Hug etiquette

[arfie]

Wanting a hug vs wanting to give a hug—are they essentially the same?

In general, what do you say…

disclaimer
my rip roaring aversion to touch is the number one trait which gets people wanting me to test for the autism spectrum.

that said, hugs are reciprocal. how can i want to get a hug without wanting to give a hug. if anyone has to say anything, whatsoever, no thanks. i feel it as obscene social ritual than sincere bonding. the only hugs i can tolerate with sincerity come from the heart. the heart beats beyond words and goes where it goes.

personally, i have invested far more intellect on how to avoid insincere hugs than i have on who, where and when to follow my heart.

 

[Rose White]

I feel she takes ownership of my body.

Really yes here. This a lot.

"I am me" "I am unique". Taking mum out of it entirely? Because you are you and not her.

Can’t do this yet.

You telling your children you love them, isn't you being needy. It might have been your mum being needy because she wanted something from you when she expressed it, rather than it giving you something.

Can’t see the difference yet.

whilst swirls are soooo uncomfortable, they are signs of chipping away at old things and healing from them .

But *really* appreciate this reframe!!

Even thinking of saying the three words makes me collapse inside. Me engaging in that dynamic with her somehow keeps the world revolving (stabilizes the family), but it’s so uncomfortable that I do my best to avoid it as much as possible, and yes, now I am bound. For the next four days. But I have nature, and crafts (she hates crafts), and pup.

Realizing those were my go-to escapes when I was a kid. Not going to get emotional but dang I am dealing with shit. Nature will help me for sure—always has and always will.

 

[Rose White]

I think if a hug seems forced to give or accept it's uncomfortable for both,

if anyone has to say anything, whatsoever, no thanks.

These are my fears. And I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable.

 

[arfie]

These are my fears. And I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable.

thank you, but, keeping it strictly personal, i'm not hard to read on this score, for anyone literate enough to read body language. i strongly suspect you would recognize and respect my need for personal space. for the cheek-pinching aunts, etc., i can see them coming and my evasive maneuvers are masterful. no need for hurting any feelings. i am a master of the side-step.

 

[Movingforward10]

Can’t do this yet.

I like the 'yet'! You would highlight the 'yet' to me.

Even thinking of saying the three words makes me collapse inside

Yeah, totally understand. It makes me freeze when my Mum does it. Which I suppose is also collapse inside. . it's really really tough.
I hope one day I can say it.
In the meantime, I use avoidance. I avoid sitting next to her. I avoid being close to her. Etc. Try and make it difficult for her to touch me. So hope something works and helps you over the next few days.

 

[Rose White]

Maybe if I just try to hug her first and get it out of the way. I feel so enmeshed with her and it’s gross. But I have to find a way to step out of it. And meanwhile I am really afraid of hugs and I-love-you’s in general.

Uncomfortable.

But I m afraid of them because I don’t want to be her.

WHY AM I FALLING FOR THAT STUPID OLD STORY? Why is it embedded in me so deep. I guess cause it’s mom.

JFC, I’m spinning. Need to ground. Feeling very angry. Blech. Angry because there is a part of me that is so deeply invested in maintaining this enmeshment with my mom. Not going to abandon myself; but kind of seems like I am already. Need to shift. Throat feels tight. I want to bawl. Brother and family coming soon. Sons supposedly coming soon. Don’t know if mom is coming.

I am tail spinning. Have to go wake up daughter. Hoping I can put her into the shower and then cry. I just need to cry. Going to do that now, can’t stop it.

 

[Movingforward10]

These are deep deep wounds @Rose White . Incredibly difficult to,process.

helps to remember you are here now? Safety of your home? the pets? This will pass?

 

[Sues]

I am not a hugger. Don't touch me. It's not safe.

I am good with hugs from my family and from my best friend (I have one friend). Other than that, hell no. I appreciate people asking rather than just assuming and trying to hug me.

 

[Rose White]

I appreciate people asking

In what way? That’s what I’m caught up on.

 

[Tinyflame]

I don't want to speak for @Sues by any means but 'how' is just to ask, i.e. respecting someone's boundaries. Hopefully they are honest in their reply. But really overthinking it might indicate to just not focus on it so much.

Perhaps some of the situation with your mother @Rose White could be helped by clear communication? For you to say I don't feel comfortable hugging more than x, y, or z, nothing personal. You can't help it if you really mean it and you say so and they take it personally. But I would think they would be more hurt to feel you were lying. Also, maybe it varies- not today is one thing, maybe when you felt differently. Or just accept it and don't add more meaning. Maybe it is her way of letting you know she loves you and you matter.

When I was a kid I didn't express myself much. But instead (I guess) I gave bear hugs- my mom said I could squeeze the air out though little. She said she wondered (laughingly) if I would break a rib! My dad broke his mom's rib accidentally once with the same.

Good luck. You are both alive atm so there is the potential for growth and a bettering of your interactions. You both also grow, change and mature. If it's a trigger (hugging or refusing) graduated exposure may help.

 

[Friday]

I’m the kind of person who, if I’m completely comfortable / just being myself? I hug, I kiss, I throw a leg over laps or my arms body when joining a seating arrangement, I punch shoulders, I ruffle hair, I trail my hand across someone as I pass. If I like/love/respect you? I’m probably touching you.

But I’ve lived in so many durn different cultures that I default to whatever local expectations are, when I’m in public/mixed company. Sometimes that’s formal-casual hugging, sometimes that’s formal-formal hugging, sometimes is no hugging but kissing, sometimes the arm grab, or the hand clasp, or hand shake, or the slight nod, or the various depths and applications of bowing, or the smile & wave, or the Covid-elbow bump, etc., etc., etc., <<< AND THEY ALL MEAN THE SAME DURN THING >>> Hello/Goodbye/Appreciations = Super-Surface-Level-Interaction-With-Others.


So… for me… thinking generally? Regardless of what the cultural expectations are?

- Asking for what’s normal/expected is either creepy/weird, or intimate/profound, regardless of which direction it flows. (May I shake your hand? Will you shake my hand?)

- Asking for what’s still within the bounds of good behaviour, but is either UNexpected, or uncharted / not a part of our normal relationship? Implies a lack of intimacy/understanding, or strong emotions.

- Asking for what’s beyond the bounds of good behaviour… is a coin flip… depending almost entirely on the person being asked. It’s either beyond rude to act without asking, OR beyond rude to ask for something one has no right to act on.


SPECIFICALLY, however?

Can I give you a hug? (Position of power, but not truthful if it’s me who wants a hug right?). This is like what I would say if a co-worker was crying but that’s not really what I’m talking about here. Sometimes people say, “Can I give you a hug,” to me when I’m not crying or upset at all and I think it’s because they want a hug but they say that.

I don’t personally EVER “want” a hug from someone in distress. But I like being held/hugged/squashed flat when I am in distress…

((Kids do that, though, as they become distressed by the other person’s distress, and want to BE comforted by the person who has distressed them with their distress; conversely, if they’re held hugged when they are in distress, on seeing someone else in distress they often mirror what their caregivers do for them. Whether that’s love & affection, or being silly / making jokes, or, or, or. Not because they want comfort, because because they want to give comfort.))

…so I’ll often offer someone what makes me feel better. Whether that’s a fierce hug when crying, or a cold drink on a hot day. Not because I want them to make me feel better, but because I’d like to make them feel better.

The only reasons I’d ASK, before hugging someone (in a place were hugs are culturally appropriate) is if I don’t know them very well, &/or that’s not (been) a part of our relationship, or know them very well &/or we hug often BUT cannot tell in the moment what they want.

 

[Rose White]

@Friday thank you! Really nice to hear from someone who had a good family upbringing without all the abuse/codependent crap.

Asking for what’s normal/expected is either creepy/weird, or intimate/profound, regardless of which direction it flows. (May I shake your hand? Will you shake my hand?)

- Asking for what’s still within the bounds of good behaviour, but is either UNexpected, or uncharted / not a part of our normal relationship? Implies a lack of intimacy/understanding, or strong emotions.

- Asking for what’s beyond the bounds of good behaviour… is a coin flip… depending almost entirely on the person being asked. It’s either beyond rude to act without asking, OR beyond rude to ask for something one has no right to act on.

Pretty sure I’m stuck in these modes. I believe I’m creepy and out-of-bounds and rude. I’ve written extensively about it in the past in the cognitive distortions threads.

Even if I tell myself “I’m not him/dad or her/mom ( and *that* is new to start untangling from her),” I still believe that I’m creepy, out-of-bounds and rude, sometimes with my own kids even. Yes there are times that I can rise above that but I sink back down into it.

So it’s kind of like imposter. And kind of like old story.

It’s just that whenever there’s a possibility for hug and I-love-you’s my mind runs through all these scenarios. It’s not as bad when the hug is imposed on me, I’m fine with things being done *to* me—familiar. It’s when I do have feelings then I’m in dangerous territory. Then my left brain goes into overdrive to be perfect and I keep f*cking it up before I even do it and so just rather keep the bubble and the act of neutrality.