News Homophobia And Low Intelligence Are Linked, Study Finds

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ms spock

Sponsor
Sorry - I mean, calling bigotry and racism and prejudice "dumb" is a mistake because it's reductive. We should use the words for the crimes themselves.
That would be optimum.

But that is not what happens.
Really didn't say it.
You didn't say it, this is true.
I'd really like people to acknowledge their own racism. I want bigotry to stop. And I believe that putting any energy into calling racists or homophobes or bigots "dumb" is a mistake because it lessens the blow.
You have a point there.
Instead, we should call it what it is. It's criminal. Cruel. Unfair. Unjust. The guy who killed people in Atlanta this morning wasn't "dumb". He was a murderer, full stop.
This is true.
I actually think we're on the same side of this argument, @ms spock.
I would agree with that.
My big point has to do with making people call it what it is, that's all. I believe that we cannot truly eradicate racism in America if we don't call it precisely what it is. We need to get used to the word for it.
This is true, but it is not what happens, and having a laugh about it is a sanity saving way of engaging with a type of resilience. When I was 15, the police in uniform, FOUR police officers, raped an Aboriginal woman with a broken bottle as the students from my school walked past, on the way to school. They did it in broad daylight and there wasn't going to be any justice. There still isn't any justice. So humour is a way to manage dealing with the fears of leaving the house to walk past the police station to go to school. We had to walk past the police all the time, and we never knew what was going to happen.

Every week I hear from different women, about which women have been raped by police this week. It's an ongoing discussion. It is just life. Thus the humour about the dumbness of it all.
(By "we", I mean everyone who has not been subjected to it, i.e. we euro-white Americans. I can only speak from my own experience in the country I live in, and from the perspective that I've grown up in. Also, I respect that there are opinions different from my own. This is just how I see it, in my day-to-day.)
I respect your opinion and thank you for engaging with me.
 

ms spock

Sponsor
My gut is telling me that we need to shift the focus to that of what it takes to let all people feel secure and have the opportunity to succeed.
In the real world that is what I do, it's an important part of what I do with my life.

At the same time you have to be able to laugh about it all, at times, or you will go mad, or never leave the house again.

You have to have the energy to support people on the edge of intergenerational social change who cop it from within and outside their communities - at times from outside their communities with death threats. I am not willing to cater to white fragility in all arenas of my life though. White folks need to get used to that uncomfortability that everyone else deals with all day every day. It's time.

I think that we both have a very similar way of dealing with folks in our lives. We just have very different senses of humour, and different life experiences when dealing with these issues.
 
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intothelight

Moderator
At it's base I think your severe trauma as a child has meant you are being really concrete in your thinking and not seeing the abstract thinking and humour that goes with where I sit with this.

Never make assumptions or excuses about someone else as that is extremely insulting and belittling. You may explain your position from your point of reference, but do not project anything onto me. No, I did not see the "humor" in the article and belittling any group in the name of humor is unacceptable as it is just a different form of prejudice.
 
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ms spock

Sponsor
I apologise for belittling you @intothelight. That was not my intention. I talked to my psychiatrist about the situation and she said that many people with severe early childhood trauma often lacked capacity for humour, it was my way of trying to understanding, your extremely upsetting to me, comments.

I cannot for the life of me understand how you think that it's the hardest thing to be a white, evangelical, heterosexual man in America, when other folks are literally dying from the bigotry, prejudice and racism. So that was my way of making sense of your comments. Because I cannot understand how you are seeing things the way that you are.


 
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intothelight

Moderator
@ms spock I never said it was the "hardest" thing, as I said right now it is the "worst" thing as this group is being degraded, villainized and stereotyped in the media and by a variety of groups. It just seems like its OK to do with this group just what many other marginalized people have had done to them. Yes, the article on violence directed towards Asians is very true. My SIL is Chinese and their family was terrorized by a group of black youth tossing out racial slurs and blaming them for the virus as they walked out without paying for their food and trashing the restaurant. My daughter was the only one who would leave the house for months to buy groceries as the fears and threats were real. It wasn't only black youth but white youth. My daughter was even afraid to take my granddaughter out for a walk; so yes, I've had it affect my family first hand. The problems that are created with ignorance and incessant pounding of negative news.

Now my question to you is how does villainizing white men and blaming them for all of societies ills help? My grandson is 15 and yes he is a white male and I would hope as he is taught tolerance and respect for all people that he would feel that society affords him the same. I don't find any of the issues surrounding prejudice, racism, blaming, fear mongering, etc. at all humorous. It has nothing to do with trauma and has everything to do with my deep concern over how hate is spread. I'm more concerned why someone is racist and what can be done to change this and turn the tide of hate.

I just am seeing what many people are denouncing and working to change be propagated on another group. I guess its human nature to have a scape goat, but I was hoping many of us were way past that point.
 

ms spock

Sponsor
@ms spock I never said it was the "hardest" thing, as I said right now it is the "worst" thing as this group is being degraded, villainized and stereotyped in the media and by a variety of groups.
Oh come on Deb. Asian Americans were just killed because a white guy was "having a bad day".

I feel really attacked by you and gotten at and really hurt to be honest. I feel bewildered as it feels like you are being so nasty and vicious towards me. I am not engaging with this with you again. I will keep out of your diary and leave you alone if this is how poorly you think of me.

Enabling a sense of entitlement is not going to stop white men from killing people for whatever reason - homophobia this week, being Black and trans (also most every week in the US now).

No white guys are losing their lives just because someone wants to vent their bad feelings which have been hurt.

A bit of perspective and proportion is in order here.

White guys are literally killing people every few days and folks cannot have a bit of a sanity saving laugh at the bigotry and prejudice that curtail their lives?

It just seems like its OK to do with this group just what many other marginalized people have had done to them.
Where are they body counts of white men? Please point them to me? This is really out of perspective and proportion of what I am saying.

It seems the fear of some people being mocked and laughed and their feelings being hurt is more important than other people's literal lives. There is no comparison.

Yes, the article on violence directed towards Asians is very true. My SIL is Chinese and their family was terrorized by a group of black youth tossing out racial slurs and blaming them for the virus as they walked out without paying for their food and trashing the restaurant. My daughter was the only one who would leave the house for months to buy groceries as the fears and threats were real. It wasn't only black youth but white youth. My daughter was even afraid to take my granddaughter out for a walk; so yes, I've had it affect my family first hand. The problems that are created with ignorance and incessant pounding of negative news.
I know people who have been killed. Literally they are dead. Not their feelings being hurt other place of privilege being questioned or occasionally are being laughed at. There's just no comparison. They are no longer alive because white men were "having a bad day" or had some perceived something is being taken from them. Enabling a sense of entitlement is not going to stop white men from killing minority people for whatever reason - homophobia this week, being Black and trans (also every week in the US now).
Now my question to you is how does villainizing white men and blaming them for all of societies ills help?
This is WhatAboutism and I am not playing this game. You are twisting my original post out of it's context - which is about survival.
My grandson is 15 and yes he is a white male and I would hope as he is taught tolerance and respect for all people that he would feel that society affords him the same.
I am so sorry if your white grandson has suffered trauma and devestation due to his whiteness. I didn't know he had been attacked and abused. That's terrible.
I don't find any of the issues surrounding prejudice, racism, blaming, fear mongering, etc. at all humorous.
When you lose people to it - or support people who are being attacked or at high risk of being attacked due to their roles in the community you learn to have a laugh about it from time to time. Perhaps before jumping in to the perceived slights of white men have some compassion for people who live with the trauma of actual prejudice and bigotry. Look at those that have lost their lives, loved ones, housing, employment, the ability to walk etc rather than this imaged white fragility stuff.
It has nothing to do with trauma and has everything to do with my deep concern over how hate is spread. I'm more concerned why someone is racist and what can be done to change this and turn the tide of hate.
In my opinion not giving those that actually suffer from it actual compassion might be part of the problem. I feel very attacked and put down by you and I have stopped coming to myptsd because of your attacks on me here. I am not even allowed to have my own opinons and reality which is extremely hurtful to me. I feel totally silenced and like there is so space for me to even breathe on this forum. This is burning up my nervous system and I can't cope with it anymore.
I just am seeing what many people are denouncing and working to change be propagated on another group. I guess its human nature to have a scape goat, but I was hoping many of us were way past that point.
Well given how attacked I feel by you I think we have little chance of getting there. What I am hearing you say is that deaths, that's part of life, we have to live with that, but questioning or unpacking white male privilege that leads to those deaths - well we can't do that if it upsets the white men.

I feel like I have no place to be on this forum anymore. So it's time to leave.
 

Friday

Moderator
No white guys are losing their lives just because someone wants to vent their bad feelings which have been hurt.
Bullshit.

The only person I have read in this thread spewing narrow minded, inflexible, toxic racist/sexist dogma... is YOU.

Over, and over, and over again.

As someone who grew up as an extreme minority, who has worked genocides on THREE continents, who has lived in ghettos and slums eyeballs deep in both gangland & institutionalised violence... I have tried over and over again for weeks to write some kind of calm/reasoned response to your increasingly hateful posts. So f*ck it. There is nothing I can say that will even dent your belief of the evil of one race. So I won’t even try. But I DO call bullshit on your increasingly racist remarks and attitudes.
 

EveHarrington

MyPTSD Pro
ms Spock

your link to the list of trans people killed is misleading. Not all of those people were killed BECAUSE they were trans. Look into the 16 year old who was killed by their mother. The mom had PTSD and killed both of her kids. The kid wasn’t killed due to being trans. The older kid wasn’t trans and she was killed too. This kind of “journalism” irks me because it skews facts to fit an agenda.
 
It's possible to condemn racist and sexist attacks without becoming racist and sexist yourself.

It's not always easy. We just had a guy shoot 10 people in Colorado and the first thing Twitter did was to condemn all white men. Whoops, turned out the guy wasn't white at all. The amount of "OK, but" after that did no one any favors.

Reducing anyone to their race and gender for any reason will fail to tell the entire story. It's easy, though, which is why people do it. But it's only a short leap from condemning a perpetrator because of their race and gender to blaming that entire race and gender for perpetrating. Easy to do, and it makes everyone else feel better about themselves, but it's wrong.
 
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joeylittle

Administrator
folks cannot have a bit of a sanity saving laugh at the bigotry and prejudice that curtail their lives?
You might find humor helps you cope. People can't mind-read your intentions. You apparently meant your OP to be taken ironically. It wasn't. Then, you doubled down on critiquing other members' statements...but statements that were never actually made.

If you want to leave over this, that's fine - that's your choice. Or, you can stay - also, that's fine, and it's also your choice. Just be clear that you're doing a lot of mind-reading and expecting it in return. That's the majority of the argument going on in this thread.

You think it's funny. Other people don't see the humor. Then, you tell other people what they are thinking, using some convoluted rhetoric. And are surprised when they push back.

Time to take a break.
 
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