How do you define "love"?

[lostforgottensoul]

So bringing it back down to people and attitudes and how did you spend time, that made the difference

Hmmm. Would have to think about it but keeping them seperate from religon is a good idea as that's where things get really muddy. Will kick this around a bit and get back to ya on the first question. Because, the only thing I can think of at the moment is escaping the cult. They weren't them. Ya know? So, other then that I'm not sure yet. But will kick it around some and come back at ya with it. Though a ton to think about.

Thanks @Ronin and @Abstract! Will kick this all around a bit and be back.

 

[EveHarrington]

To me, love is an action.

I’ve had so many guys tell me that they loved me, but it was just because I made them feel good (sexually, emotionally). This isn’t love.

I think I’ve had two guys actually/genuinely love me.

Love is when you care about someone. You want the best for them (even if it isn’t you).

I think MANY people still don’t know what love is. It’s not a question of being young and unaware. I’ve had young guys, older guys, and guys in between....give me the “I love you” line just because I make them feel warm inside, even though they never actually cared about me beyond how I made them feel.

This is an interesting topic. I’m dissociated AF so I’ll be back later.

 

[Deanna]

My key to love is knowing someone for about three years first. So, my definition of love would be time. With time, you build trust and really get to know someone. As much as everyone thinks love is instantaneous.. For me.. It's not. Love is time and willing to commit to that time which builds trust and understanding.. I'm currently close to someone that has PTSD as myself. I understand that.

To me, love is an action.

I’ve had so many guys tell me that they loved me, but it was just because I made them feel good (sexually, emotionally). This isn’t love.

I think I’ve had two guys actually/genuinely love me.

Love is when you care about someone. You want the best for them (even if it isn’t you).

I think MANY people still don’t know what love is. It’s not a question of being young and unaware. I’ve had young guys, older guys, and guys in between....give me the “I love you” line just because I make them feel warm inside, even though they never actually cared about me beyond how I made them feel.

This is an interesting topic. I’m dissociated AF so I’ll be back later.

Sorry, Eva. Here's hoping you'll be in a good place in a minute. Understand how you feel.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

What were the THEM qualities and the way that treated you and others that stood out, that made them worth returning to, that helped? :)

I think always. Kick stuff around. While making Chopper's food (finishing up the raw we still have) I was thinking. What made me want to return there? A big thing was acceptance. Acceptance of how I was and they didn't ask me to change. That's been my biggest hurdle with most christians that I've met. This last pastor that I was in touch with that abandoned me and made me give up trying to figure out all the religious crap in my head. The biggest thing that hurt was that he threw jabs at me. At how I was and left because I refused to change. Not like change in the way we do here on the site but change who I was. I wasn't willing to do that so he threw hurtful daggers and left. That was sort of the end all to me seeking out pastors for help with all the religous stuff. But, though they had no idea I was in a cult, mentors back then didn't ask me to change anything and accepted the broken pieces of me. Sort of like how you see in a movie of one partner kissing the other's scar in acceptance. It was like that but mentally. I knew that though they didn't know all of what was going on (though they had suspcions and asked a lot and I refused to admit anything) they still accepted me how I was. Its unusal, in my experience, for christians. But, they did. And that was my biggest draw there. I could be me. Just me. Not cult me or "christian posing" me but just me.

Love is when you care about someone. You want the best for them (even if it isn’t you).

It's weird for me cause I get that, but it's one sided. I can see me wanting the best for others. Even if that means I'm not in the picture. Giving others what I can. I can see me loving and caring about others but I can't see it the other way. And then "deserving" and "worthy" get in the way which is annoying as my therapist saya it's bigger then that but they won't move out of my way. Grrr!

I think MANY people still don’t know what love is. It’s not a question of being young and unaware. I’ve had young guys, older guys, and guys in between....give me the “I love you” line just because I make them feel warm inside, even though they never actually cared about me beyond how I made them feel.

Psh, right? Been there too!

For me it's sexual as well. Love still equals sex to me but trying to ignore that part of my brain as at this point I can sort of see past that.

trust

Trust. Yes. I can see trust in there. Trying to paint a mental picture so, so far, I have acceptance as I am and trust. Hmmm, ok, I can kick that around more.

ETD: Also, purpose. The christian youth center gave me purpose. A reason to fight and not let them kill me (or me kill them and then myself which I had planned at 13 and my male mentor talked me out of...though he thought it was just a suicide and had no idea of the murder part of it). But, I can throw purpose and a reason in there. A reason to fight. A reason to live.

 

[Sideways]

I’m trying really hard to follow along, but I keep banging my brain against the initial premise that your T has proposed: that love is a need which is as essential to us as drawing breath.

I don’t buy it. It sounds really nice. But it doesn’t have a lot of truth to it. And the more I dwell on it, the more I think “That’s the kind of thing a person would say if they were always loved as a child...”.

I had the benefit of being loved as a child. But when you reflect on your personal history, there was a long time there where you managed to sustain yourself without any real trace of genuine love. You survived for a long time without it.

So, maybe I’d agree that love is one of those things that enriches our life and makes our existence worthwhile and have purpose. In that case, love is going to be something you’ll probably find in the relationships that give you a purpose, and make your existence more than just about survival.

But ultimately, your T is wrong. This forum is testament to the fact that many people have survived long periods without love. And if that’s the case, then I’d be asking your T to elaborate. It makes sense to me that you’re scratching your head about this, because based on your own lived experience, it simply isn’t true.

Is your T trying to say that you weren’t really surviving those years of trauma that you went through? Is he saying that you weren’t really ‘alive’? Or that you’re somehow ‘incomplete’ till you have love? I don’t think he intends to be invalidating, but it might help to get him to be a bit more specific and use a bit less rhetoric...??

 

[scout86]

You survived for a long time without it.

I don't think her T is talking about just surviving. I say that because I've had this exact conversation with my T more than once. You can SURVIVE without love, but the ability to love and be loved is part of being a complete human being. Or so he tells me.

And "loving" and "being loved" are very much two different things. Or, they're the mirror image of each other, in a way.

@lostforgottensoul , the "being loved" part is those feelings you are capable of having for someone else, headed back towards you. You're right, it's complicated. There's the whole question of deserving it or earning it. Supposedly, with the real deal, that's not part of it. And, if you don't feel loved, there's the question of "Why not?" which usually is a version of "What's wrong with me?" because it seems like somehow it must be your fault. It's complicated, for sure. Good luck figuring it out!

 

[Deanna]

being loved" part is those feelings you are capable of having for someone else, headed back towards you. You're right, it's complicated. There's the whole question of deserving it or earning it. Supposedly, with the real deal, that's not part of it. And, if you don't feel loved, there's the question of "Why not?" which usually is a version of "What's wrong with me?" because it seems like somehow it must be your fault. It's complicated, for sure. Good luck figuring it out!

So... Right.. How do you figure it out? I started with a cat. ( I forgot I couldn't afford one but I needed something to love me) and it worked. I knew I was on my way to the possibility of loving something. It may be the magic that comes from PTSD dogs. She was/is my comfort cat but I agree with the post above. I think this whole thing about love is premature from the therapist ( hence my post about time) considering most haven't experienced love since PTSD. I'm medicated is why I can experience some emotion.

 

[ILoveLife]

I was writing on my diary relating to thoughts that popped up reading this thread that much more than the "need for love", some of us who didn't actually experience it or know what is might want to get on the "need to discover what love" is boat.

My T said the shitty part was the process to find it, she's confident I will for some reason. I don't know if I will but love is certainly something I would love to discover, pun intended.

 

[Abstract]

Confusingly too I think there can be love and dysfunction which exist at the same time. Trying to think through what that means in my brain and if get more clarity will come back.

When it comes to needing love. I guess little tiny scraps of it, or the appearance of it can get us through. Or we chose to see it when it isn't there to get us through. I certainly know it took me until my 30's to start acknowledging the dysfunction of one parents "love".

Agreed to surviving and thriving. And that always comes around to Harlows Monkey Experiment. Yes, thats just fundamental touching etc but still think its a window view into this stuff.

Not sure if anyone has read "Why Love Matters" or not but its a great book. And when you haven't had much of this and you still survived like you did, Lost, then it shows how resilient human beings can be. I do believe in the power of potential healing.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

that love is a need which is as essential to us as drawing breath.

The reason he compared it in this way is because being worthy of or deserving of is getting in the way and it's way more basic then that. Bigger then that. Would you tell someone they are not worthy to breath or don't deserve to drink water? Thus why he made this comparion.

Is your T trying to say that you weren’t really surviving those years of trauma that you went through? Is he saying that you weren’t really ‘alive’? Or that you’re somehow ‘incomplete’ till you have love?

Of course not. He is saying that I needed love back then. To be loved and to give love. Even if I didn't get or give it, it doesn't change that I needed it.

“That’s the kind of thing a person would say if they were always loved as a child...”.

That's projecting because my therapist's father was abusive to him.

You can SURVIVE without love, but the ability to love and be loved is part of being a complete human being.

Yes! And its hard for me to say that I searched viciously for love for an entire decade. Why, if I didn't need it.

Think of those hoarder shows where someone hoards animals. You usually find an absent of love. They are trying to fill that void. Teenage purposeful pregancies where the teen says "I just want someone to love me and to love someone". Why? If we don't need it? Sure, someone can be born and live 100 years without love but that doesn't change the fact that we are made to love and be loved. That's what my therapist is trying to get me to see. And if you read the other thread this all started with needing to grieve my loss of childhood and for my inner child. He says once I grasp this, greiving will start on its own.

 

[Abstract]

On that note I don't think we have to deserve love. Love is given. And a child being loved is their human right. Just like food, safety etc. It is never the childs fault if they don't get any of those. The responsibility of the adults around them.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

On that note I don't think we have to deserve love. Love is given. And a child being loved is their human right. Just like food, safety etc.

Yes! That's what I'm trying to grasp here but during my last session I came to the conclusion that I won't be able to grasp this or "To love and be loved is a basic human need that is bigger then worthy of or deserving of" until I define what love even is because wasn't what they did love? What is love really?