals. America is a very vastly rural populated country. Most people are not protected by police. And even in the cities, the police show up after the fact. However, we rural folks have only the county deputy sherrif to protect us from criminals. Now I've lived in this area for 7 years and no one has ever had to use a gun to protect themselves. This is in part due to the fact that the criminals know we have guns and we watch out for one another. My neighbors watch out for us, we watch out for our neighbors. Their is alot of violence in the United States, but if you will examine the rate of crime in the UK and Australia you will discover that as soon as the gun bans were put in place as law criminal activity increased substantially and continues to increase. This is just a thought, but perhaps this is because the criminals in the UK and Australia know that law abiding citizens have no guns and it is free reign.
In Oklahoma USA when the conceal carry law was passed, criminal activity decreased by an alarming percentage. Vermont has always had conceal carry and they have the lowest crime rate of any state in the United States.

Anthony, I understand why you hate guns. What you have seen, heard, and even smelled. No person should have to endure such horrible things and I am so sorry that you did.

People do commit suicide with guns. Most successful suicides in the USA are with guns. Some of these guns are even legally owned. However, I will equate this to the abortion issue in the United States. I believe abortion is a travesty. However, I also know that the young women who get them are not selfish evil people. They are people who feel desparation and feel they have no other alternative at the time. Therefore, in order to keep abortion safe, it must remain legal on a limited basis at least. Back alley abortions kill young women. It is sad that people use guns to take their own lives. But if they did not have a gun they would use a rope, if they did not have a roap they would use a knife, if they did not have a knife they would use pills... Guns do not kill people. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE! More women in the United States die from their own husband beating them to death with their bare hands than women being killed by guns. I firmly believe that gun laws should be greater inforced by the USA BATF. This is why so many individuals acquire guns illeagally. It is the control of illeagal gun owner ship that I believe should be the focus.

As I have said, I could never kill a person with a gun or any thing else. But I could kill a deer.

 

[anthony]

Protecting myself from the fire or a natural disaster has no difference from protecting myself from the enemy.

What enemy? I was unaware their was a classified enemy existence within the United States that required citizens to arm themselves. Could someone please refer me to the documentation of this enemy, so I know who to look out for if I ever visit the USA?

Guns are for other reasons besides killing people. For goodness sakes! Ever heard of deer hunting?

Yes, I am well aware. So then, does everyone in the USA who carry guns use them to hunt? No, as you stated here: "Are hand guns needed for these things? NO! Are machine guns or the likes needed for hunting, NO. But people should be able to hunt for sport."

Are there accidents that result in fatalities, yes and that is very unfortunate.

Difference between an accident occuring whilst deer hunting vs. someone threatening another person with a knife, the person threatened pulling out a gun and shooting them dead. That is not an accident. Even in a court of law, having a knife pulled on you and threatened with it is not justification to pull the trigger of a gun unless that person physically attacks you with that knife, generally wounding you atleast. If a person didn't respond with force, would that person then simply rob a person and take their possessions vs. a life being taken that cannot be replaced?

You are right, a gun is for the purpose of killing, but not necessarily just people.

Yep, so what are all the citizens justifications for hand guns then? Most aren't sport shooters!!!

America is a very vastly rural populated country. Most people are not protected by police. And even in the cities, the police show up after the fact. However, we rural folks have only the county deputy sherrif to protect us from criminals. Now I've lived in this area for 7 years and no one has ever had to use a gun to protect themselves. This is in part due to the fact that the criminals know we have guns and we watch out for one another.

Now, I partly agree with this, partly could disagree. Generally even here in Australia farmers have guns, and you really have to be quite ignorant to think a farmer wouldn't have a gun considering they hunt vermin animals etc. Farmers here are an exception, and yes they have licensed weapons. I don't begrudge people have weapons period, I cannot see the point of people trying to justify weapons if the only reason they have them is for self protection. A firearm for farming / live stock purposes is one thing, protection another. Australian country is vast, no doubt, just as the USA, hence most farmers have guns and would use them if someone tried to attack them. Same here as in the USA though, rarely happens because people know farmers have guns.

Their is alot of violence in the United States, but if you will examine the rate of crime in the UK and Australia you will discover that as soon as the gun bans were put in place as law criminal activity increased substantially and continues to increase.

I would disagree with this actually, and not sure where your getting your figures from, but crime in most Australian cities has decreased / remained the same in conjunction with population increase. Sydney has increased, hence Sydney is the main city in which migrates also populate, hence why Australia has pretty much stopped all immigration until such time as migrants calm down, learn the Australian way, and begin adopting it instead of bringing their ways to a country and mixing them to create chaos.

This is just a thought, but perhaps this is because the criminals in the UK and Australia know that law abiding citizens have no guns and it is free reign.

Not sure about the UK, but Australia has a per capita lower crime rate than the USA does, and we aren't armed here. Go figure that one out? Why? Because the way of life here is more relaxed, where it is not bread into people to have guns or to generally have little respect for life itself. If someone is murdered in Australia, anywhere, it makes headlines around the entire country of near 30 million. The US has a much higher death rate per capita once again to Australia, hence not a good comparison to make IMHO.

Crime in Australia is petty stuff, ie. break and enter, graffiti, vandalism, etc... not the shit that goes on in the USA, murder, abduction, etc. When one of those things occur in Australia, it makes National news around the country because we have such low rates of the high crime. Our rates are petty things that do not affect life, nor generally of such a serious nature. Big difference between social lifestyles.

I don't really have an issue with guns in general though Marilyn, that is what your missing and misinterpreting. What I do not understand is why any country accepts any citizen to own a gun for the purpose of protection only. Doesn't that say something about the country overall if the political arena is telling their citizens to arm themselves against themselves?

Yes, suicide is suicide, and not an issue with me. If someone wants to do it, they will do it the fastest method they know how.

PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE! More women in the United States die from their own husband beating them to death with their bare hands than women being killed by guns. I firmly believe that gun laws should be greater inforced by the USA BATF. This is why so many individuals acquire guns illeagally. It is the control of illeagal gun owner ship that I believe should be the focus.

So, once again, Doesn't that say something about the country overall if the political arena is telling their citizens to arm themselves against themselves; or that people need to arm themselves against themselves in general? People do not kill people alone, guns help, sorry to say. If a person had a knife, a piece of timber, etc etc, they are items that are not so easily used to kill another person, hence it usually is avoided. Guns however, far to easy to do nothing more than squeeze a trigger, hence the end result is often death or severe injury. Guns certainly do contribute to killing people, its not just the person. That is a very outdated logic.