Help - I Think I Just Lost A Friend. Again.

[The Albatross]

Her distancing, to me spoke volumes FoN. Switching topics, etc. I was tempted earlier last night to say it was denial... but think it has more to do with her indirectly trying to guide you away from her romantic relationship... sort of as a way to express it's not a place she wants you to go.

Really at issues is how this is affecting your relationship with her. Maybe clarify your thoughts a bit more? Decide if, her continuing relationship with this guy or not, or how... you can be a friend but not a care taker. What it would look like, what would need to change?

 

[freakofnurture]

We spoke tonight and I'm really confused now. Because now I'm feeling like I'm the one who didn't treat her well.

trying to guide you away from her romantic relationship... sort of as a way to express it's not a place she wants you to go.

Yes, that's exactly the impression I got from how she behaved today.

What I don't understand is why she didn't tell me directly. I asked her if she wanted me to shut up. I said "If you want me to leave the topic alone, just say it." She didn't reply and went offline without saying another word while I was afk eating dinner.

(EDIT: And it can't be that she let me ramble because she thought I'd leave her if she didn't let me verbally kill M. I told her we could still talk, just not about M because I wouldn't be able to stop hating on him and wanting to protect her from him; and if she really wants me to stay out of her relationship that'd be close to exactly what she wanted anyways.)

Maybe she really has calmed down and is now just processing stuff at her own pace. But how can I just assume that that's what's happening when just five minutes before that she did things she knows aren't good for her, and when the general pace and tone of this whole catastrophe was one of desperation, panic and "I know it's killing me but I can't help it!" All those months, and especially the last few weeks of her relationship she quite literally begged me to stay with her and help her through this, and so I did. She told me she needed to hear the rough things I had to say, it seemed that my approach was helpful for dragging herself out of the mindset that was hurting her.

How am I supposed to know that she needs a change in pace when she doesn't tell me? And I asked her how she feels, I asked her what happened, I offered her plenty of opportunities to tell me why to back off, or how things have changed, but she didn't take them. I feel like I made a total idiot of myself by over dramatising the situation, and that I hurt her in the process.

I'm really about to swear off ever again having any form of opinion about what other people do, unless they explicitly ask me to state it, every single time. I'll never ever again say what I think unless I'm asked. Maybe that's how things ought to be in the first place.
(EDIT: The funny thing is, at one point some weeks ago she got really frustrated because I refused to state an opinion regarding M's behaviour because I didn't feel like I had a sufficient amount of data to build an opinion upon. She even suspected that I was only saying what I think she wanted to hear because I was so hesitant and careful in telling her how I think 'things are'.)

Goddamnit, just when I think I have figured out what's the right thing to do in a certain situation I mess up like a total douche.

EDIT: I'm obviously unable to deal with having made a mistake in a social setting, even if the circumstances were such that there was no way for me to not make it.

 

[The Albatross]

FoN... ahem. Uh, YOU didn't mess up... you were trying to paddle for the both of you, and she was taking a passive role. It makes no sense, because your feedback didn't make sense... sabe? Comprende? Good. It's a living thing, a relationship... an exchange, it takes two. You can't pour words into a vacuum and feel ... well... much of anything except frustrated or confused. Exactly what you are right now, right?

 

[The Albatross]

Hey reference your edit. You got nothing to feel bad about, you were coming from a kind and compassionate place. Stuff happens... it is what it is, it was what it was? It's her turn to talk to you, or continue to avoid. Two attempts, let her process for a while, and hopefully even if it's not spoken directly she'll initiate some change and you'll still have a friendship, but with a reduction in your stress level and care taking role?

 

[freakofnurture]

Thank you, Albatross. Your reply does me good.

I'm too scared of accidentally blaming other people for my mistakes or act like they 'made' me behave this or that way. The basic idea is very good and right, but that fear shouldn't be there. That fear is from my trauma, that's for certain - "Never ever blame daddy for anything that happens between the two of you."

EDIT: (What's it with the edits today?) I wrote S. an email, asking her to directly tell me next time what she needs or doesn't need. She knows from experience that I do back off, stop, etc. when she directly tells me that that's what she really wants and thinks is right for her.

 

[The Albatross]

Just know that even if she blows the wrong (unintended) way and starts distancing.... your motives and intent were caring and you were trying to be a good friend. How she interprets it is up to her now. But... friendships, marriages, partnerships, the lasting genuine kind are 50/50 give and take, forgiving when necessary and also able to problem solve together without skipping out.

 

[freakofnurture]

@Albatross: The strange thing is that, unless she steps into one of my traumas I don't react emotionally to anything she does or feels. I'm happy when I can be helpful and that's what I strive for, but if tomorrow she told me that she isn't interested in a friendship with me anymore, even if it were just a short text, it wouldn't touch me. I'd ask if she's sure about it, if something happened or I did something wrong, but aside from that I'd just say something like "Okay, but before you off yourself, give me a call." and then go on with my life as if nothing much had happened.

It doesn't really fit together. Here a hysterical carer, there stone cold and disinterested.

 

[The Albatross]

Sounds like you're protective mechanism.? Protecting from loss? It can't be lack of empathy.

 

[freakofnurture]

Empathy is something I do with my rational mind. It doesn't just happen like in healthy people, even when there's something going on that I have experienced myself sometime. I know what to say, I can analyse and synthesise the logic of emotions pretty well because I do a lot of research on how people experience things. But I don't feel anything unless I willfully project myself into the emotional situation the other person is in.

I do automatically smile though, when I watch a movie and there's someone smiling or laughing.

I don't know if there's a relationship between empathy and bonding, so maybe one is because of the other, but I generally don't bond. I feel that I've bonded with my husband but outside of that I'm floating free. For example: I wouldn't feel like crying about my best friend's untimely demise although she was my first friend after seven years that I spent completely alone. I'd find it a pity because we work well together and I like her, but there'd be no feeling of loss.

EDIT: What drained me about caring for S. was that I barely had time alone and that I had to listen to the same stuff over and over and over again. It didn't make me sad that she was so down; after I hung up I didn't even think about her anymore. I do feel about people, but not with people.

 

[BloomInWinter]

(((((FON))))

What you are describing doesn't seem like 'friendship' but 'co-dependence.'

In friendship, we accept each other's life choices and only offer advice when asked.

In friendship, we don't expect our friends to use up their energy solving the problems in our other relationships.

In friendship, there is laughter, fun, open communication, and we feel healthier and more at peace after speaking or being with them.

In friendship, when not together, we live our life and trust them to be living theirs.

As you set your boundaries, you will experience healthier and healthier friendships.

Good for you for examining this friendship. Even if she doesn't change, the way you experience the friendship will feel better.

Hang in there!

 

[heidi]

Well, when things get overwhelming it's really natural to just not care. Or mostly when it's so complicated..

As for the person in her life who is bad news. Happens to everyone. And people never take advice when emotion are involved. But when your friends start getting exasperated with you, and growing frustrated, it's part of the process of realizing things are pretty f'ed up.

 

[The Albatross]

I'm the other way... I tend to over empathize... an emotional sponge. Taking on other peoples stuff, I think in large part because of the fractured sense of self. It's getting better, but I have to really work to maintain a sense of autonomy and boundaries in my relationships. I have to stay in my body and remember that where "I" stop is at the bottom of my feet, top of my head and the end of my nose. But I think that in large part it was because I had still, unconditional love of my maternal grandparents.

FoN, I can really relate to what you shared about using your rational mind to empathize... because that is what I do to just participate in my life each day. I have to use my rational mind to override my proclivity for agoraphobia or my numbing out with alcohol. Because I feel, about half of the time now (improved some over the years) too much.

It sounds like you and I are trying and using a lot of effort to aim for the middle.