I Know There Is No Such Thing As Complex Ptsd Legally/diagnostically...

[ms spock]

I Know There Is No Such Thing As Complex Ptsd Legally/diagnostically... and Anthony covers that in detail in the below url.
[DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/wow-the-apa-really-got-the-new-ptsd-diagnosis-right.27151/"]https://www.myptsd.com/c/articles/complex-posttraumatic-stress-disorder.5/
[/DLMURL]
When I got my diagnosis I was told I had PTSD. Later it was mentioned I had Complex Trauma. I was also told I had Clinical Depression.

I didn't know until I read this forum that there was never a diagnosis such as Complex PTSD. Despite this, I used to say I have PTSD with Complex Trauma. Was that ever a valid diagnosis? I came to look at the CPTSD as a shorthand for lay people in a sort of way. Sometimes I am annoyed to see it written but it seems to be used so widely I am not sure it is worth arguing about in some ways.

So the two diagnoses are now Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder - With Prominent Dissociative (Depersonalization/Derealization) Symptoms or Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder - Disorders of Extreme Stress, Not Otherwise Specified (DESNOS) would they be the two diagnosis which would provide an umbrella of what some people mistakenly called CPTSD?

I wondered if it would be worth dismantling the lay person's term of CPTSD as would there be a different treatment approach for the above two diagnosis?(Given that I have read correctly that these are the two diagnosis that potentially cover the ground that PSTD with Complex Trauma or "CPTSD" supposedly covered.)

I don't know if I have written this clearly now. I hope that makes sense.

 

[greenleaf]

I think the names vary depending upon the organization coming up with the categories, and what year's manual you're looking at... Research progresses, groups of people come to difference decisions in committees... Scientists *never* all agree.

The Wikipedia article on Complex post-traumatic stress disorder covers the historical issues pretty well - I see you added a link to Anthony's post too...

I just started reading that whole thread, will have to read it more when I have a brain sometime.

 

[Abstract]

Miss Spock. I agree with you. Actually in the UK it is used officially by professionals even though there is no diagnostic criteria laid out. I guess that is the crux of why it can't be the type of formal diagnosed that DSM dissociative subtype is - there has not been an official approved laying out of diagnostic criteria.

Diagnoses is about formulating appropriate treatment and it seems to me that there are huge deficits still when it comes to what we will refer to as CPTSD. I suspect the new subtype will help a lot but I don't think it is enough and I don't know if it has yet generated formal different protocol for treatment. If that has happened I haven't seen it.

I was wondering about this when I did that poll on complex trauma and appropriate treatment. It saddens me to see so many people first not getting useful treatment and many being re-traumatised by treatment before they find help. Some people are lucky of course or somehow manage to come through complex trauma situations without what we know of as complex trauma.

The other thing is that it seems in most countries the term complex trauma is already accepted.

 

[fly away home]

I think in any case treatment would and should be based on the individual. Hopefully not the letters attached to that person. My psychiatrist said, when I asked about diagnosis, it's definitely ptsd with me. Then went on to say "I don't know if you've heard of complex post traumatic stress disorder but that's probably the category you would fit under" and went on to basically explain it as an extreme and chronic (just lovely) stress condition from multiple traumas from a young age and could include many variety of symptoms... This guy looked like he was younger than me so I'd say he's pretty up to date with current diagnosis and labels. I try not to think about the label to much. It's just an easy way to make chapters in books and separate information into easy to follow columns and pie charts.

 

[arfie]

I started therapy in 1972, before there was a PTSD diagnosis. When I let myself go down this rabbit hole, I find it impossible to have any faith whatsoever in my own recovery. They nay sayers with vested interest in doubting my recovery begin to look right that believing high dollar psychobabble is the darkest delusion I have ever suffered.

Psychiatry is still an infant science. Many think it closer to modern theology than science. Yes, everything in psychiatry needs further dissection and study. I cannot afford to wait until all that is done before I believe my own recovery is possible.

Sometimes I think the naysayers are right. Leave the rapid-cycling name-changers of psychobabble to their own game and find a better place to spend your money. They have no stability to offer.

 

[NovemberStar]

I see it this way - no, CPTSD may not be an official diagnosis in the DSM V, but that is not the same thing as it not being a 'real thing'.

I know in my heart of hearts, I have CPTSD. I don't need some book on mental disorders to validate that for me.

I do think it will one day be recognized in the DSM.

I have not read the very first DSM but I am willing to bet there are now many, many, MANY more 'diagnoses' now that, back then, were thought to not exist or were considered 'not real diagnoses'!!!

 

[Barconian]

The C component in PTSD is a symbol as which PTSD is... They are only words to describe something. The meaning of complex is to have more than one trauma, whether or not in the same picture, sound or touch. PTSD also affects people with ADHD, Bipola, Schizophrenia and other mental illnesses as these types of people are more sensitive than most and already have a component of fear in their lives, per se. So the C is only a name :)

 

[cherryblossom]

I wondered if it would be worth dismantling the lay person's term of CPTSD

I don't believe that the lay person understands PTSD, let alone CPTSD.

My understanding is that PTSD is the overall diagnosis, with other sub-type (add on) diagnosis'. Just as 'depression' is one overall diagnosis, and then there are various forms /sub-types of depression (Chronic Depression, Dysthymia, Major Depressive Disorder, etc). Or asthma is the over all diagnosis, but then there are different sub-types of asthma (Allergic asthma, exercise induced asthma, brittle asthma, chronic asthma etc).

The thing is that in all aspects of medicine, the 'experts' want to be able to put anyone who is ill in a box and say this patient has 'A', and the proven treatment is X,Y,Z. But it doesn't always work like that, because we are all different.

I don't think the experts could ever come up with a rigid diagnostic criteria, and therefore treatment plan that will suit everyone. They just have to come up with the 'best fit'. They will continue to try to break down every ailment going, into sub-type, and then further subtypes.

To me, getting an overall diagnosis is the most important thing, and a general idea of the best approach to try to deal with it. The 'experts' will carry on trying to subdivide everything, and yes, there may be progress with regards to treatment options, in our life time.

Just don't get too hung up on it. Work with what you know and don't get too bogged down in the psycho-babble.

 

[Abstract]

Diagnoses are a construct and that is all they are. My concern is when a diagnoses seems to so often lead to a group of people being badly treated or unhelpfully treated before they get what they need. I think the percentage chance of that happening needs to go down and therefore the construct needs to be different if that makes sense.

I would like to see what they do about the dissociative sub type. Whether they create a different protocol for treatment.

 

[Barconian]

My concern is when a diagnoses seems to so often lead to a group of people being badly treated or unhelpfully treated before they get what they need

Sad but true!

Some professionals have only learnt so much in their career and because they can't see or touch the illness, they tend to assume they are correct in their diagnosis. It could be the patient doesn't give enough information, the professional misunderstands what they are told or what they see in the patients behaviour and even some are ignorant to similarities in behaviour patterns, which can be totally different causes to what the patient is being treated for. Therapists are only human themselves and don't know everything, that is why we the patient search for the right therapist to suit our needs!

 

[greenleaf]

It seems to me from the bit of reading I've done this morning, which doesn't make me an expert, that the folks who started using "CPTSD" were trying to point out that not all people with PTSD need the same treatment; the effects of long-term trauma, or childhood trauma, or other variables lead to different issues. The "subtype" approach seems to have come later.

I think part of my worry re. the "subtype" approach is that EMDR seems to be effective pretty quickly and thoroughly for a fair number of people who have PTSD after a single trauma after a "normal" childhood, esp. if they are "high-functioning" adults (I was just reading an article on that).

So, since some people want to discount PTSD anyhow, if they read some article about that group of PTSD sufferers who recovered fairly quickly after EMDR, will happily decide that everyone now should be treatable in a few nice easy sessions. (As if...)

They might then be more likely to blame people for not recovering if their issues need longer treatment, or even never totally go away... if we use the same term, just PTSD, with an asterisk that says *with a subtype that is some unpronounceable phrase... The subtype terminology might be more easily ignored by laypeople, in other words.

This is sort of a gut reaction on my part, not based on clinical analysis or research. There are clinical issues that the term "CPTSD" is too broad for, and I'm still trying to read through Anthony's thread...

 

[Abstract]

that everyone now should be treatable in a few nice easy sessions.

That's the problem. Generally that is what happens already. That's why people feel the need for a CPTSD subtype. It doesn't react like single adult trauma.