I Don't Bond

[Deleted member 1860]

I know I've brought this up before. One of my old therapists suspected an attachment disorder in me, but I never told her the full scope of my symptoms so it got pushed to the way-side. There are only a handful of attachment therapists in the state. Maybe I'll call one of them next week....

I don't attach to people. I don't even understand the concept of attachment. The world thinks that I'm supposed to have this automatic instinct to bond to people and I simply don't. My view is that people want me in their life because they want something from me, and I don't want anyone in my life because I don't want anything from anyone else. I don't have it in me to use other people in a selfish manner like that. Ask anyone why they are interested in me and you get selfish reasons....*I* want a partner, *I* want to have a family, *I* *I* *I* want, want, want. I don't understand that.

I don't understand it, and I don't think its something that is ever going to get better. I never learned bonding as a child. I don't understand why people get attached to me. I sit there and think "there are 7 billion other people in the world, I can be replaced...." I don't understand why people can't let things go. Why are they upset about me not wanting to be friends anymore when they can go out and find other friends? My mom only pays attention to me when my sister isn't around, so its no great loss if she didn't have me. My dad....I don't think he cares so much as feels guilty so I don't understand why it would matter if I just wasn't around anymore. I honestly don't understand when they express that they would miss me if I was gone. I just don't get it.

Its like I just go through life faking it all and everyone falls for it on one level or another. Or they mistake my actions for something deeper when they're not. [This happens a LOT.] And no, I've never had a real adult relationship with anyone.

I'm not looking for answers b/c I know there are none. I guess I just wanted to put this out there.

ETA

This is probably why I got through trauma therapy. I didn't have the need to bond to my therapist. I trusted in the process, not my therapist.

 

[Intrepid]

I trusted in the process, not my therapist.

I like that. I LOVE process. I bond to processes.

I read poetry at an open mike. I have people talk to me as if they know me. They actually like me there. Most nights I leave there cursing myself for being so vulnerable, or something like that.

It may be that you really want to bond, but it just doesn't feel safe to do. (Sorry, you've probably heard something like that before, and you said you weren't looking for answers.)

Anyway, thanks for putting that out there. It explains a lot.

 

[anthony]

I don't attach to people. I don't even understand the concept of attachment.

Nothing wrong with that... that is personal and you get to choose.

The world thinks that I'm supposed to have this automatic instinct to bond to people and I simply don't.

Big call thinking on behalf of the world!

My view is that people want me in their life because they want something from me

Another big call... thinking on behalf of others.

I don't want anyone in my life because I don't want anything from anyone else.

That is your choice and in your control, but don't project your wishes and desires upon the world, and what others think. That is cognitive distortion 101.

Why are they upset about me not wanting to be friends anymore when they can go out and find other friends?

Sorry... but again, that is your problem. If you allow people to become your friend, without clear boundaries, then you're literally throwing out a line for another person to believe they're your friend, then you yank it away from them for whatever your own selfish reasons.

You talk about others being selfish, but under this exact case, it is you who is doing exactly the selfish act by giving enough of yourself to allow someone to think friendship with you is possible, to then yank it away from them. You own that.

Its like I just go through life faking it all and everyone falls for it on one level or another. Or they mistake my actions for something deeper when they're not. [This happens a LOT.] And no, I've never had a real adult relationship with anyone.

Then stop faking it, and stop being dishonest with others when your intention is not to allow anyone to be close. Your opening statement, based on what I'm reading is something along the lines of, "being honest with you, I have no intention of being your friend, partner or anything else, just so you know this up front." That would be an honest thing to say IF what you cite is accurate, in that you believe everyone wants something from you and you go through life faking it. You fake it, someone gets hurt because of your actions, and you blame them, not yourself.

Interesting!

I'm not looking for answers b/c I know there are none.

You just got some answers. You like honesty, so I'm giving you honesty based on what you said and I have read and then interpreted to the best ability based on your words.

 

[Philippa]

My view is that people want me in their life because they want something from me, and I don't want anyone in my life because I don't want anything from anyone else.

Is that really true though...or just something you've convinced yourself of? There are some people who are like that, but not everyone who wants to be your friend wants something other than your company and your love. Maybe you just haven't had that experience so you don't know it?

I don't have it in me to use other people in a selfish manner like that.

But you have it in you to make people think you want their friendship and then dump them at your whim? Why even let them think you are friends if you really don't feel that way? That's not really nice, or honest. You might not think you are selfish, but you aren't that nice either.

Ask anyone why they are interested in me and you get selfish reasons....*I* want a partner, *I* want to have a family, *I* *I* *I* want, want, want. I don't understand that.

I used to think this way too. I also used to think that friends were fickle and one minute they are there for you but then things get hard and everyone disappears suddenly, so it's bullshit the friends thing...but maybe I just hadn't met the right friends who really were friends. I've made mutually beneficial friendships in the last couple of years which have been supportive of both our healing and growth, I think. People use each other...but that's not always a bad thing. As long as both parties are gaining something positive from the relationship, it's a positive, healthy one.

Many people do want things without looking at their true motivations behind wanting them...that's true. But wanting things in and of itself is ok. We've just all been conditioned to believe that we don't deserve anything, and it's greedy to want anything and we are better for not wanting anything. It's not true.

People are selfish...this is true. You are a person. Therefore, you are also selfish...even if you think you are not like them, and I think, as women, we have been conditioned to not want to be perceived as selfish and we put everyone else first and ourselves last because we think we are better for it and don't want to be judged.

We ALL want things. That's ok. It's ok to want things, and people in our lives. Why do you think it's not ok? You are here on this forum because you want to heal (I'm assuming) That is wanting something from being here, that is wanting something from us, and from this forum. You can't not want anything ever from anyone. People need people to some degree, whether you like it or not. That is something I had a lot of trouble accepting when I was younger.

So you are saying you don't want ANYTHING...ever? Then why 'put this statement out there' for us to read? You want us to know this about you, even if you don't want an answer or think there are any. You still want something from us by telling us, if only to witness your 'truth'...otherwise you'd keep it to yourself.

I don't understand why people get attached to me.

Because most people do bond...it's a normal human behavior. It starts at birth.

I sit there and think "there are 7 billion other people in the world, I can be replaced...." I don't understand why people can't let things go.

Sure, you can be replaced, and they will and do let go...eventually. Just not immediately, as you seem to think they 'should'. There's an emotional process that occurs when someone you think liked you turns around and dumps your ass with no explanation. That shit can leave a person confused, hurt angry, baffled, sad, grieving,...a whole bunch of emotions that take time to get through and make it difficult to just let go straight away.

It seems like you have a whole bunch of unrealistic expectations, coupled with distorted beliefs and 'shoulds' that you haven't questioned. Are you interested in looking at that?

Why are they upset about me not wanting to be friends anymore when they can go out and find other friends?

Because when people bond, it creates an emotional attachment. It's unrealistic to expect the majority of people to be like you and not form emotional attachments because you say you do not. They are not you. They are not like you...and they do not have to be like you. They are them. They bond. To expect them to be like you is actually a selfish way of thinking. It's like you are saying "why can't you all be like me as I obviously have the superior way of handling things from a non attachment perspective." Intellectually that may be a neat way of moving on for you...but for most people emotions are also part of the deal.

 

[Purplemunchkin]

This made me think of the saying "Treat others as you would wish to be treated" and how wrong I have always thought it is.

Everyone is different. In what they want, need, feel, etc.

I don't understand why people get attached to me.

Does it matter that you don't understand? They still get attached, whether you understand or not. Most likely they don't understand how/why you don't get attached, but that doesn't change the fact that you don't bond with them.

I don't always understand why my husband reacts or says or does or doesn't do things, but I accept that it is all part of who he is, and I love him.

And it doesn't all come down to PTSD. It comes down to us being unique individuals who have, and always will, experience the world differently.

 

[Justmehere]

Multiple trauma therapists have said I'm "pathologically independent" and that my attachment style is really off. My therapist knows a lot about it, and says it can change. It begins to change sometimes. I didn't think it really could until I did lots and lots of reading about how it can change for adults. I hope that I can eventually develop what is called an "earned secure attachment style."

I challenge you on your statement that you don't bond at all. You are not a sociopath. You did bond, at least a little, somewhere along the way. Babies who do not develop any attachment at all, any bond at all - they die. It's called failure to thrive. Your posts about relationships in your life indicates to me that you do have some ability to connect with people, to relate, to attach, probably very avoidantly, at least to some very small degree.

Being attached isn't really some kind of magical feeling or anything. It is hard to explain or describe though what it feels like.

Attachment styles can change, but it does take time and a therapist who understands how to work with it - and a willingness by you to share all the symptoms of this that you deal with. It's a weird process of it changing, and it's another process where it helps to trust the process.

Some attachment therapists are quacks - so rather than looking for an "attachment therapist" II would suggest looking for a therapist that has some experience and comfort dealing with attachment styles and how to change them to a more secure style. My own therapist isn't an attachment therapist per se, but does Somatic Experiencing, and I have found that most somatic experiencing therapists (at least in my area) know about attachment and are very comfortable working with it in ways that are not off the wall or require any trust in the therapist.

 

[Chava]

I have attachment stuff for sure (avoidant and a little disorganized makes plenty of sense). It's lonely but it also helps me not take some things too personally (partly some personality stuff mixed in here...hard to separate). I had friends growing up but it seemed to be harder to maintain healthy friendships as I became an adult. It was more like me and the person I could get really drunk with, who could handle seeing my scars, who wouldn't just get mad at me for not eating but think my anorexia was sort of beautiful...usually someone else who was pretty sick.

I've asked my therapist about other possible diagnosis, like attachment or personality disorder (more specifically the avoidant variation). She's not interested in more labels because she sees all of my challenges fitting under complex trauma, which for me does include early relationship stuff. But it does help me to learn about avoidant attachment styles because it helps me feel like I'm not just unlikable. I come across as indifferent, unpredictable, even unapproachable. I do sometimes crave close connections, but I'm pretty certain I need them less than most people. My personal safety (isolation) seems to be more important.

I've had friends that I have deeply missed after we separated because of a move...a few close friends that were healthier and I really felt more confident and happy having someone I could have good conversations with...not like get married, but go biking or out to lunch. And that might be part of the issue too. I confuse guy friends by not wanting to take relationships to the next level. It is either friendship or it is sex...not really both. I value good friendships but at my age, people find their close connections in family. I'm not very interested in a family. I still just want a good friend who I don't have to see all the time. In the process of finding these kind of friends, I ditch out too easily. They don't call me, I stop caring. I rarely get angry. I just expect people to not like me and I avoid more shame at all costs. It takes a surge of courage to reach out or try to nurture a new friendship. But I have to be mindful of sending mixed messages. Like @anthony said, I'm responsible for some of this...I try to connect, then just disappear and probably some people think I lost interest or don't understand what happened. I know I've lost a couple genuine friends this way. It has taken a rather large shift in perspective, but I realize I've actually hurt some pretty good people.

Anyway, even if it's not another diagnosis, maybe it's helpful for you to learn about attachment styles. Or consider a therapist who is willing to address attachment issues with or without a defined attachment disorder. I probably don't have an attachment disorder, but I definitely have a difficult attachment "style" (they are different). Like @Justmehere my therapist is somatic experiencing and she is able to work with some of the attachment stuff. She provides pretty good stability and predictability and we work on the boundary stuff, like I can let her know when she is physically too close or if it would help if she would be closer, etc.

 

[scout86]

I had an interesting session with my T yesterday which kind of boiled down to "My mom actually was the origin of my PTSD, wasn't she? It wasn't the molestation that came a few years later?" VERY interesting conversation. I was lucky enough to have a few nice people who liked me wander in and out of my life. I have NO idea what her deal is/was and my T has suggested that I not even spend any time wondering about it.

So, to a point, I really get the idea of not understanding what all this "attachment" stuff is about. Since there was no one around, reliable, to attach to, pretty much from day one, I adapted by deciding that was ok, I didn't really NEED anyone else anyway, I was FINE all by myself. Some days I actually believe that. And, yet, I watch other people with their kids. and their parents, and I wonder what I missed and how much impart it has on TODAY. I'd be willing to bet it has some.

@Solara, there are a few things about you that have consistently puzzled me. This business about "trusting the process". Seriously? With the wrong person running the show, the "process" becomes unrecognizable. In my version of reality, there IS no process. There is only the relationship and the journey. Which has made my particular journey complicated. Because I keep thinking there's no way I can trust him because "everyone" is only interested in me because they want something. I learned, pretty much from day one, I guess, that the only reason I'm on the planet was to fulfill someone else's needs and desires. No one could possibly be interested in "me" just for me. (I can by that my T is interested because he's curious and because he's getting paid.) But, you know what? It's just possible that there might actually BE someone out there who would care about me "just because". I don't know. Haven't met everyone in the world yet.

So, in MY version of reality, when you talk about "trusting the process", you're just blowing smoke or whistling in the dark, more likely. And yet, you seem to have a relationship with your biological family. And, you've expressed a desire to be in a relationship with a person of the opposite sex. I'm not saying that ANY of that is "wrong". Not offering any kind of judgement at all. Just pointing out that it's an interesting combination. I'm not sure your position on this topic is as set in stone as you're making it sound.

Part if yesterday's session involved a discussion of "labels". My T said he figured he could come up with at least 11 for my mother. (He was probably joking.) When I expressed surprise at the number, he laughed and talked about how "the book of labels" has expanded over time. And yet people haven't really changed, in the history of "the book:". He then said that HE wouldn't be happy until the number of labels was in the billions and that HE had one too. It's "M", which is his name. We're all unique and that's ok, unless something about it causes us a problem.

@Solara, there's something about this topic that causes problems for you, that's pretty clear. You're probably on to something. "Now" might be a good time to pack up your intellect and an open mind and go in search of the answers. At least some answers.

 

[Friday]

I don't want anything from most of the people that I love, most of the time. If i do, I generally ask them. And, in my world, "no" is always an acceptable answer to a question. It doesn't change the way I feel or think about them.

And by not wanting anything... I mean not their time, thought, word, or deed. I'm variously thrilled to vexed when they offer it. More usually thrilled. As well as surprised. As they are under no obligation to think, feel, or do anything. So if they're choosing to ______? Bonus. Revel in it, soak it in, for as long as I'm lucky to have them. But I don't expect or require it in order to love someone. Even if I do ask. I'm fiercely loyal to the people I do choose to have in my life, or be in theirs. Which is a point in the choosing, as I love people I choose not to have in my life, as well.

It's not low self esteem on my part. I have standards. One of which being that love (platonic or romantic) is freely given. Anything tit for tat is a business relationship. Which has its place, as well. I don't mean to undervalue exchanges in expectation of return. Friendships and relationships often have a business or pragmatic aspect to them. The politics, mutually agreed upon rules of engagement. But, to me, that is the least part of a friendship. What they can do for me is not why I love someone. It's why I hire someone.

 

[shimmerz]

I feel like if one were to break it 'attachment' down to something simple, it is easier to see perhaps. If I decide that I want a coffee and go into a shop for one it doesn't have to 'taint' the transaction because I want something. In that tiny space and time I can determine if I want to ask nicely for the coffee, if I want to smile at the person I 'want' the coffee from, if I want to have distant eye contact or warmer eye contact. The person serving the coffee has the same options although are bound by their employment. If I feel good walking out after having a pleasant transaction with said person then I attach to whether or not the transaction makes me feel good. I think the question should be here, @Solara , does the way that you attach to people make you feel good or does it make you feel protected?

 

[sun seeker]

Hmm. I definitely have an attachment disorder, and it manifests very differently from what you are describing. Almost the other side of the coin. That doesn't mean you don't have one too. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was you who expressed interest in the Laurence Heller's book Healing Developmental Trauma, but weren't quite ready to read it yet? People do go in different directions to cope with very early trauma. I found that book explained so much.

Like others, I am taken aback by your allowing others to attach to you and not understanding why they are hurt when you pull away. Yes, there are seven billion of us, but no one person is the same as any other. It may be that those people who enter into those relationships with you are also trying to sort out attachment trauma in their own way by attaching to someone who is unavailable emotionally and is going to dump them. They could be unconsciously reenacting their own abandonment trauma by being attracted to someone who isn't really available (and I mean that in terms of friendship as much as any other kind of relationship). In that sense, if you weren't available they would probably find someone else to work through that dynamic with, but it would be a kindness to let them know up front that this is likely what is going to happen, so you save them and yourself going through that drama and them getting hurt.

I concur with those who have said that bonding with other people is a universal human need. I hear you that you don't get it and don't feel that need, but I'm still saying it's universal. I can almost 100% guarantee that something happened that hurt you so badly that you said "forget it, I'm not letting myself be hurt this way again" and convinced yourself you don't even need people. You might get mad about this, but I still think so.

People are selfish...this is true. You are a person. Therefore, you are also selfish...even if you think you are not like them, and I think, as women, we have been conditioned to not want to be perceived as selfish and we put everyone else first and ourselves last because we think we are better for it and don't want to be judged.

When I was about seven I remember wondering whether there was truly such a thing as altruism. If people do things that put other people first, wasn't it because it made them feel good to put others first, and if so, weren't they doing it for themselves anyway, in a way? I was an odd child.:) Maybe all this means is that at some level we are all connected, part of the sea of consciousness, and we realize that to hurt someone else is the same as hurting ourselves. So yes, people may say "I want a relationship" but implied in that is that both people are involved, giving and receiving, and it feels good to be part of that. They might phrase it as what they want, but isn't part of what they want that good feeling that comes from giving to others in a relationship, seeing someone else grow and and share their life with you? It's part of the dance that is life.

 

[anthony]

@Solara, are you afraid someone may like you for just... well... you? Just curious is all, and I mean you, inner you, crankiness and all. :O_o: