Relationship He Still Calls Me "honey"...

[sisu]

Hello May,
Sounds like you had a wonderful Friday! I LOVE mani/pedi's ~ so relaxing and truly something special you have done for YOU. And a nice lunch with your brother ~ one where he actually listened to you and may actually take what you said to improve his marriage. I'm happy for you. I hope the rest of your weekend was as fulfilling!

You know the ebb and flow of all of this "loving a man with ptsd" thingy we have found ourselves in. I had some of that this weekend. I was feeling pretty depressed this weekend....not sure why exactly. The constant rain and gloom is probably a big part of it and the other part is probably digging up all of this stuff in therapy. Well, J had called me on his way home from work on Friday and we were talking about what he has to get done this weekend. His kids were out of town so he had to buckle down and finish his final paper and re-do his mid-term paper for this prof he hates. His has his last class tomorrow night and will complete his masters in teaching. Anyway, he was pretty depressed about having to re-do the midterm and was worried about the final paper too. Plus a few other things that are floating around in his mind besides the usual ptsd stuff. He got a phone call while we were talking on Friday and said he had to take that call and would call me back. We had already talked for 30 minutes so it was no big deal. Friday night around 730pm I tried to call him because he never called me back and his phone was off. I didn't think much of it...thought that maybe he was charging it. But it was off until about 3p-4p on Saturday. I texted him Saturday about 5pm and he said he was working on his paper and very tired. I tried to call him right after that and he didn't pick up. I tried to call him once on Sunday and he didn't pick up. (I hate that). Then I texted him around 7p and said I hope he is okay. He called me about 730pm and said he was very depressed all weekend and either slept or worked on his paper. He took calls from his kids and his mom, but no one else. This kind of hurt my feelings, but I am trying to understand. He did call and apologize and explained what he was feeling and why he didn't call or take my call all weekend. We did have a nice conversation and he did call again this morning on the way to work. All seems normal again....but like I said before, the shutting out thing is what kills me mentally and emotionally. He and I have to figure something out if he needs this shut down time so I don't feel hurt and he is still able to do what he needs to do. I don't know....maybe I'm expecting too much. The thing is, I really wanted to talk to him....I needed him and he was unable to be there for me. He does a pretty good job at being there for me most of the time, so maybe I am thinking unreasonably....

How do you deal with T shuts down and won't answer his phone?

 

[May1321]

Good morning, Sisu.

I'm sorry to hear your weekend had it's challenges ((((HUG)))). Fortunately, we had some sunshine here and I occupied myself with working my second job which was a good distraction.

I understand this need to be on some sort of equal ground with J when it comes to this friendship. Sometimes I wonder if I am either giving T too much rope because of his "PTSD" letting him avoid the responsibilities, or if he is just not capable of those responsibilities of being a friend in return. I mean, why is it that I'm constantly there for him, but when I need him to talk to, he's not there for me? I don't exactly know what the trust is but I do know in some areas that he can't be completely. And then again, I don't have to allow so much of the 'Big Blue' either.

I'm not sure if I'm going to come out of this post as making any sense but in answer to your question, I'll share something I've been tossing back and forth in my mind.

How do you deal with T shuts down and won't answer his phone?

I understand the emotional roller coaster (much like PMS in my book) that we find ourselves on after a therapy session so that may have played some into your weekend, for sure. Sometimes when I 'know' I'm in these moments, I try to accept that T isn't calling me back as a blessing. It seems that if I do connect with him, I'm doing so selfishly and my emotions aren't enough in my control to not trigger him, or he trigger more in me and we end up fighting.

As I'll go on... not that sharing my experience may ignite some thought or action in you but I really have to check my gutt whether it is me, him, or something from my past that is causing me to essentially panic :(

Thursday night, not thinking much of it, I just text T to have a good weekend since he was going to be going away fishing with a buddy. I originally tried calling him as I was leaving dinner with my sister-in-law but he was in the middle of a phone call and asked if he could call me right back. I said sure... but being pretty exhausted I sent him the text. He responded right away and said he was in the middle of a family meltdown and he'd call me in a bit "xoxo". I told him he didn't need to and it sounded like he needed me to let him be - knowing he had stuff to pack and dealing with his family, I kind of figured it would probably end up being kind of late and I was ready for bed (side noted: I hate getting my expectations up) - he replied "NO!" and then "This will just be a minute and I want to call you in a bit" he briefly explained in text what was going on and I said "O.k."... well... I fell asleep like I knew was about to happen and then I woke up completely startled right before 1 a.m. and checked my phone and he hadn't called OR text me. I sent him a sleepy text saying "You didn't call : ( Just woke up startled." (expectation let down!)

When I woke up officially, I still hadn't gotten anything from him. Prior to falling asleep, I was frustrated with him but I had to do the gutt check 'Is this because of his family? Because I think he's lying? What?' and then I picked up the PTSD Relationship book and just reread through some areas that had been bothering me lately. I wish I had the book right in front of me because the part I read said something to the effect, "Do not tolerate the little things that bother you such as behaviour towards you... sometimes it takes you standing up for yourself to make the difference even if it means giving them some space / walking away for a little bit."

Sometimes when I'm frustrated like this, I look for distractions, or outlets for my frustration so I can widdle down what is really at the root of whatever I'm feeling. No one should have that much control over our emotions and reactions but ourselves. I know this is a long time coming but it has been somewhat liberating as I've been working on this in my own life. So I journal, or talk things out with my mom, or vent on here, or read a book, or run.

Obviously - like you with the 'shut out' I was not happy and kind of hurt by him 'saying he was going to do something then not doing it' when I would have been fine if he just let it go at the beginning but he was ADAMANT about talking to me so I gave in = expectations.

My attitude towards this is I deserve more respect than that. To be honest, he has been so secretive in areas of his life lately, yet acting like I'm his girlfriend when I'm around him, I just don't think I can handle this sort of 'Big Blue'... I'm still too emotionally attached. Other friends, simple - I'll call you in a sec - and then they don't, is not a big deal... but for T and me, it is. (It has made me wonder if I should change my expectation of not just what I expect from friends but more so, what I expect from myself... I'm notorious for doing this but for the people I hold on the "inner circle" such as my family, or T, I explain and need explanation for actions... saving that Q for my therapist this Wednesday :O_o:).

Needless to say... about 1 p.m. the next day (Friday), I finally got a text from T saying "Hi : (" I responded with a short "Hey." and just sort of let him tell me what was up. I wasn't going to attack him, or even engage past the text I sent the other night. I know this is sort of negative but I don't know what is going on and I know that whenever I put myself out there in an un-neutral manner, I hurt. Not because of him, but because I put myself out there when in the back of my mind his response or no response is giving him the power to rule over my emotions - even if he is unaware. He went on to ask if I thought he was a 'dirtbag'. Still being very neutral and non-attacking - though I really wanted to - I asked if he felt he was a dirtbag. He responded "no" and I just said, well then you're not a dirtbag. And then I just told him - "However, NEXT TIME you say you are going to call me and then aren't going to be able to, it would be respectful of you to at least send me a short text saying - 'not going to be able to'." He apologized and said he understood and would definitely do that from here on out. That was that.

I just feel that I'm going to baby him over regular things, or chase him for his attention or reaction. It's taking a lot of practice but usually when I'm in a depressed mood about something, it's because in my history, someone is not meeting my expectations. So I don't expect MUCH of him but I expect to be treated the way I treat him and I'm starting to wonder if there are definitely other areas I need to fine tune in this "relationship" in order to make it work the best so that I don't find myself on the losing end.

This is what has been really puzzling me and hard to figure out FOR me....

.... I know this is getting long - but this all leads in to what you and I've talked about with the "grey area" or "Big Blue". I can honestly say, I don't think I am o.k. with this. I honestly believe that he and I are connected in a lot of ways... and this is disruptive when I have a hard time trusting everything he says because of this "area" we are in.

I was having a really rough night sleeping Saturday night. I had a lot of stuff on my mind. He was supposed to be gone and out of cell service (a breathing time for me to really think about stuff). I finally fell asleep around 5 a.m. again... having woken up startled around 2:30 (very typical time for T to wake up if he's having nightmares... doesn't happen every night but fairly regularly especially if he's had an intense VA week). I got up the next morning and turned on my email and I had an email notification that T's younger brother had emailed me on FB at 5:15 a.m.. All it said was "text T asap. don't write me back." Odd A) because of the "don't write me back" and B) because right before nodding off (around 5 a.m.) I had these thoughts of getting that emergency phone call from the VA.

Anyways, it was about 9 a.m. my time so I sent him a "?" text. He text me right back with a "Hi : )" I asked what the heck was going on and he then called me... First thing he asks is if I text his brother back - I said "No". Then he went on to pout, per say, about me not texting him this weekend - even though he was still supposed to be gone and out of cell service which I reminded him having told me. I figured he wasn't going to be able to respond so what was the point to text...?? He was being pouty and I know checking in on me; I think partially out of habit but also because he knew immediately that I was shaken up about something (my thought stuff from the night before) so I just told him a little about my brother. He was only in cell service for a bit - not sure what he was up to but apparently his Blackberry had fried while charging and he needed to go into the town to get a "Go" Phone.

I just don't know how much I can believe. I know it makes it harder when he does not respond when he says he is going to and I try not to think about what he's doing when I'm not talking to him, saying this is not my business any more... but we are still "together" at least in this 'Big Blue'... but he's deleted/blocked me on FB yet I'm pretty positive he's checking up on me through his brother's page... Knowing he's had this access in the past, I'm pretty positive T is the one that messaged me with the "don't write me back" because why would his brother care?

I truly believe that "taking care of ourselves" means more than just physically working out, getting mani-pedis, etc... It means - WE know what our flaws are, where we are weak, and what triggers us and by deciding that we deserve better and acknowledge what we need to change then we are in TURN 'taking care of ourselves'.

People are trusted till they give us a reason not to trust them. Well, in both our cases, we have our reasons why are trust falters. I think almost every 'supporter' does. I think it is great that we are there for J and T when they need us, and I can understand if I'm having a bad day that my 'sufferer' probably won't be able to handle it. If T hadn't responded Friday afternoon, I can honestly say - because I'm finally reaching that level in myself - that I would probably not have initiated another text unless it was emergency. My whole GOAL this weekend/week has to not be the one initiating. Obviously, it makes him mad... but it also should show him that he needs to put in some effort too and he does apologize. A man healthy enough to recognize when to apologize without me telling him is a man healthy enough to make the decision to help himself and work at a 'normal' relationship. So, when J doesn't text you/call you back when he says he is going to, and I would have probably shot him a text that night to say - "hey, am I still expecting your call? if not..." if he didn't respond, one call the next day but if his phone was off?? (if this was T I was dealing with) I would be pissed... I would leave a message probably just saying "Hey, you said you were going to call last night and didn't respond to my text later either. I'm just checking in because now I'm starting to worry about you because I had expected to hear from you per our latest conversation. Wanted to make sure everything was alright." Then left it... You've put it out there that you are concerned, and now it's time for you to exert that emotional energy elsewhere... the more you put into it, the more control you give him of your emotions (which no guy wants unless he's that sort of controlling). The more you chase or push, the more they pull away... we've got to keep it closer to the middle in order to maintain our own sanity.

All of this long windedness of mine being said... I received some really good quotes in my email over the weekend I wanted to share with you....

Friday - April 22
"Our real blessings often appear to us in the shape of pains, losses and disappointments, but let us have patience and we soon shall see them in their proper figures." - by, Joseph Addison

Sunday, April 24
"It has been my philosophy of life that difficulties vanish when faced boldly." - by, Isaac Asimov

Part of you reaching this middle ground of understanding J's 'shut out' is going to just be by being bold and stating what you need in return to help you understand, and curb your concern in those moments. By telling him simply...

Always apologize first even if you don't feel you are completely in the wrong, usually all of us are 50% a part of the problem.

- I apologize for what may appear to you as (x, y, z)
- It is just that when you do this (x, y, z)
- I feel this (x, y, z)
- And it would help me if you could (ie. shoot me a quick text saying you aren't going to be able to do this...)

The bottom line is 70% of the time this may actually work, it's been working for me as long as I can keep it simple and not just for folks with PTSD. I also still hold onto the fact I can't expect too much and there is a good possibility that if T fears growing in this direction he set forth to do, then me standing firm could cause him to run away because in his mind, 'he's not worthy'.

By rising ourselves out of the grey area and standing firmly for what we feel we deserve and believe in, I have to hope that....

Monday, April 25
"It is the nature of the man to rise to greatness if greatness is expected of him." - by, John Steinbeck
(and that we too represent this greatness as well)

I know it's long :sleep: Sisu but hopefully helps some :)

Keeping my fingers crossed for the both of us. (((((((((hugs))))))))))

 

[sisu]

I love everything you said in the above post....and much of what you wrote is causing me to think. To think about what I feel I deserve, of what I feel I "settle" for and of what J is capable of giving.

Also, so sorry for the delay.....I was supposed to have my therapy on Monday night and my therapist somehow forgot to put my appointment in her schedule. I sat there for 40 minutes until she came out of her office with another patient and she was packed up ready to go. I had been feeling very depressed all weekend and wanted to talk over the stuff cycling around in my head ~ and she forgot about me. I was crushed, mad, annoyed & felt like it was a huge trust violation. I was not in a good frame of mind...

I did call J when I got home and talked to him for a while about it and he was supportive.....he was there for me this time. He actually ended up coming to my house last night for a while.

I know that you have had contact with T's family, however I have not met any of J's family except his kids and his ex-wife. His entire family lives out in the state of Washington and we live in Indiana. His mom is coming for a visit next week for a few days and I have expressed to him that I want to meet her a few times. We talked about it again last night and I teased him that he probably won't let me meet her. But he said, yes he would and that his mom likes me. There is that trust issue again......I "think" I will get to meet her, but I am not certain.

We are still friends on Facebook and I am friends with two of his four kids on Facebook. Nothing has changed and honestly since we broke-up we have not gone even a week without talking. For the last couple months it’s been almost daily or multiple times per day. And we have not gone a week without seeing each other. I am more social and outgoing and have lots of friends. Because of his PTSD he is not as social and outgoing. And he doesn’t have a lot of friends because of his trust issues. He has a few Army buddies in town but they are all police officers and have weird schedules so it is literally 2-3 times per year that they see each other. He mostly spends time with his kids or me.

I too am struggling with what my needs are versus what he can give me. He still says beautiful things to me....and I so WANT to believe them. An example would be, "I want to lay next to you every single day for the rest of my life"....now he has already said many times since we broke-up.."if we lived in a perfect world I would have married you by now". I think I have stated before that our level of trust, friendship and emotional intimacy has increased and it does feel good. I guess the only thing that will show the truth is time and right now I have a lot of that. I am a single parent to two girls (ages 12 & 13) and I'm really not in a rush to find the next man. I am content to date J and see where this goes.....knowing full well it may blow up in my face again but just hoping that it doesn't. I can tell you that when he says those things to me my reaction to them is almost non-existent. I respond back to him with words, but my heart is so afraid to be hurt again that I cannot react. He is going to have to be the one to have actions with those words. And he for the most part has had actions with his words.

I feel like I am rambling again….my lost therapy appointment on Monday has really put my head in a spin. I guess my point in this is that I still have hope that it will all work out, but I am still very guarded. I have not initiated any calls or contact since this past weekend. I’m going to continue working on keeping control of my emotions and not giving him that control. (this is hard for me!)

We have plans for Saturday afternoon. His mom comes next Wednesday. Lot’s going on in the month of May around here. Let’s see how everyone holds up under the pressure.

((((Hugs!!)))) Thanks for being a friend on here and all of your wonderful thoughts and insight. :D

 

[May1321]

Ooooh Sisu, I loved your message... such positive vibes dispite even a stressful Monday. This is good!

These last few days have been very 'soul' opening for me as well. It's amazing how much the light starts to shine as I get a 'grip' on little things.

As I've pondered back and forth on how to handle different situations as you've seen on here, and in my own mind - the swimming thoughts - it's amazing how much pressure is relieved when I just am either pushed or leap and do it.

I look to all resources but just starting with being the truest of true to myself, I've made some 'big steps' in my opinion on handling some things the last few days. My jaw is still dropped in awe at how well it's gone for me.

The first happened at 3 a.m. between Saturday and Sunday. I've been feeling pressure in my life with friends, and money, and making some decisions that one way would be fun but not realistic and the flip side - my fear has been - would tick off my friends, not be as fun, but be good for me in the long run. I finally just got up the gahl to do it and emailed my girlfriends. I am not able to go on this trip they invited me on and I said I'd go on sort of on a whim prior to some other vital things in my life coming up $$$. They are all on the coast 'together' and I'm where I am 6 hours from them... so I already sort of feel out of the loop. I toiled over the whole thing... their disappointment, their responses, my hurt, my anger. I think my nerves and emotions have been sitting pretty close to the surface lately and I was afraid they'd reject me. I don't know if it is everything I'm 'growing' through, or just because the last time few times I've spent with my supposed best friend of them, she's been a little snooty :cautious:.

Well, needless to say - WHEW! - they were fabulous and supportive! That makes a large handful of times I've been up against this sort of 'being up front and true to myself' since January and it's gone well :) *knock on wood*

So after writing you, reading various responses, stating that I believe in setting my boundaries and speaking my truth - owning my feelings, somehow this opportunity to share my truth with T came up. I knew I had to say something in order to 'take care of me' - either that or step back quietly without a word - and in the end, it was the words from a friend that really struck a nerve....

"You are worrying so much about saying what you feel and believe to T that you are in the end being co-dependant because you aren't putting your needs first but his reaction towards them first."

Something to that tune, anyhow... It was the "co-dependant" part that made me go... WHOA! I don't want to be co-dependant on this relationship!

Well, last night I ended up having a very uplifting visit with some friends after work and even ignored T's call around 6 p.m. when he decided to ring me and let me know he was home from his trip. (HA! try to call me co-dependant! :rolleyes:) I returned his call around 8 when I was done visiting and he was in the middle of catching up on work that needed to be done. So I then received 3 seperate calls back each with a little time to visit.

*Prior to, I'd been considering writing him a letter and just giving him that. I started a rough draft and then just left it realizing that I tend to rush into decisions some times and I needed to pace this one out.... to make sure I wasn't being irrational... that's all ;) To tell the truth, I really didn't know if he was going to contact me when he got home, or not. He could have had a self discovery moment taking him another direction... who knew. *shrug*

Well, letter not needed.

His last call came in around 10:30 p.m. We chatted a bit about this and that - pretty good spirits - then he started in on me dating other people. He says I should 'not get serious' with anyone but should go out to dinner/lunch 'on dates' with other guys just so "when we get down the road in our old age you aren't mad that you didn't date more" or "settled for the wrong guy". (Confusion!) I finally asked - again - why he keeps saying these things and explained as simply as I (a girl) can that it is too similar to sounding like a guy who isn't being so honest on his end and wants me to start dating so he could officially push me away because now I've done something to "hurt" him even if it is at his own request.

This led into me asking again about the Facebook stuff. I said, 'I've been thinking about it and this "secrecy" and him getting asked out by other girls is really bothering me. When I realize why it is bothering me so much, it is because I still have very strong feelings for you and though we are technically "friends" I am still in "exclusive" mode and want you more than a friend. If I was to find out you HAVE been dating other girls, it would crush me.'

I said it about as clear as that. Of course, he tried to pull me in one direction, and then another, accusing me of 'trying to break up with someone I'm already broken up with' and getting frustrated with me because I was upsetting him before he had to go to sleep which wasn't going to be good sleep because of his busy day ahead, etc. etc. I thought about it later and was very proud of myself because I just kept, vs. reacting to each thing he said, sticking to exactly the points I wanted to make and nothing more, nothing less.

In the midst of all of it, he actually told me more details than needed but helps in the processing of this behaviour in my mind and releasing HIS truth which was why he needs me to date other people, why he has me deleted/blocked from Facebook, the 'name, rank, and serial number' of the girls that asked him out and repeats of everything he told them. (I want to say, "See? was it that hard to tell me the truth vs. tip toeing around it to get a reaction out of me?" :eek:) We finally came to an end of the conversation when I just told him that I appreciate him telling me the truth and the actions he's taking. I just explained/apologized because it was not my intention to upset him but I thought it best that I make things as 'cut and dry' and to the point for him as possible and it was important for me and my half of this relationship to tell him even if it upset us. He thanked me and agreed that he'd rather have it to the point and the truth. We calmed down and hung up for the night.

This was about 11:30 p.m. and I was rattled. Obviously, analyzing 'what just happened'. I reassured myself that I spoke my truth, stated my boundaries and stuck to those points. The conversation was all over the map but stayed closer to the middle than most upsets like this and this was actually one of the better discussions/arguments yet. I decided that the rest wasn't up to me, I said my piece, and cannot be responsible or hurt by his response whatever that may be, and laid my head down to sleep.

AT 11:54 p.m. he called me back..... To Apologize!!! I didn't know what to do but thank him and apologize back but then he said, "You have nothing to apologize for. You were just being truthful and explaining what you are feeling and it meant a lot for what you had to say. I apologize for getting angry with you when you were very directly trying to express your truth. I just wanted to let you know before we fell asleep that I hear you and appreciate you. Goodnight Babyhead."

T is sooooo far from even digging the deepest into his therapy. I don't hold a lot of expectation for the 'now' with us... but what a huge breakthrough to just own my own truth and be able to express it, walk away from expressing it without regret, and then when all said and done, get that kind of response.

It's not just our guys, it's everyone - such as my friends, my bosses, my family. It's like we all are walking on eggshells one way or another and YES - these guys are hurting in ways, or numb in ways due to things we cannot even fathom. I have soooo much belief and love and respect for all he's done, but NO one has the right to be disrespectful to me and that is starting WITH ME.

I have to be grateful that this time of my life, this experience has catapulted me into the throws of dealing with my own weaknesses. I love T to the death... probably because he keeps blowing my mind with how much more of a person he believes he is yet shows me.

There is this huge freedom I've felt recently taking ownership of my own $h!t. Apologizing and forgiving exes and friends and family (even if not face to face and just in prayer) for the hurt we've caused each other. I don't want to spend my life in regret or anger or hate.

I know this sounds crazy probably but just to LOVE... to love everything around me - ugly, pretty, up or down, rich or poor - whatever it might be. I just really really enjoy that feeling when that is all I feel. I'm still having the down days... tomorrow I have my therapy appointment. I understand your hurt and betrayal feeling when you are left waiting like that :( My "T" had to cancel on me last week and I survived but was chomping at the bit for sure :( I'm ready to delve into the ugly stuff... I very much dislike talking about the flaws of my family but I know healing the wounds means opening them up, even if uncomfortable.

I don't know if what I'm doing works for everyone or could. It seems to be working for us though and I don't believe in abandoning T because of his was of reciprocating my need for truth and respect (as long as I don't let it drag on :cautious:). But I do believe in strengthening myself so that I don't get pulled around in those conversations even as much as I did last night. Last night I was in a pretty decent place. Funny, because I really didn't feel that way. I was starting to get anxious but I prayed for strength and when the phone rang I was surprised by my own cheerfulness and 'confidence'.

I really hope the best for you and your steps in creating your own set of "cement shoes" so to speak :) It sounds like you and J have a very solid foundation for building an even stronger friendship/relationship. T and I are still in the 'foundation phase' upon top of the beginning of his therapy. I really am trying not to think about too much beyond tomorrow. I have hopes, of course, of this and that beyond July - haha - but that is more of a personal deadline for some of my things and freedoms.

Just looking back now after all these years, and these last few years and months even, at how much stronger I am, how much I'm much more concrete in my ideals and surroundings, just makes me want to see what July, or September, or 33 looks like :) I know... it's a few years off but a girl could dream, can't she?? :)

Happy 'Hump' Day, Sisu!!! Thanks for listening and sharing!! You finding your strength through your words and your time is continually inspiring :)

 

[sisu]

You are worrying so much about saying what you feel and believe to T that you are in the end being co-dependant because you aren't putting your needs first but his reaction towards them first."

Your friend is wise. That quote has made me think about how I act and react to J. I do have slight co-dependent tendacies, especially when abandonment is looming due to family issues growing up. This is one of my main focuses in therapy. However when your friend so clearly stated that to you, it's makes it easy to relate to my own choices. I don't always put his needs in front of mine, but I almost always keep from voiceing my needs for fear of his reaction. Not that he has ever given me a reason to fear his reaction ~ again my own personal struggle from even before him. Unfortunatley (and fortunatley) I was not aware of this fear of mine until I started therapy. This is something I really need to work on!!

My darn brain sometimes ~ the non-stop cycling thoughts and really just thinking too much and over analyzing....Grrr I hate it sometimes. Recently I have been worrying about and actually looking for reasons to not trust J. For example, I work in commercial real estate and our company took possession of a bar from a tenant who wasn't paying their rent. We have a new tenant however all of the alcohol is ours....we cannot sell it, give it to the next bar owner, nothing. We either have to use it personally or dump it....stupid laws. Anyway, I had told him about this a few weeks ago and said that we should make a beer run to this bar before the next owner takes over. He has mentioned it almost everytime we talk. In my head I think he keeps talking to me because I have something he wants. Or....last weekend when he was depressed and not answering his phone. We talked on Sunday night and he wanted to come over on Tuesday night. We talk on the phone a lot, but he seems to make sure he can see me when he wants sex. Now we do talk when he is over, and he says sweet things and we are talking about all kinds of stuff......but, is he really just manipulating me for sex? It's that trust issue.....I trust him to a degree, but I am not 100% sure he is always honest with his intentions. He talks a good talk. My gut is not telling me I should worry and my gut is usually 99% accurate if I listen to it...it's just my head. I will proceed with caution.

I guess I need to do some "middle of the road" talking with him to clear up some of this "big blue". Like at times I feel that we are moving forward and THIS is what we needed to build a solid foundation for our relationship. Then other times that lack of trust in my head takes over.....and sadly, some of my lack of trust is from other failed relationships. Not all of this is from him. I am also realizing that the "slow lane" in our relationship is working just fine for me right now. I need to keep slow because if I get caught up in all of this quickly I really think it will be a disaster. My mind is too fragile right now while digging up all of this stuff in therapy. I do need his friendship....we call it friendship...but friends don't have sex. Maybe that is where I struggle.

I think I am going to look back at all of my writings soon and say....what is wrong with this woman?!? I feel like I am all over the place. Sometimes I feel so strong, like I have all the answers. Then other times I feel so weak and have no answers. Obviously this battle is within ME....I need to be true to myself and take care of me.

You are awesome May! (((Hugs)))

 

[May1321]

I think I am going to look back at all of my writings soon and say....what is wrong with this woman?!? I feel like I am all over the place. Sometimes I feel so strong, like I have all the answers. Then other times I feel so weak and have no answers. Obviously this battle is within ME....I need to be true to myself and take care of me

Oh Sisu! There were so many other times I could have quoted you :)

I'm right there with you with the "friendship" "friends don't have sex" etc.

ACTUALLY, word for word I could pretty much say that that has been exactly how I have been feeling the last couple of weeks. The running through my mind what I trust, the 'relationship' we seem to be having, how I truly DO feel about the slow lane, my gutt check, EVERYTHING!

Before I go on, I must be truthful with you and myself that I didn't hear from T at all yesterday. For the first time unplanned, despite him saying after he apologized and before saying goodnight that he'll 'talk to me tomorrow'. Now granted, his dad who can be like a storm blowing in, just got into town. T has this overwhelming need to please everyone especially his dad so stress level goes WAAAAY up. But no calls or texts even to say "hey!". It bothers me, of course. Kind of that round and round of wondering if I did the right thing for standing up for myself, etc. I did. But when I woke up at 2 a.m. last night and looked at my phone, talking myself through it the whole time 'you know he didn't try calling or texting so I know you are going to look but you can't be offended if he didn't look. you said what you needed to say for you. it doesn't mean any more or any less. it's going to hurt but you will get through this. so look at your phone and then just go to sleep... think happy thoughts.'

So yes. You know. I don't think in a normal situation we are totally wrong for following our own instincts and staying the nights with our guys. The gutt checks are real. I had to check my barings by the talk of my truth before my mind made me sicker, but my gutt was right on. T would never do anything to hurt me. He truly does care about me. But he is not capable of having a normal relationship right now. That's why I can't be mad he hasn't tried contacting me and it was good that I explained early on as possible what I DO KNOW hurts me... I'm still too attached emotionally to T. I'm not looking to "sleep with" someone else. Really not even date. But it hasn't a whole lot to do with T. He was the first I'd wanted to date in a long time. But right now, I've got a lot going on for myself that I'm working through FOR myself. I chose T. I know at the time, he chose me. I can down right guarantee that that man is way stronger than even he believes and the reason I haven't heard from him is because in his mind, he thinks this is best for me, knowing that I deeply love him and having expressed my weakness. Not hearing from him is expected and a part of MY growth. He's respecting my feelings... but I did also express how I am exclusive to him and do still want a relationship with him even though I know now is not going to work. Even having a 'slow' relationship right now causes him anxiety not because we aren't already in one but it's that label and then the thoughts that go through his mind that he is going to hurt me. He knows I'm not looking to just move on. He isn't quite sure why I like him, but by being so available for the talks and the 'sex', I'm enabling him without even his awareness to keep behaving disrespectfully towards me because I am disrespecting my own needs and value.

I believe it is that old saying, "Treat others the way you wish to be treated." along with that I believe that WE set the standards as individuals of how we 'should' be treated. If we are loose, and push overs even for the men we love, then we aren't expecting much more from them than treating us like we are loose and push overs. We may think more highly of ourselves but until we 'act' like it, we're never going to receive the same respect.

I really really recommend "The Mastery of Love"... Like I said, I still hurt today. I may hurt a little tomorrow. But I think, gratefully, that T did hear me and by putting my foot down for myself and therefore for him, that because I also believe he truly cares about me, I somehow gained a little bit more respect from him, a little more strength for myself, and added a little bit more to our foundation. We aren't going to be able to make up for lost time and if I'd continued down the path losing more respect from both him and myself, then I would be where all my other relationships like this have ended. Empty hearted and empty handed while they 'still respect me and care about me' but they are now ready to move on and are now in secure strong relationships with women and even getting married. :( I've seen it too many times. I want a good relationship. A GOOOOOOD relationship. I want T but I don't want to force someone to love me/be in a relationship with me especially if they aren't ready. The time will come or it won't. I just have to believe that and continue to be this woman - strong woman - he believes I am. It doesn't hurt for me to do it for myself and it's not saying that if time lapses and someone I'm interested in wants to take me on a date, that I can't say "NO" because in the end, I can't put all my eggs in one basket, but my heart and standard at this time stays with T... PTSD or no PTSD... we've been working through this foundation and I have to believe that it is going to mean a lot more than it even feels (achey heart :( ) at some point down the road :)

Everyone has to feel it out on their terms but as you and I both know from past relationships, it seems the more we give - even if we say it is in love - and the less we feel we receive (because we know what we need - a partner that meets us half way) - the weaker and more hurt and the deeper the poison in our wounds seeps.

In my perfect world, my future has no face, but the love and affection I feel towards and from is remarkable. And it is because I found my footings and strength and the person I'm with has theirs and they respect me and love me for all my little quirks and I theirs. Their is no insecurity just confidence and laughter and love. Call me a daydreamer but I believe the more I get in touch with my self-love and what is inside me, the more likely this will be true. To feel 'whole' again... that's my dream :)

Thank you, Sisu. You are wonderful!!! It's such a pleasure to hear from you and share with you the different thoughts of our growth back and forth. May the men we love learn to manage and heal as we are working towards ourselves :)

It's Thursday!!! and the sun is shining :)

 

[May1321]

Soaking it all in...

I wasn't sure what thread I wanted to post this in.

There's been an empty pit in my heart the last few days as I haven't heard from T. I knew he had a lot going on with his father being in town and I searched my sensors to try and just calm my personal fear that it has nothing to do with me, I didn't feel as though he was being 'dishonest' with me, and just continue to work on ME and find my pieces that make me who I am and want to be.

I've started reading the "Co-Dependant No More" book as well as a couple others that kind of take thoughts off of necessarily 'fixing' me, or understanding PTSD and just inspire. These are all part of my "Cement Shoes".

Well, last night as I decided to just sort of be a 'bum' and not think about anything... get online... or even worry about working out or fixing things around my apartment... I fixed a little bite to eat, poured myself a glass of wine and settled in to watch a movie I had rented a couple of nights ago... A flurry of texts came rolling in on my phone from T.

I had mixed emotions as I was trying to just best prepare myself for continued silence the last several days, reading through posts and feeling from other's experiences and learning from their lessons. I had prepared myself for 'letting go'.

His first text said "Guess What".
I responded cautiously with a simple "What?"
He responded... "I just got my Blackberry replacement (he had dropped his in the lake fishing a couple of weekends ago) and I just got a bunch of messages from you."
His next text asked if what I had been up to and if I had a new boyfriend yet.

Apparently, any texts I sent him over the last two weeks hadn't been getting through to him. I thought since he called me last week and 'our talk' that he was distancing himself. I guess we were both feeling the 'silence'. I also kind of get the feeling he was 'checking up' on me, as I read so often on this forum from sufferers and supporters this technique of pushing away yet making sure you are true to who you say.

I thought of how my heart felt when we finished texting. It didn't feel so much like an empty pit and it did inspire me a bit to at least change the lights I had strung around my kitchen that had burnt out and I've been wanting to change for a while.

I thought about this reaction. I felt fairly mellow... not the extreme 'high' talking to T can sometimes make me feel. I've thought a lot about this time we've had where we haven't been speaking and I've been trying to disconnect. I know I don't want to 'move on' for the sake of 'moving on'. I know there are still a lot of things T and I both have to work on individually before either of us can be better for some other or each other. I think about what I truly like in someone, what I want in a relationship, what my reactions are now and should be. I didn't try texting him again. I was at peace that we are at peace and that I still have a long road till I can be completely responsible for my happiness.

Surprise Visit...

Fast forward this morning... Surprise visit to our office from T.

He came up to check on things that my boss had emailed him about. He checked one thing then came in my office and sat down. He's recovering form a cold and exhausted. His father is wearing him out. He said he's been in 'lock down' and asked if I could tell. I told him I could some. He was given a break from therapy till the 18th and yet has been trying to inforce the boundaries he was told to have with his family and work (family business) while his father is staying with him. I can't help but feel for him as I know how difficult this task especially can be for him.

He mentioned one of these days just running away to Mexico. Saying he's going to just snap and I better be ready because he's taking me with him. Away from everybody, away from everything.

Obviously - I'd go in a heart beat. I often dream of living someplace completely away from the hustle and bustle of life here. I envy my parents living on their property out in the middle of nowhere. I wish I could have a small tourist business somewhere where I don't have to necessarily fight traffic but I can still build and entertain at my pace. This is a lifestyle we both have shared a passion for which maybe isolation is related to PTSD but it is one side I see as completely normal. Maybe it is just the way I was brought up. Maybe it has as much to do with my father as I thought. I've never thought of it as a bad thing, however.

Anyhow, we chatted for a bit then I showed him one of the things that he was emailed about. He fixed a piece of it then while we weren't in sight he grabbed me by my hips from behind and pulled me into him and kissed the side of my head. He came back in and sat down in my office for a little moment longer, in a sort of silence. Said he didn't want to go back downstairs. Laughed that 'it is like he gets to come up and see the Princess but then has to return to the dungeon where he feels like one man rowing a big boat that takes 50 to row but he's the only one.'

He stared a bit longer at me and I asked him, "what?" and he said he was just taking in my pretty face. Mentioned something about I needed flowers in the vase on my desk and a picture a painting he has and thinks I'll like for the bare wall in my office. Then he left and went back to work.

It sounds like such a fairy tale "Romeo and Juliet" romance even as I write it.

I just feel overwhelmed with acceptance and belief that I'm on the right track with ME and my communication and this kindred soul in a man that I truly do love very much.

To solidify my feelings and where I'm at in this journey, I always find it Ironic when my messages are in sync. As my horoscope to my email this morning read...

"It may feel as if your relationships are extra tense these days, especially if you're not getting your needs met. Your romantic urges are strong... You would rather be working WITH someone you like than being on your own.... and impulsive Aries adds a false sense of urgency to your desires. Remember to relax; you really have more time than you think."

I know it is a funny reminder to just be patient and continue SOAKING UP THE GOOD MOMENTS but take care of you (ME) so that when and if the time truly does come and he (T) is truly the desire of my heart waiting for me on the other end of this journey to solidify making myself happy, then so be it...

Either way... this time WILL NOT be wasted!

 

[May1321]

Letting go...

I had to let him go. The anxiety has just been killing me. Like the untold truths either within myself or even him.

I just have the hardest time seeing this guy that I see who I've known all along with PTSD, who is so kind, and so giving yet thinks the worse of himself despite telling me he was the best I'd ever meet when we met.

I should've written a letter but it came up in text.

He told me he couldn't see me outside of work because he likes me too much and he would hurt my heart. That he would fall in love. He laughed when I told him he was just 'too good of a guy' and said he wasn't but that he needs to stay away till he fixes himself and how sorry he was.

The underlying truth for me is that I love him too much. He was and still is, I truly believe, everything I want.

I told him all these things in shortened text along with I know that I have to leave him alone for both of us. I told him that I truly want what is best for him and what makes him an even greater guy is he is working on his stuff.

I wish that we could work on this together, but maybe PTSD is one of those journey's that needs to be taken alone.

My heart breaks. I've done a lot of evaluating and re-evaluating over the past several days. I knew what I wanted and I know what I want. But nothing I do can change, nor do I want him to change his decision because I asked him to. But I need to let him go. I can't keep holding on waiting for him to 'change his mind'. It's not fair to either of us. I already miss him too much...

I know everyone on here is dealing with stuff like this. I feel very grateful and fortunate that I was able to know my sufferer. He truly is a really good guy.

My therapist just told me to 'just be'. I can't live in grey area though. Not like this. The long term affects of how it will hurt me and eventually him are just not healthy... especially if one day it came back around. I need to focus on a different reality. Mine... right now.

All my love.
~May

 

[amethist]

I am so sorry May, so many relationships are let go because of PTSD. I wish more could survive and be re-built with PTSD included.

Try and do some extra special things of your own for a while, new thing that you have not done before. Building up your own life again, just for you.

Just remember, even with PTSD, he is one of the good guys.

Take care of yourself.

Amethist

 

[May1321]

Thank you amethist :)

 

[May1321]

Clarification: what it meant for me 'letting go'....

It truly is sad that so many relationships fall victim of PTSD.

As I wrote my 'letting go' post, it was in the midst of the grieving and texting that was going on at that moment. I also had just left my therapy appointment earlier that day working through the pain and grieving of past wounds I had yet to confront.

I realized that I had been sitting on this fence of 'supporting'. I wanted T to heal and get better and some days I would feel just this overflowing river of love towards him as I do for myself and friends and family and nature around me. Other days, even in the same day, there was an underlying motive in my 'love' for my sufferer....

Obviously - I was hoping that after all this work, he would choose ME.

As I left my therapist and over the next 24 hours, something remarkable 'shifted' in me. In my heart. In my emotion.

I realized that in order to have the relationship I truly want, I really really need to emotionally 'let go' of what was with T and quit trying to pursuade it to work out in my favor because maybe that isn't what is supposed to be in my favor in the end after all. This underlying current and question kept nagging at me... "What if he is different? What if you put in all this work to essentially heal yourself and then you get him and you also have changed after healing and you don't want him???!"

Ideally, we are walking these parallel road of healing ourselves. To be honest, it has been me keeping up the contact. He needs me, yes, but it is not my place to keep reminding him he does - even though I don't come out and directly say that to him. Down the road, in time, if 'us' is an option on the more romantic level, then we have gotten our tools we've established in the last few months... our foundation. We'll have healed the wounds to a tolerable and manageable level within ourselves, and we'll be better suited to (as Amethist said) "re-build with the knowledge (and know how) that PTSD is included".

We all have different situations where we have to essentially 'let go'. Our sufferer 'checks out' disappears altogether and ceases contact. We mourn for a selected amount of time different to all our needs before we can finally 'let go' and truly focus all our intent upon ourselves and the lives around us.

My situation is complicated in a different way. He is still in my life. I am still his friend. He has yet to truly 'check out' and because we are not romantically involved any more, and I am 'letting go' of that within me, I don't believe that when he finally does 'check out' that I'm going to be the one he checks out from. His stress isn't me, in my case. Not any more. It is and always has been his family and the family business. Because he never let this be a part of our "relationship". He broke up with me 'emotionally' (and with the 'titles') so it has never been any where near as bad as others I've read about. I feel very grateful for this. But I am grateful also that I have sought the understanding and help I needed to 'work on myself' and 'shift my feelings' in order to be the stronger.

By 'letting go' it means that internally, I'm putting all my emotion into just being his friend AND being ME. Freeing myself up this future outlook I have for MY life to complete openess to all possibilities that will come to me as I continue to grow this love I have for myself.

The final experience...

When I text T to let him know I need to let him be, for both him and me, his response didn't come right away. It came several minutes later after I wrote my post, cried my last tears for what was closing the actual chapter on what 'we were' and preparing to go have a drink with my new co-worker which was the start to a new friendship that I have really needed in this town.

T's response was actually a surprise, I guess because I was kind of hoping I didn't have to get more into it. He responded "I'm going to get back to you in a second, I'm sorry but my dad is freaking out. xoxo"

I waited a bit and responded "You're fine. No worries. I'm always here if you need me" and TRULY felt it without worrying for the first time what was in it for me.

His response I didn't check till almost an hour later "Always need you!"

I smiled and we talked a bit about his dad and my newest adventure I just planned before saying good night and left it at that till the next day. The next day he came up to my office and we visited for a bit. He shared with me some of the stuff that has been going through his head. He has no space to deal with his own stress and is overwhelmed with the stress upon him currently. I was able to share my concern and love for him without expecting a return.

Needless to say, my sufferer and I are friends. Always have been friends. He's escaped to my office, I now see, on various occasions prior to him pursuing me and getting to know me more seriously.

He still calls me 'honey' but I am confidently looking towards my future as ME and he as a friend if he remains to be.

The night I 'let go' my girlfriend who I share my experiences of growth and this ambtion for self-healing text me and was adamant about me going to Alaska to see her this summer for her birthday. I told her of my dream of being out of debt and in love by 31 and that the out of debt part was going to happen. She affirmed my even thinking about a relationship with anyone else as... and 'In love with yourself!'... EXACTLY.

Whatever happens happens. I think the tools we learn here are so helpful in so many areas of our life. We can ask forgiveness for not properly handling past situations where our emotions and our fear ruled our lives and chased away our sufferers and learn how to take care of ourselves so we can be stronger the next time it approaches, they come back, or some one new be it friend or lover or sister or brother comes into our lives suffering.

My path with my ex has shifted IN ME. Our relationship remains as it has but may not always be. But I think I am much more prepared for the next chapter of this life.

He still calls me "honey" but so do a lot of people I've met from the south who I have no romantic connection to. I have other friends that call me "sweetie" or "hun" and even "babe".

I'm reminder of a simple saying... "Life is Life, Let Life Live".... as I'm going to. The adventure continues :)

 

[May1321]

Go Fish!

So it's been a bit since I wrote on this thread.

I have to admit that I honestly feel pretty good with how I have felt over the last couple of weeks.

I've spent 2 weeks fairly non-stop with T. It's been a sort of 'relationship' vibe but for me, I've not let my emotions get too wrapped up.

We had one tiff last weekend which was absolutely ridiculous, but I evaluated it, re-evaluated it, talked it out with my mom, and have continued to come to the same conclusion and solution. It was in regards to MY values and me sticking to them without much effort but it caused a blow-up with T. It had to do with using me as a lie to his brother to get out of doing something. I simply said "No." He was furious! This led to threats of "see if I ever help you out with your family" which had no impact on me since I would never ask him for that kind of help with my family, which made him even angrier and things just escalated from there. I asked him why he was so mad, to no avail. Things mellowed then escalated again to the giant push of 'get out of my apartment and my face or I'll be forced to leave.' I wasn't even arguing, just waiting for him to talk which was NOT going to happen and I had to remove myself from the situation because ME holding everything in was making me sick. I literally went home, threw up, and passed out in a rubble of tears.

I hate that desperate feeling. That confused and frustrated feeling. I don't want to be this person, and I realize that it is just not in me to go to bed angry... even if we are going to bed seperately. This is the tough part about establishing communication. I can't work on it in the 'midst' of the fight.

The next day, he was fine. I was glad to call him and hear he was doing something FOR HIMSELF. I went out to the shop to visit him and we actually were having a nice day. He asked for a kiss when I got there and I let him kiss my cheek - distancing myself. I sat in a chair in the sunshine listening to the radio and drinking my tea. I was leaning back in the chair with my face to the sun and my eyes closed and he stole another kiss.

We had a nice visit but I left him to go shopping where I bought myself some new dress sandals. Later on, after grocery shopping, I went home and was straightening up and asked if he was still interested in buying my fish tank since I'm no good at keeping fish alive, I've discovered.

He came over, picked up the tank and me. He wanted my help finding a fish so we went shopping.

I was keeping to myself and keeping quiet and he asked if I was afraid to talk to him because of his PTSD blow-ups. I told him 'yes'. (Of course.) I asked him if I could say something without him getting mad and he said 'o.k.' I explained that I can tolerate the PTSD symptoms as I understand them which the night before was the anxiety rising and the need for me to leave. I will not tolerate the manipulative and angry behaviour that is him acting like his dad which is why we he got mad at me in the first place.

That was that and the rest of the week's been pretty good.

Progress = He did mention one night that his family thinks that I gave him all the fish stuff. He followed that up and said 'I know you don't approve but it is just something I have to do right now until I get through this and am able to say what I feel to them without the fear of the conflict'. I thought this was a good thing... that he at least recognizes and doesn't push my values, and even though he didn't tell his family the truth, he knows that he wants to be able to in the future and it's a goal he's set for himself with his therapy.