Relationship He Still Calls Me "honey"...

[May1321]

Hi Sisu -

T is 29. He returned from Iraq also in 2004. He lights up when he talks about the person he got to be in the military - "a badass"... he would've stayed in had he not gotten blown up and damaged his spine. Just hearing his pride for being a soldier, and as much respect I have for soldiers just fills me with joy for getting to know him... The flip-side is I also know he saw and did some very dark/not normal to every day life sort of things.

I asked him the other day if he believed in God. He told me he believes in a "higher being" but doesn't believe they have any control over what we do on earth. I know this is a part of the darkness and evil he's seen, but it is so sad to hear him say these things.

He has refused meds... and I know part of that support to do so originally came from me. It's a scary thought, but the more he tells me and the more I educate myself on it, I realize that he may need some encouraging support to do so in order to conquer the proper therapy he needs.

The VA has pulled him out of the constant therapy and group sessions/outtings. His one therapist has given him two weeks away from the VA and appointments and told him to do the meditation exercises and keep track/journal on this site called [DLMURL]http://www.mindfullness-solutions.com[/DLMURL]. He wasn't able to access the site but it is sort of a meditation driven way to healing ones self on their own. Once he's completed that, he is supposed to go back where this therapist will see him maybe once a week... not on such a grueling schedule as he has been on.

Talking about this last night, I told him that it sounds like he's getting the boot for non-participation in the sessions he's had. I already know he hasn't been opening up. Unfortunately, they are forcing some stuff with him just as his family is seriously pushing him to go to therapy and he "has to go in order to qualify for the PTSD disability" that just doesn't work with him. I cautioned him carefully with my opinion that if he doesn't start cooperating some - or giving a little - he's not going to get anything in return and may not even qualify for the PTSD in the end which would have wasted all this time.

I don't know how much sinks in with him. The only thing that seems to be sinking in with him right now is their diagnoses' of him. Of course, other times maybe he's listening and digesting it but it isn't on the surface.

I feel like I can be fairly open and even opinionated with him, and you are probably getting to a good place too with "J". I do ask permission sometimes, though. And it's really good communicating skills I've been practicing in general I think... to really think before I speak.

I read an older post of yours that talked about "casual" dating. I guess in some unspoken or clarified way, that is exactly what we are doing right now. I hadn't really thought of it that way and I go back and forth on whether I'm really helping him, or hindering him, by being his confidant. Right now I just feel like being "still" vs. "reactionary" - like I used to be more in my younger relationships - is best right now... I don't feel I'm being taken advantage of and I do feel I have control. I do "love" this person, but am accepting that my heart may not always feel so great and I think it is dissipating some... the further we stand away from each other. It takes time. LOTS of time, for anything to work itself out and I have my own stuff and he has A LOT of stuff to work out. If, like you, I can share some of my hurdles in life such as with my parents and those boundaries... maybe in some way it will inspire him to take a stand. He is a competitor so I know a part of him does thing "If she can do it, so can I"... positive influence... that's all we can really be right now for our sufferers.

More (((hugs))) :)

 

[sisu]

Sometimes I feel like we are teetering on a fence. One side is friendship only and the other side is an amazing relationship that we both know can happen and both want it, but it's still on hold because of fear. His mostly ~ fear he isn't good enough and fear I won't like him if I know his whole truth. But there is reason for hope because he is starting to share his truth and he has found that it doesn't scare me. And my truth has become less than that polished tiara he thought I wore....my therapy has made me aware of so many things that I stuffed into my boots and never thought about or dealt with. Now we are both letting each other see the real us. And guess what?? It's still okay.

I have read lots of stories on here about others who have been verbally abused by their sufferer, but that has NEVER been the case for me. If anything, he is too complimentary at times. The only thing I struggle with is when he shuts down....won't respond to text or phone calls. However, even this has improved. I didn't hear from him all last weekend. I was busy so I texted him on Sunday about 11am, no response. Then I got home later and texted him about 3pm, no response. When I called and still couldn't get him about 7pm, I started freaking out. I texted again and he finally responded about 715pm....the text read..."Sophie was killed" (his dog). I texted my sorrow and asked how....he texted back "car". He ended up calling the next morning to talk about and we got together Monday night, but in the past even my plea for a response would have gone un-noticed. He did respond even when he was so sad and depressed about his dog. (oops, tangent).

Uh, let's see...where was I before I interrupted myself. Oh yes. The truth is we ARE friends, good friends, possibly best friends. He still slips and calls me babe on occasion and still says he loves me (but not all the time like when we were together). He has said a few times that if we lived in a perfect world he would have married me by now. (See so much grey!). I think I NEED to hear all of his truth and I think he NEEDS to tell me and know that he can trust me. Before when we were together we weren't "real". Yes, we did all the loving things and were a happy couple and talked about future and fluffy stuff like that. About our lives and about our kids (I have two and he has four), about what car to drive, etc. But we never really got "real" and exposed all of those raw and real things that I think are necessary to talk about with someone who has combat ptsd. He and I both wore masks to try to be the person we thought the other one wanted us to be. Well, there are no masks now and it feels good.

So maybe that is the key...maybe it's not. But I think that trust is hard for most of us anyway. Those with PTSD it seems to be even harder. I don't know...I tend to ramble and get my thoughts written out. Still learning every day!

 

[sisu]

"J" is 45 and was in the Army from 1988 and came home from his last deployment in January 2004. He was diagnosed with combat PTSD in 2004 and is 100% mentally disabled with the VA. He has been trying to medically retire from the Army for 3 1/2 years and may finally get that accomplished this year. (fingers crossed). He takes the meds the VA prescribes but does not participate in any group or individual therapy except his visit with the psych doc every three months to re-up his med prescription. He has tried therapy before but didn't like it. However I think he would benefit from it and with me going to therapy it has opened up that avenue of conversation and he seems open.
(((((Hugs!)))))

 

[May1321]

I don't mind the ramble :)

It seems like you've also done a lot of growing over the past 4 years (Wow! I keep reading posts from 2008 and can't believe that was that long ago).

Sometimes I feel like we are teetering on a fence. One side is friendship only and the other side is an amazing relationship

One of the hardest things - back and forth - for me has been the beginning and end to yet another "relationship"... We talk some about this because though I've dated a couple of guys here and there, it took a lot for me to open myself up again after walking away from a toxic relationship with my ex of 2 years 3 years ago.

We're at a point right now where I don't think there is even fear... unless that is the major determining factor... he just doesn't think he is good enough to be in a relationship and the more I think about it... I am not ready to be in a relationship. We both owe it to ourselves to really know what it is like to be in a relationship with ourselves 'without' looking. He says that is what he is doing, and it is definitely what I'm trying to do... yet we still have each other... me being "the closest thing he has to a girlfriend".

Like you mentioned earlier, this relationship has its +s and -s as it catapulted me into therapy and kind of finally got me to settle the $h!t I was avoiding for the last 3 years "baggage"... I feel somewhat liberated and I know that "T" too has started his path of healing brought on by us.

A big part of this for me is really solidifying what I want in my life as well as a partner. Fortunately/Unfortunately our kids are our pets. At this time in my life, I don't know any more if I want to take that venture. I have to remind myself that I am still young... and mentally (being a boy - no offense to the men :)) he still is very young.

Your story in itself calms me in that I hope we are able to be just as good of friends down the road in the future (without it causing any problems.)

Darn that grey area! ;)

 

[May1321]

He has tried therapy before but didn't like it. However I think he would benefit from it and with me going to therapy it has opened up that avenue of conversation and he seems open.

OOOH! I hope to hear more of this. It makes my heart very happy to hear what a positive influence it appears you are for him!!

"T" still doesn't understand all the reasons I go to therapy... to tell the truth... I started because I knew I was going to have to communicate on a normal level with him but also the reactions I was having - I couldn't tell if it was real or some form of PTS from my past relationship. That first session was such a blur... she diagnosed me with some sort of anxiety and depression. We haven't quite gotten to the bottom of all the reasons I have reactions... I know it goes back farther than just relationships, but it has helped some as "T" asks me questions and all of a sudden I'm able to remember 'Oh yea...'. He thinks I'm an angel/princess this huge ray of sunshine. For the first time in my life, I can actually say I 70% of the time feel like that myself. This is my 4th therapist in 12 years. The first one I was forced to go to and that lasted two visits. The second one I was desperate with severe depression but had to leave. The 3rd and most helpful so far was a spiritual counselor that it took me till I can't remember the exact reason why, but over a year of friends encouraging me to go to go and I know our first couple sessions were not o.k. with me but I wanted to believe in the path she was guiding me down and aside from the abusive boyfriend I was dating at the time, I made a lot more progress and tools that seem to have carried with me and braced me for now.

Regardless of what happens - this is good! I don't believe that any of us still living have been given anything we aren't strong enough, or provided the tools enough to not handle. I think all of us that are doing whatever we can to help ourselves (big or small) are going to be victorious and then be able to help each other that much more. I've seen some amazing people so far on this site... sufferers and carers alike. The courage is breathtaking. My heart goes out to so many and it really makes me think about what I want to do with the rest of my life for others. (tangent)

:) Rambling again... back to work!
Thank you so much for listening AND sharing!!

 

[sisu]

You inspired me to go back and read some of the stuff I wrote in 2008. Wow!! Thankfully I am in a much better place now. Plus, I have a lot better understanding of PTSD.

Back then I really had no idea what PTSD was or what it could do to a person. Like I had said, he was normal with zero symptoms until the day he crashed emotionally. It was almost like a car accident....one moment it's all good. The next moment the person you love has been taken from you and you are just lost and confused. His change was like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde....very extreme. I now believe this was purposeful in order to push me so far away that he wouldn't have the guilt of bringing me down if I stayed with him....(silly man!)

Now I do understand his PTSD symptoms and triggers....and he is allowing me to learn more about him/his ptsd every day.

I am a pretty spiritual person and I have to believe that "J's" path and my path have intersected for a reason. And the fact that even after 2 years of no contact all of the feelings were still there. It felt like home to me when I was back with him. Just cozy and comfortable....and not in a bad way. And he felt the same way. It still does when we see each other.

By the way I use the screen name "sisu" because it means strength and perseverance in Finnish. I am part Finnish. :tup:

Let's call our "grey" something better....."grey" is such a depressing color. :D

 

[May1321]

I tried to find another word for "grey" area... nothing too cool - maybe "BIG BLUE" like the ocean :)

Part of me feels that I wish he would just not contact me. Like it would be easier than going back and forth with 'care or not care' because I obviously can't help BUT care.

As I mentioned before... I analyze EVERYTHING and am trying not to do that so much lately. Like my moves towards him... whether I say something in text or push some information I've found... it's never anything horrible I say nor should I apologize for it and I do it freely after we've had open conversation about things. If I asked for permission to send him a link, he would probably say "No"... so I send information anyway because it isn't how he feels 'now' that really makes the difference... it's the continuing to be true to myself and my feelings and care and being myself that is the person I want him to remember when he's thinking back on things.

We're not in a position to "not" see each other as at any moment, we could run into each other in the hallways, parking lot, or elevator OR someone needs something fixed in our office.

I am a pretty spiritual person and I have to believe that "J's" path and my path have intersected for a reason.

It's funny what I realize with your quote for a couple of reasons, my path took a drastic change once for a "J" several years ago. Whenever a relationship would start to go bad but I would start making excuses for it to stay, my J would call me out of the blue. Every time. Even this last summer I started to date a guy and I had another friend named Jay who would call me in similar situations yet when I refused to look at the signs - it for me was almost like God called in his big gun "J" to contact me and make me go "Whoa!" Especially since I hadn't heard from him in almost a year. He didn't contact me this time...

Everything about me being in this place and this job AND we all believe amongst my family and other friends and bosses too, has been a pure string of miracles one after another. Many amazing things have happened in my life... I can't help but believe that "T" is a part of that... some how... maybe if even just for those last little bits we needed to take care of to piece together the rest of our lives so that we could be the best we have wanted to be for ourselves and for relationships.

He was talking last night when he called and woke me up that my co-worker and her boyfriend don't look alike - like they fit. Funny thought because I said that to my mom about my ex-husband and always think about that when I date... "do we even look like we compliment each other?" I asked him about a couple other couples I work with and asked him about us... he said "yes, we do."

I believe the BEST person for anyone is the one that brings out the BEST in them... Maybe a better way of saying it is "promote" what is best in them. It doesn't mean it is easy work... so maybe this is part of the hard work... but I can definitely say that like you - "T" has not been abusive towards me EVER. He WOULD never. If anything, we seem to continue to promote the best in each other and anyone who sees us together would say we "glow" because we smile continuously and can make each other laugh and obviously, really think about the people we are and working to become.

 

[sisu]

Big Blue...I like it. Parts unknown but peaceful. :D

I could quote almost your whole post!! That is so funny about discussing other couples and whether or not they "match". We do that too and laugh. He and I match pretty well....we are both tall. He is 6'4" and I am 5'10", we both have dark hair and both smile a lot. What I also love is that we seem to "fit" physically too (get your mind out of the gutter)....what I mean is when we hold hands it's a perfect fit, when he hugs me the proportions are perfect and when he has his arm around me it is comfortable because the height difference fits. I know, weird to think about that stuff but I tend to analyze everything....I think too much. I drive myself crazy! :p

I believe the BEST person for anyone is the one that brings out the BEST in them..

I totally agree with the above quote. And he also brings out the best in me and I in him. Even if he is so depressed, when we are together we laugh and enjoy each others company and he feels better. I can see it in his face ~ his face gets brighter. He encourages me and cheers on the sidelines for my successes and consoles me in my failures. I do the same for him. He is the first one I want to call to talk about these things. And I get his phone calls when he needs to talk about something good or bad happening in his life.

Plus, he actually listens to me. For example during Christmas we were flipping channels and on HSN they were showing this Polish pottery. It's this ornately painted cups and plates. I made a comment that it was really pretty and that I liked it. Then we flipped more channels until we found something to watch. This topic never came up again...it was a conversation as quick as that. So a week goes by and I go over to his house for New Years Eve. He tells me he has something for me. I go into his dining room and there sits two coffee mugs and a little plate for cookes in (you guessed it) the Polish pottery that I liked. He drove down to this busy part of town in crowds and traffic to get it for me ~ and he HATES crowds and traffic. It was a small gesture that meant HUGE things to me....it made me cry. No one has ever listened or cared enough to remember things like this.

I tell him anything and everything and I no longer hold back. I feel like if we are ever going to succeed as a couple then I will not and cannot ever walk on egg shells. He has actually been receptive and responsive to this. I may preface a tough thing like....I am saying this because I love and care about you....or something like that. But I still say it. I think he appreciates it and I have found that he is getting better at telling me anything and everything.

I can handle anything with his PTSD except the shutting out. I don't care that we can't go to crowded places, professional sporting events, rock concerts, etc. That he has to sit with his back to the wall facing the door at restaurants. We are both kind of home bodies anyway.....we have big Yahtzee tournaments, watch movies or just hang out and talk. We both truly enjoy each others company.

 

[May1321]

Oh Sisu! I've wanted to respond to your post all day!

I totally laughed out loud when you mentioned the "physical fit" and even the "gutter" part... sounds like something "T" would say to me :p but yes, I totally get that and it is one of the things he likes to validate with "us". You mentioned the height thing and flat footed, I fit right under his chin... I'm 5'4" and he's approximately 5'9" but this size also I think is a part of his big comfort with me. We wrap up very easily and that's what gets him through the nights sometimes.

You know, I've been reading posts through out the morning and doing more research on the VA government site for PTSD. I read parts of it yesterday and instinctly sent it to "T". My biggest fear isn't so much the 'shutting out' as I think we've created a pretty good dialogue for that and I know at times he needs his space. Unfortunately, I really don't believe we've even reached "scary" yet. My biggest fear is the lying... lying to me, lying to himself. And trying not to push too much.

The other thing is the pedestal he holds me up on. I don't see myself hurting him but if I'm going to walk on eggshells for anything, it is because of this. I think this is the part that is truly bringing out the best in me. I'm really thinking about what is most important, thinking my reactions through, and choosing my words carefully.

For instance, one of the big flags for me and where my protective shields go up is with his family. I've only met his dad, and he seems nice enough to me, but I know I don't need to like him. I don't need to take his $h!t. I read in a post this morning something that was a light bulb going off for me. Almost a word for word story of a incident that "T" tells me about with his dad at a diner. Reading what I read gave me so much hope for "T" that he can choose not to take it, try to succumb to it, and overcome it. I was so excited - because for me it means knowledge or a key to climbing another rung on the ladder of healing - that I text him that I just read some super encouraging news and that I'd tell him about it next time we have a "chat" night (which we call the nights he 'opens' up) and that it just also made me want to tell him how amazing and wonderful I think he is. Of course he wants to know what I discovered but I just told him now wasn't the time and thanked him for being wonderful. He returned the compliments and we've left it at that. But to be able to encourage him with something concrete for him to research or read himself is soooo wonderful.

We talked about my family last night and I must admit that I am SO proud of my own father. At first, when all the crap started to hit the fan my dad was - 'never allowed here again - don't want to hear about it - no one hurts my little girl. DONE.' "T" even wanted to call and apologize to them for promises he felt he couldn't keep. Well, last night I called just to say "HI" and didn't bring up "T" at all but my dad actually asked how he was doing. We talked some about the newest therapy and some of the stuff that bothered me in his psyche when he talks about his dad. I explained the conversations about asking me if I think he's "retarded" as his dad says for a few of the things he does. It always makes me happy because my dad (who is one of the smartest and bravest men I know for all that he's gone through and all that WE'VE gone through and conquered together) just laughed and responded in glee because some of those things that "T's" dad thinks are "retarded" are some of my dad's favorite things to do. We talked more and he asked if he would come up and visit now that the snow has melted, and also wanted me to tell him that he'd moved his 2 meter attenna for his HAM radio so now he and "T" can talk on the radio if he wanted to try.

It just makes me feel like I'm on the right track for being the person that I want to be... This person with so much self-love that nothing but love can flow through me and I quickly had to change my tune but didn't want to have the same path now as I've had with past relationships... Where I burrowed myself in hurt and let the wounds get bigger causing myself that much more pain in moving forward and upward. With "T" it's been different. It is super difficult, and I still have a really really long ways to go. But choosing to live day to day vs. focusing so much on what will be... I have hopes for his health and my health but I don't dwell on "us".

This site has been amazing. Getting to share good experiences has been so good too. I think sometimes when the going gets tough, and I ask myself - "why the heck am I even doing this? wouldn't it be easier to just walk away and not face the growth that I even need to do to have a healthy relationship now or in the future? just to continue blaming my past and my apparent "bad karma" for the way things have unfolded?" - then to read your post is encouraging... to read others successes overcoming their trauma is encouraging... just to know that there is a balanced ground to our lives somewhere down the road makes pushing on through easier today. And it also helps me hold my Ps and Qs when I want to explode from the poison that is oozing out of old wounds.

I believe in my heart that God is pretty good, and that he's got to be behind this all for all of us on the good side of it. I've never seen Him not take bad and turn it into some sort of good, and though my heart breaks for the victims of Evil that is out there, it grows twice as large watching those who have made the choice to not be the victim and strive for the love and life they deserve. I pray daily that "T" reaches that point, and that my strength in supporting him continues no matter where I stand on, on the side, or down the road of his journey.

Dubbed "Overanlyzer/Big Dreamer" right here :)

Thanks again, Sisu... You are such an encourager. Glad to know you are sailing on the "Big Blue" with me :)

 

[May1321]

choose not to take it, try to succumb to it

I meant "try NOT to succumb" :oops: :)

 

[sisu]

It sounds like T really does love you and care deeply for you and about you. You two are just in the Big Blue right now ~ and that is okay. The fast lane is all its cracked up to be, sometimes its nice to take the slow lane and smell each and every flower along the way. Friendship is the foundation that all long lasting and fulfilling relationships are built upon. In my experience with J and his ptsd, our friendship has always been there (best friends in fact), but I think we are reaching new depths in our friendship with is not only amazing but very comforting. We all have trust issues ~ no one gets by in life without heartbreak of some sort and each time your heart is broken it gets harder and harder to trust again. In addition I have found with J's ptsd its deeper than that. He does trust me, as he says I am in his "circle of trust" to borrow a term from Meet the Parents. But there were things that were important in understanding him and his ptsd that he did not trust me with. Its as if his threshold for total trust is much higher than even a jaded woman like me.....but we are starting to get past that. Maybe this higher trust threshold is common for those with ptsd. But he IS trusting me with things that are probably scary to admit to someone else, in fact probably scary to admit to himself. And he called me last night and this morning before work to talk and tell me about a job offer he is excited about. These consistent calls right now are making me stronger not only because he is calling, but because right now he is in a depressed state and is STILL calling me. This is the time when he usually shuts me out to be alone with his thoughts. And he is not!! This is a good sign. However I am hesitant to celebrate because my hopes have been dashed before ~ but I just can't help myself. :D

I think we both are on the right path for us and for them. Your therapy is helping you become stronger as is mine. I am learning things about myself that I sort of knew in the back of my mind somewhere, but was happy to bury it and never think about it. Now I am facing this and growing each day.

I have no idea what the future holds for any of us. All I know is right now I am happy, content and my "gut check" says it's all okay. So I will continue on this path of discovery and be open to all of this.

It's all good May!! It's all good! (((((Hugs!)))))

 

[May1321]

Good morning, Sisu!

I just wanted to check in before heading to work. I ended up having a very uplifting day yesterday (a day off due to Good Friday)... Did some things 'for me' :barefoot: MANI/PEDI!!!!

I also took my brother to lunch.

You were speaking above about...

learning things about myself that I sort of knew in the back of my mind somewhere, but was happy to bury it and never think about it.

This too is something I've been realizing... and it is so amazing how much we bottle up that could truly be poisoning our thought process and actions. However, there's a lot of "garbage" that probably isn't but we needed to bottle it up, hold it in that light at that time to overcome it.

I had nothing but fulfilling conversations yesterday... you know the kind where you sit down and talk about life and what this person may be going through - what they've discovered - yet in that process you also find enlightenment in an area you were overlooking in your own life.

Most 'triumphant' I think, was talking to my little brother when I took him to lunch. Just setting up that safe ground with him (knowing that he "thinks" I'm trying to push my process of healing on him) by just telling him that I care about him a lot and the choices he makes are his own but I could not begin to express how wonderful and how much brighter days feel even alongside the darker ones. He asked me about "T" and I told him some of the things he does that are related to the PTSD and my brother just kind of kept quiet but I could see it in his eyes he understood. At the end he was like, "Wow. I really feel bad for my wife. I wouldn't know as much as I know I do due to my PTSD if it wasn't for her and each day I have to work on something new." I was able to explain that though it is good he's recognizing these things, the VA is free to him and he's already been diagnosed. Having that neutral person to help him through it will also help his marriage. His wife and I already talk and she knows she needs to work on stuff too, but till you really look at it as what it really is, as you and I know, you just don't realize the size of it and that our reactions to what we don't know don't help.

I think you are right... the best part and the progress part is that "J" is able to still open up to you in his hardest days... that's good! I notice with "T" I see progress because he isn't holding it all together. Even though he doesn't seem to be giving much to the VA and his therapy at this moment... I have to hope it is breaking him down some so that he'll want nothing but to release it.

Thank you for the progress reports on your end. Who knows where these roads lead but it sure feels good to not be so afraid of "not knowing" and gaining more understanding for what really is going on. It sort of renews trust in what I've experienced in the past that I didn't totally understand also and that just makes for a much more whole person as I move forward. Good feeling :)

Have a fabulous Saturday!!!!