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News Hooray! Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!!!!

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Ms. Spock said: I am against the death penalty and I was angry that they killed an unarmed man.
So many people on both sides of this issue have pain. So many families do not have their loved ones anymore. There is pain on all sides. So many people hurting. Maybe we need to keep in sight that we are a PTSD forum and we need to think of all the victims.

Yes indeed AngelaMarie,
Thankyou
ms spock

Hopefully there are Muslims somewhere who will volunteer to take her in and will be smart enough to get her the help she will certainly need. Not to mention the help she will need as far as getting deprogrammed from all the hatred that she has had to hear all her life being told to her by her own father.

I. too, hope she gets help.

Yes being deprogrammed from all that would be like leaving a cult.

That is really insightful. It would be very hard indeed.

ms spock

femalevetaran:
Maybe we must ask ourselves why we wouldn't have our children with us to love them and be with them everyday. Especially if we knew we were being hunted by navy seals.

In this case there was choice about having your children there and not having your children there with you. If you live in a war torn country then you have no choice. You have to have your children with you.

ms spock

But whatever the case I do feel for the girl because she was an innocent bystander in all of this. Hopefully she will get the help she needs. However, having been a veteran of Iraq and seeing how litttle girls are thought of as less than even the animals the families keep i doubt she will get much help at all.

Well that must have been so hard to witness. That little girls are not valued by their family.

No attack coming from me....everybody is entitled to their opinion. I just know that this whole war on terror needs to end and I left alot of good friends in Iraq who died due to the actions of this man and his minions on 9-11 and I am glad he is dead. For that I make no apologies. But I can also understand and respect the opinions of others with regards to the whole situation as well. So no attacking from me at all.

You have a very generous heart femaleveteran. I appreciate your generosity. It must have been very hard to have gone through what you have gone through.

The actions of people like my father are probably confounding for you to read. I mean no disrespect to you. My experience of the military has just been very different.

Losing friends like that must be so hard. I have no idea how that would feel.

ms spock
 
that is okay Ms Spock. I am very glad that no one other than those that had to, had to witness what I did. I grew up in a very dysfunctional family where when i was 18 years old and aged out of foster care there was only one place to go besides the street and that was to the military. i made something out of my self there and became a medical warrant officer and I wish i had never had to witness any type of war but after being deployed not just to iraq but having been previously deployed to places like bosnia and kosovo and haiti... as well as the first gulf war, I was glad it was me and not someone with a family and kids who had to see what I saw. My dad was a Vietnam veteran and came back totally screwed up and that is why I had to grow up the way I did.

But I like to think that at least now I can spend the remainder of my life making ammends for being a part of such things and I can spend the rest of my life trying to help people in the way I wish I had been able to from the very beginning of my adult life. I do not and never will regret my military service, and I am quite proud of it, but I also have no illusions about it nor am I a glory hound. I did what I needed to do in order to elevate my self to a better station in life and i was also a medic in the military and later a medical warrant officer (a college trained Physicians assisstant) so i like to think that I helped as many people as I was capable of and that includes a great many Iraqi Muslims who came through my medic tent during my three and half tours in Iraq. They got the best care I could give them as if they were a part of my own military force and I can honestly say most of them are alive to day as a result of the efforts of my self and my medical team.

But I understand exactly where you are coming from and while i hope you do not hold my choice of a career against me, I will never hold your views against you either.
Cheers,
FV
 
Oh no femaleveteran,

I would never hold your career against you. Your career was the only way out of the cycle of poverty. I get that.

You were clever to get in to something that gave you options. I live in poverty myself, and that is no fun at all. I am struggling to get out of that which is very hard when you have no family to give you a leg up.

You saved lives and that is very noble in itself!

We don't have to agree on anything really - as long as we respect each other's position. But I feel like you see me and get me and I feel heard by you. I hope you feel the same in some small way.

I know I typed it before but I do admire your generosity of heart.

ms spock

after being deployed not just to iraq but having been previously deployed to places like bosnia and kosovo and haiti... as well as the first gulf war, I

Cheers,
FV

Gosh Bosnia, Kosovo and Haiti - *shakes head* - that must have been so hard. I have friends that are refugees from those places.

ms spock
 
It's the new cool thing to hate America. Everybody's doing it, hop on board. Hell, even I'm doing it.

But you can bet your ass not one f*cking person over there is concerned about "oil". I never signed up and went, well, f*ck! Now I gotta get some goddamn oil! No. I went cause I knew I could do something. Everybody goes because they know they can do something and enough people go, guess what? Shit gets done.

You guys are all thinking so damn large, but the truth of the matter is, you're giving people more credit than they deserve. They're standing on the streets, day in and day out, trying to do something. They're looking at civilians. They're looking at kids. Teachers. Store owners. While kids are being raised to hate America like we're motherf*cking Satan himself. It's like to religion over there. It's difficult to weigh in on this but whatever, keep going.

It's like this, when you're not in it, you can look at it from above in your giant microscope of concocted conspiracy. You can, really, because it's so small and objective and you can analyze it and observe. Come up with "reasons" why we're there.

Ask anyone who's come back from Afghanistan and they'll tell you the exact same thing I'm telling you. They'll say they went over to "defend our country". Yeah, because that's what we're taught to believe. But the truth of the matter is, we go over there so we can build the schools. So that we can decontaminate their water and food supplies. So that we can educate. Heal. Prevent. Disarm. We hold the line. I used to have to walk 14 miles twice a day (That's 12 hours a day) to deliver supplies to a CMH that dealt with Iraqi civilians. And yes, that was with an infantry unit.We did not go over to "blow shit up" or "get oil" or "Get Osama" or any other thing. We went over there to do what we could.

Some days, that meant fighting. A lot. Fighting people who think we're doing shit we aren't doing. Fighting people who are spreading false ideology through fear tactics and civilian casualties. Believe me. I understand exactly what happens. It isn't pretty. It isn't scenic. This war, though - it's between people. It's just between people. Some days that means it's between you and getting a kid across the street, or it's between you and a terrorist with his hand on the button, or a kid with a bomb who thinks what he's doing is meaningful. Or it's between you and your will to survive when you forget what the f*ck is going on, or why this land is so god damned important.

Most days, it means helping in whatever way we could.

That's why people go over there, and anybody who says any different is just a f*cking asshole. I used to know a guy who gave his justification as "I went over to shoot some f*cking terrorists". 2 days later, he was dead. That justification does not hold up. Anywhere. Yes, people are f*cking pissed about what happened in 9/11. A lot of people probably joined up for that reason alone, but this war has been going on a damned long time and 9/11 is the icing on the cake, in all honesty.

For the record, Al-Qaeda is typically only used in its Arabic sense, but in its Urdu sense, one of the meanings is "Habit". As in, habitat. Culturally it's difficult to explain, but I could see how you might get "toilet" out of that. It's one of the basic precepts of living. It's a misinterpretation. The word Al-Qaeda actually comes from Qa'idat al-Jihad, which means The center of holy war. Toilet in Arabic is hamman.

Rest assured, no one is going around asking to use "The Al-Qaeda" in their family homes. Even if Al-Qaeda meant "To shit a thousand bricks of fire", it wouldn't be used as a colloquialism anywhere. It's been immortalized, so it means what it means.

To me, war is the most damaging thing a Human being can go through. There is nothing that can replicate it in normal existence. So yeah, some people are pretty god damned happy that UBL is dead. If I still gave a shit, I'd be happy too.
 
I have read 42 of the 44 pieces of state legislation on terrorism in Australia and it makes me very scared indeed. The legislation allows for the detainment of a "non suspect" person for 7 days with a strict liability sentence of 25 years if you complain about "mistreatment," tell a partner, employer, family or friend where you were and what happened to you.
Simple... don't be a terrorist in this country. Be bad here, get spanked hard. Just like the difference with respecting police here... some countries, people can ignore them, close the door on them, etc... do so here, you can be arrested / fined for not following a police officers direction if on duty. Respect...
 
It is not that simple Anthony. I am not a terrorist and in no way would support anyone who is a terrorist.

These laws start an one end of the spectrum and then they spread out. It is most worrying.

ms spock
 
IMO, it is that simple actually.

I had the ability to shoot people onsight in a conflict, but having that power doesn't mean its your first action taken. If I took it, I would still have to justify it later on to someone higher... just like ASIO here do... they aren't the top of the food chain, and they report upwards when they take action according to the powers they have.

People in Australia don't just get arrested for terrorism without damn good reason. If you don't do something aligned with it, then you have nothing to worry about... it really is that simple.
 
Sea,

I have a right to my own opinion just as you do. I never once mentioned our troops going over there to get oil. But yes, I do believe this war began because of it. I appreciate your opinions on the subject and maybe you should do the same for mine. I understand that this is a topic a lot of people feel passionate about but that does not give you the right to attack my statements. You can comment on anything you want to that I said...However, you should use caution when responding. I respect your opinions and I ask that you do the same for me. You can't go around calling people f-cking a$$holes just because their opinions differ from yours.

I have anger issues just like you do. And so do a lot of other people on here. But I keep myself in check when I am writing on here. Remember...we are ALL suffering from this illness not just you.
 
That was not directed at you, personally, Adrienne.

I apologize if you think it was. It was directed at the "You of in general". I wasn't attacking anyone's statements at all, actually, because my response was solely based on my own opinions of the American public who think we're in this war for money and oil and all that. Not you, personally. You can believe in whatever you wish. When I use "you", I am referring to the American public.

I was not attacking any statement you made at all, I was actually just bringing in my own statements, with my own viewpoints, solely distinct from any others viewpoints, and bringing in from a different perspective.

I am sorry if you think I was referring to you in my response. I truly was not. What might have made you seem like I was, was when I just wished to point out the true origin of the meaning of Al-Qaeda. But in the end, that was just directed at the "General you" as well. The "general you" being the general population. Not you, yourself.

Not at you, personally. I would not do such a thing. I think I can even back up that statement by the fact that I used "you guys", in my initial address. You are entitled to believe whatever it is you wish, your opinions are your own and therefore they are as valid as any other opinion that exists. And that applies to everybody here. You're entitled to your own opinion, I'm entitled to bring my own perspective.

I am sorry I am terrible at communicating. And I have probably f*cked up once again one of the few connections I managed to gain. But I honestly didn't mean to offend you, in fact, I was not referring to you at all when I was speaking. I was just going mostly off of all the posts really beforehand, dealing with how we are in this war for "oil" or "money" or "greed" or "killing terrorists" or any such thing. I don't know if I make much sense anymore. My brain is a mess.

Just know that while I know you feel disrespected right now, I truly was not referring to you personally. I wouldn't do something like that. If I were talking to you, or anybody, personally in relation to something I generally would have used their name, like you did with me when you addressed me.
 
It's cool Sea. You mentioned a whole lot of things I put in my posts so I think you can see how I would take it a little bit as a dig at me. I do believe otherwise so maybe that does make me a f-cking a$$hole but I am who I am. I believe you didn't intend to attack. I wouldn't hate on you or think you were being malicious. I know you are going through a difficult time right now. No worries. Take care of yourself. And for the record...I wouldn't abandon you over something like this. I will continue to read your diary and support you.
 
IMO, it is that simple actually.

I had the ability to shoot people onsight in a conflict, but having that power doesn't mean its your first action taken. If I took it, I would still have to justify it later on to someone higher... just like ASIO here do... they aren't the top of the food chain, and they report upwards when they take action according to the powers they have.

People in Australia don't just get arrested for terrorism without damn good reason. If you don't do something aligned with it, then you have nothing to worry about... it really is that simple.

IMHO it is definitely not that simple.

Ah there are fourteen security agencies in Australia Anthony.

So it therefore doesn't follow that ASIO is the head of the food chain.

ONA, ASIO and ASIS, AFP etc are not like the FBI and the CIA. Many people have written histories of the FBI and CIA - there is not the information to do so in Australia. There are many differences.

Haneef highlighted some of the issues that I am concerned with.

On this one I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

Cheers,
ms spock
 
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