simplekindofgirl
Platinum Member
Maddog just hit the nail on the head! (for me at least...)
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How Helpful Is A Diagnosis? Are You 'a Problem That Needs To Be Fixed'??
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Maddog just hit the nail on the head! (for me at least...)
Phoenix_Rising
Platinum Member
Hi,
I can only post so much for this, because the whole being labeled thing is a major trauma for me in and of itself. Suffice to say, yes it can be incredibly damaging.
Personally, I find it helpful to know what I know I have, not what someone else labels me as.
I know more than most people about mental illness, and I know myself, so I really don't care what some idiot thinks I am, if it is not congruent with what I see and know in myself. They may be the expert (supposedly) in mental health issues, but I am the expert in "me". I've been there, done that, gotten the post card, never going there again. I am an adult, and I don't have to accept crap portrayed as truth, just because it is spewed at me.
So I stay away from the so-called "mental health system" and go to places and people that are more positive. I will accept the opinion of a therapist I trust. I sometimes want the validation of a therapist I trust. But I have the choice, I can accept what they have to say, or I can say to myself, well, I've thought about that, and I disagree.
I have a mind of my own, I am not a sheep, and I do not believe that just because you are in a position of power--teacher, doctor, psychiatrist and so on, that that automatically assigns you respect and trust, those things are earned.
When enough people try to cram things down your throat, you have two choices 1) accept it and turn into a mindless automaton, or 2) develop a really strong sense of your self, ideas, thoughts, beliefs and so on.
As for PTSD never being "cured" or alleviated, well, I had always accepted it as part of my life, for the rest of my life. Certainly for me it has never stopped, and I have been working on myself continuously for many years. But, I've been having some major changes with this new therapist recently and I admit it has kind of gotten me hoping, maybe, one day, I will be able to have a normal life not dictated (or even mostly not dictated) by my past.
It's a nice fantasy. Whether or not it is really possible, remains to be seen. But I would like to be able to hope so. :)
I can only post so much for this, because the whole being labeled thing is a major trauma for me in and of itself. Suffice to say, yes it can be incredibly damaging.
Personally, I find it helpful to know what I know I have, not what someone else labels me as.
I know more than most people about mental illness, and I know myself, so I really don't care what some idiot thinks I am, if it is not congruent with what I see and know in myself. They may be the expert (supposedly) in mental health issues, but I am the expert in "me". I've been there, done that, gotten the post card, never going there again. I am an adult, and I don't have to accept crap portrayed as truth, just because it is spewed at me.
So I stay away from the so-called "mental health system" and go to places and people that are more positive. I will accept the opinion of a therapist I trust. I sometimes want the validation of a therapist I trust. But I have the choice, I can accept what they have to say, or I can say to myself, well, I've thought about that, and I disagree.
I have a mind of my own, I am not a sheep, and I do not believe that just because you are in a position of power--teacher, doctor, psychiatrist and so on, that that automatically assigns you respect and trust, those things are earned.
When enough people try to cram things down your throat, you have two choices 1) accept it and turn into a mindless automaton, or 2) develop a really strong sense of your self, ideas, thoughts, beliefs and so on.
As for PTSD never being "cured" or alleviated, well, I had always accepted it as part of my life, for the rest of my life. Certainly for me it has never stopped, and I have been working on myself continuously for many years. But, I've been having some major changes with this new therapist recently and I admit it has kind of gotten me hoping, maybe, one day, I will be able to have a normal life not dictated (or even mostly not dictated) by my past.
It's a nice fantasy. Whether or not it is really possible, remains to be seen. But I would like to be able to hope so. :)
Eleanor
Diamond Member
Good Heavens! (Putting on my Divinity Master and Doctor of Philosophy hat...) Evil Jury I banish you from Maddog's consciousness forever - get back from whence you came! WHOOSH. :giggle: (Sucking sound as evil jury leave the ether....)
Well, glad that's done.:D
Maddog, I'm glad you have a psych who is willing and able to "See" his patients. (never liked that word either, not being especially patient myself.) I find that most genuine experts can sling lingo with the best of them, but don't - at their stage of the game - find it terribly helpful in trying to HELP people.
Anyhow, IMHO it might be helpful to recall that PTSD and all other various and sundry diagnoses and labels are just academic shorthand for a collection of characteristics. As such they are useful insofar as they facilitate communication among people - and positively harmful when they enable us to be mentally lazy or bigoted, which I guess is the same thing. PTSD is just the name for a collection of patterns that people get "caught" by. Obviously its not YOU. If we were all capable of being perfectly present at all times no one would get it and everyone would "had" it (or more properly "it had") would easily escape by substituting a more pleasant pattern. The problem is most of us shift patterns slowly if at all, which leaves us in the position of having to deal with whatever is NOW in the meantime.
Phoenix Rising I think you have a MOST healthy take on this. (Except for being flipped out by the diagnosis/labeling thing. Why give away that much power to people who are obviously ignorant?) You are totally the expert on you, and as such the only person in a position to make the tough calls. And really the only one with a vested interest in getting it right. I'd encourage you not to be allergic to people with letters after their names tho. In spite of all the education, sometimes they can be very good.;)
Phoenix_Rising
Platinum Member
LOL Eleanor I agree, they are not ALL bad. I know there exist a great many who are very good, and that is the same in any profession, there are some that are really, really bad and some are really, really good, and a lot of them are in the middle.
Just in my case I have been unlucky enough to get a lot of really, really bad ones, in the mental health area, and I've also found that in highly educated people "with letters after their names" lol, the more highly educated they are (this includes regular doctors as well as psych ones) the less of a bedside manner they seem to have!
This in and of itself does not mean they are bad--in fact they are often excellent at what they do. It's like they have spent so much time in academia that they have forgotten how to interact with people!
As an example, my neuro-opthamologist (you can't get much more specialized than that) who is good at what he does, and unlike some I have no issues with. The first time I went, it was due to an opthomologist finding that my optic nerves were unusual. His fellow came in first and talked to me, and looked at my eyes.
He says to me, your optic nerves are failing. I'm thinking, oh my God, am I going blind? Now, error in judgment on the part of the fellow, true. But my dr. comes in, this is my first time meeting the guy, and he spends the first 10 minutes talking to his fellow about me as though I am not even there, as I panic more and more. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME????? He doesn't know and is quite puzzled, then all of a sudden a light goes on and he says, still to the fellow, I think I know what it is. It's dreusen.
Now here I am all this time after having been told my optic nerves are failing, knowing they are already abnormal.
So he finally gets around to his diagnosis, and says, oh nothing to worry about. I didn't really understand what the heck it meant at the time, nor did he really explain it. Now I do, although I really don't know what they are, dreusen usually occur in the elderly, it's something that occurs over time. They have been explained to me as like tiny little crystals, it makes my optic nerves look different. But I was too young to have that. Except in my case it is congenital, which is unusual. But I still do not know exactly what they are, why I have them, what they do, or anything else. But, most importantly, he could have saved me a lot of terror and grief had he actually spoken to ME.
He nonetheless did a number of tests and an MRI on my eyes. And I was supposed to come in once a year for a check up because my visual field tests were markedly abnormal, which he said, could be a birth defect but since we don't know that for sure, we need to make sure it is not changing or getting worse (this is an entirely different birth defect). So, good doctor, but his bedside manner could be improved.
But, my mental health experiences were unfortunately not nearly so innocuous.
As for why I gave that much power away to people who were ignorant, sad to say, but I didn't because they had it already. I was a teenage girl and they at that time were the only help available to me. I desperately needed help, so I took the only route I could take, because the alternative at the time was death and a life so intolerable I only made it from one day to the next by some miracle.
My family re-enforced everything they had to say, because it was easier than facing up to their problems, and I had always been a convenient scapegoat. And they believed what my family had to say, what I had to say, even if I had known how at that time, which I didn't, would not have made any difference to their beliefs or my family's. I look back now and it seems utterly crazy to me. They didn't even know my dad was going around the house with an axe, just this close to killing us all, using it obliterate objects around the house and threatening us with it . How could they not know?
Ignorant doesn't even begin to describe what they were. The kicker? They eventually kicked me out as my mental state deteriorated between that and being in an abusive relationship with my daughter's father, citing that I was having a negative impact on other people in the waiting area, that I was self injuring, and that I got less and less communicative and more and more dissociative. Gee, I wonder why... They never even asked if there was a reason for the changes in me!
So to cover their ass they sent me to "reproductive mental health", I went once and they were clearly sicker than I was, I never went back. I am pretty sure that one visit came to bite me later though, because I was supposed to be conscious during my daughter's birth and while fortunately I was able to remember the main parts whatever drug(s) they gave me knocked me so flat that not only was the birth a blur, but they gave the baby to me right after, they don't do anything for you any more once you give birth. So for the next 24 hours, I had my daughter with me in my hospital bed, as I lost consciousness suddenly, over and over again, I'd wake up, realize what happened, then I'd lose consciousness again. Happened constantly the whole day after my surgery, and yet I was supposed to be caring for a helpless infant? All I was supposed to get was anaesthesia.
This is just the tiniest fragment, there is ever so much more.
This is why I choose as an adult to find help for myself elsewhere--which, when I was younger, I did as soon as I figured out there was somewhere else for me to go. But that was not until I started seeing my last therapist, the one I was with for 14 years, which was prior to my daughter's birth and after this fiasco.
I won't allow any one to label me any more--because, as an adult, I do have that choice.
Just in my case I have been unlucky enough to get a lot of really, really bad ones, in the mental health area, and I've also found that in highly educated people "with letters after their names" lol, the more highly educated they are (this includes regular doctors as well as psych ones) the less of a bedside manner they seem to have!
This in and of itself does not mean they are bad--in fact they are often excellent at what they do. It's like they have spent so much time in academia that they have forgotten how to interact with people!
As an example, my neuro-opthamologist (you can't get much more specialized than that) who is good at what he does, and unlike some I have no issues with. The first time I went, it was due to an opthomologist finding that my optic nerves were unusual. His fellow came in first and talked to me, and looked at my eyes.
He says to me, your optic nerves are failing. I'm thinking, oh my God, am I going blind? Now, error in judgment on the part of the fellow, true. But my dr. comes in, this is my first time meeting the guy, and he spends the first 10 minutes talking to his fellow about me as though I am not even there, as I panic more and more. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME????? He doesn't know and is quite puzzled, then all of a sudden a light goes on and he says, still to the fellow, I think I know what it is. It's dreusen.
Now here I am all this time after having been told my optic nerves are failing, knowing they are already abnormal.
So he finally gets around to his diagnosis, and says, oh nothing to worry about. I didn't really understand what the heck it meant at the time, nor did he really explain it. Now I do, although I really don't know what they are, dreusen usually occur in the elderly, it's something that occurs over time. They have been explained to me as like tiny little crystals, it makes my optic nerves look different. But I was too young to have that. Except in my case it is congenital, which is unusual. But I still do not know exactly what they are, why I have them, what they do, or anything else. But, most importantly, he could have saved me a lot of terror and grief had he actually spoken to ME.
He nonetheless did a number of tests and an MRI on my eyes. And I was supposed to come in once a year for a check up because my visual field tests were markedly abnormal, which he said, could be a birth defect but since we don't know that for sure, we need to make sure it is not changing or getting worse (this is an entirely different birth defect). So, good doctor, but his bedside manner could be improved.
But, my mental health experiences were unfortunately not nearly so innocuous.
As for why I gave that much power away to people who were ignorant, sad to say, but I didn't because they had it already. I was a teenage girl and they at that time were the only help available to me. I desperately needed help, so I took the only route I could take, because the alternative at the time was death and a life so intolerable I only made it from one day to the next by some miracle.
My family re-enforced everything they had to say, because it was easier than facing up to their problems, and I had always been a convenient scapegoat. And they believed what my family had to say, what I had to say, even if I had known how at that time, which I didn't, would not have made any difference to their beliefs or my family's. I look back now and it seems utterly crazy to me. They didn't even know my dad was going around the house with an axe, just this close to killing us all, using it obliterate objects around the house and threatening us with it . How could they not know?
Ignorant doesn't even begin to describe what they were. The kicker? They eventually kicked me out as my mental state deteriorated between that and being in an abusive relationship with my daughter's father, citing that I was having a negative impact on other people in the waiting area, that I was self injuring, and that I got less and less communicative and more and more dissociative. Gee, I wonder why... They never even asked if there was a reason for the changes in me!
So to cover their ass they sent me to "reproductive mental health", I went once and they were clearly sicker than I was, I never went back. I am pretty sure that one visit came to bite me later though, because I was supposed to be conscious during my daughter's birth and while fortunately I was able to remember the main parts whatever drug(s) they gave me knocked me so flat that not only was the birth a blur, but they gave the baby to me right after, they don't do anything for you any more once you give birth. So for the next 24 hours, I had my daughter with me in my hospital bed, as I lost consciousness suddenly, over and over again, I'd wake up, realize what happened, then I'd lose consciousness again. Happened constantly the whole day after my surgery, and yet I was supposed to be caring for a helpless infant? All I was supposed to get was anaesthesia.
This is just the tiniest fragment, there is ever so much more.
This is why I choose as an adult to find help for myself elsewhere--which, when I was younger, I did as soon as I figured out there was somewhere else for me to go. But that was not until I started seeing my last therapist, the one I was with for 14 years, which was prior to my daughter's birth and after this fiasco.
I won't allow any one to label me any more--because, as an adult, I do have that choice.
Phew, me too! I shall know where to come for the banishment of future evils from my world.
Thanks for using your powers for my benefit... and for the smile, which I needed almost as badly!
Maddog
D
Deleted member 1860
I can't help but feel that this is a lot of self talk, that you're still trying to convince yourself that you're ok...
Why?
If you were truly ok with yourself, truly happy, you wouldn't have sought out the help of a therapist, and you wouldn't be here.
A correct diagnosis helps, an incorrect one hurts. At least in my experience. I assume you're completely self-pay or getting treatment for free as the insurance world revolves around diagnostic codes. A diagnosis is inevitable, we can't avoid it. But at the same time it's not something to be feared. In the end, a diagnosis is just one persons opinion. In the world of mental health so many Dx overlap that determining out what's really going on can be difficult and time consuming. Don't like a Dx? Throw it out and get another opinion.
Why?
If you were truly ok with yourself, truly happy, you wouldn't have sought out the help of a therapist, and you wouldn't be here.
A correct diagnosis helps, an incorrect one hurts. At least in my experience. I assume you're completely self-pay or getting treatment for free as the insurance world revolves around diagnostic codes. A diagnosis is inevitable, we can't avoid it. But at the same time it's not something to be feared. In the end, a diagnosis is just one persons opinion. In the world of mental health so many Dx overlap that determining out what's really going on can be difficult and time consuming. Don't like a Dx? Throw it out and get another opinion.
simplekindofgirl
Platinum Member
Not true.
simplekindofgirl
Platinum Member
I was misdiagnosed for many years because of self pay treatment. I was only diagnosed because I have other medical problems unrelated to mental health conditions, it was a coincidence that it came up with one of my doctors which may have assisted in leading to improper diagnosis. I later received a proper diagnosis and consulted with two other trauma specialist physicians who confirmed it.
The only difference really being my mindset. Before the diagnosis I would think of things such as, why am I so easily agitated, why is my anger becoming rage, why am I so uncontrollably dysfunctional, why am I avoiding the things that I used to love- ok, depression is what they say, so depression is what it is and I will just rage on. I am depressed therefore it is all my fault, and I am just a jerk. With the diagnosis came the realization (over time, not immediately) that maybe it is not entirely all my fault. And being able to let that part of it go (the self blame part) did help me, has helped me, is helping me to control my behavior- usually.
But the diagnosis itself makes no difference. At the end of the day, I am what I am. The misdiagnosis, that is the one that made/makes a difference. Maybe I would see the diagnosis differently if I had not been misdiagnosed first. Bearing in mind of course that this is just what I think and feel about it. Nobody else has to agree. This is just how I see it.
If I misdiagnosed MRSA as a mole and you died, it would probably suck, right?
It wouldn't change the fact that it was MRSA or wasn't MRSA, I could call it whatever I want...but if I didn't treat for MRSA, well, you're shit out of luck.
A diagnosis, sure, it's all a bunch of crap! ........ In fact, f*ck it, who needs any diagnosis at all... broken leg? Eh, who cares, if you fall over when you walk it doesn't really matter cause you're still down for the count huh!
....In case you missed my subtlety, uh.....yes.... diagnoses are important. You can't really treat something unless you know what it is.
The brain is as much a physical organ as your leg and PTSD has some pretty predictable markers within neurological functioning. Knowing what PTSD is and how it affects your mind and body is pretty much the most crucial step in fixing it, ever.
Of course you have a problem. Duh? You're not normal, you have PTSD, and PTSD isn't normal. Just like a broken leg isn't normal. If you're having a shitty time, you probably want to fix it. When your leg is broken you don't go into an existential crisis, you get a cast. If you grow old and develop Parkinson's disease you go on levodopa.
It doesn't say anything about who you are, so why would it say anything about who you are if it was PTSD? Or depression? Or BPD? Or bipolar? Or anything? They all have one thing in common and it's that it isn't like you woke up one morning and thought well gee, I think I'll develop PTSD today, or gee, I think I'll get Parkinson's disease.
There's really no difference, except you're dealing with a less exact science. So, obviously, a more exact diagnosis is all the more beneficial.
It wouldn't change the fact that it was MRSA or wasn't MRSA, I could call it whatever I want...but if I didn't treat for MRSA, well, you're shit out of luck.
A diagnosis, sure, it's all a bunch of crap! ........ In fact, f*ck it, who needs any diagnosis at all... broken leg? Eh, who cares, if you fall over when you walk it doesn't really matter cause you're still down for the count huh!
....In case you missed my subtlety, uh.....yes.... diagnoses are important. You can't really treat something unless you know what it is.
The brain is as much a physical organ as your leg and PTSD has some pretty predictable markers within neurological functioning. Knowing what PTSD is and how it affects your mind and body is pretty much the most crucial step in fixing it, ever.
Of course you have a problem. Duh? You're not normal, you have PTSD, and PTSD isn't normal. Just like a broken leg isn't normal. If you're having a shitty time, you probably want to fix it. When your leg is broken you don't go into an existential crisis, you get a cast. If you grow old and develop Parkinson's disease you go on levodopa.
It doesn't say anything about who you are, so why would it say anything about who you are if it was PTSD? Or depression? Or BPD? Or bipolar? Or anything? They all have one thing in common and it's that it isn't like you woke up one morning and thought well gee, I think I'll develop PTSD today, or gee, I think I'll get Parkinson's disease.
There's really no difference, except you're dealing with a less exact science. So, obviously, a more exact diagnosis is all the more beneficial.
simplekindofgirl
Platinum Member
All of that is true- Sea. Every bit of it.
Except when you look at it from a different perspective and realize that we all see it differently. We realize that something is wrong yet it still makes no difference to you what is wrong. I have suffered broken bones and not gone in to a doctor. And in another instance I had 2 broken bones in my foot, had an x-ray and refused a cast because I had something that I needed to do that I would not have been able to achieve that with one. My problem, my choice. Maybe not the smartest choice I admit, but that is how I have handled it. Because that is how I see it. It is broken, so what. That will not stop me from doing what I need to or want to do, cast or not. The diagnosis made no difference. I was going to do what I needed to do with or without it.
Except when you look at it from a different perspective and realize that we all see it differently. We realize that something is wrong yet it still makes no difference to you what is wrong. I have suffered broken bones and not gone in to a doctor. And in another instance I had 2 broken bones in my foot, had an x-ray and refused a cast because I had something that I needed to do that I would not have been able to achieve that with one. My problem, my choice. Maybe not the smartest choice I admit, but that is how I have handled it. Because that is how I see it. It is broken, so what. That will not stop me from doing what I need to or want to do, cast or not. The diagnosis made no difference. I was going to do what I needed to do with or without it.
simplekindofgirl
Platinum Member
It is a matter of perspective when it comes down to it. How you see it, how you think of it, how you perceive it.
The sky is blue- no it isn't, the reflected light entering the earths atmosphere makes the sky appear blue- the sky is reflected light- but look, the sky is indeed blue... It is merely about how you see it and how you relate it to how you think.
The sky is blue- no it isn't, the reflected light entering the earths atmosphere makes the sky appear blue- the sky is reflected light- but look, the sky is indeed blue... It is merely about how you see it and how you relate it to how you think.
Actually, it's kind of freaky because I could have written what Phoenix wrote word for word at one time but as it stands now I am at a cross roads on this issue.
I am seeing 2 (count 'em TWO) therapists and psychiatrist, all with various Diagnosis. So here's how I see it at this time... FIX ME!!! I don't give a shit how, just do it! My husband is terrified that I'll go ballistic and end up in 4-point restraints again screaming like some kind of animal. He'll be secretly snicking that he tried to warn the huge security guy not to call "sweetie" and that I was stronger that I looked at 95lbs but he shrugged it off because I was such "an itty bitty thang". .. POW!!
So slammed with a Bi-Polar with schizoaffective (which was tossed out) and PTSD with severe Dissociative Disorder, one agrees, the other strictly PTSD...one says "curable" the other "lifetime effected", shrink says Bipolar and PTSD stay on meds no matter what!!
I say, I am dumping some of the meds and am diving into both therapies and FINALLY getting some answers!
Does the Dx matter...yeah! It matters because all my life it's been "what's wrong with me?" and I have spent countless hours and thousand of my extremely hard earned money to fix me. Working on issues I knew other's did to me to get me into those offices in the first place but I felt responsible for. Finding out that it was just PTSD changed EVERYTHING. That list of "symptoms" was a world opening experience for me. Put the puzzle together and turn it over, there's your answer. :ninja:
I am seeing 2 (count 'em TWO) therapists and psychiatrist, all with various Diagnosis. So here's how I see it at this time... FIX ME!!! I don't give a shit how, just do it! My husband is terrified that I'll go ballistic and end up in 4-point restraints again screaming like some kind of animal. He'll be secretly snicking that he tried to warn the huge security guy not to call "sweetie" and that I was stronger that I looked at 95lbs but he shrugged it off because I was such "an itty bitty thang". .. POW!!
So slammed with a Bi-Polar with schizoaffective (which was tossed out) and PTSD with severe Dissociative Disorder, one agrees, the other strictly PTSD...one says "curable" the other "lifetime effected", shrink says Bipolar and PTSD stay on meds no matter what!!
I say, I am dumping some of the meds and am diving into both therapies and FINALLY getting some answers!
Does the Dx matter...yeah! It matters because all my life it's been "what's wrong with me?" and I have spent countless hours and thousand of my extremely hard earned money to fix me. Working on issues I knew other's did to me to get me into those offices in the first place but I felt responsible for. Finding out that it was just PTSD changed EVERYTHING. That list of "symptoms" was a world opening experience for me. Put the puzzle together and turn it over, there's your answer. :ninja:
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