Sexual Assault I Think I Was Raped - But I'm Devastated That I'm Not "sure"

[Meadowsweet]

@RussH I shared my opinion and there are 9 posts on this thread that rather than accepting it and just providing a different view, actually attempt to invalidate the opposite view. So please don't tell me after all that that my views are valid - they clearly weren't!

I personally do not find support from people telling me that my experiences are rape and not allowing me to acknowledge my personal responsibilities in those situations. I personally do not find it helpful or even comforting to be told 'oh it's not your fault' 'there was nothing you could do' 'he's the one to blame'. So no, telling everyone and anyone the exact same thing - "he raped you, it's not your fault"- is not the same thing as being supportive.

Being supportive is allowing people to have a voice, and letting the person asking make their own minds up - not attempting to invalidate anything that is different to what you have decreed is the one and only way to be supportive!

 

[joeylittle]

I really wish the phrase "(they) got me drunk" could be purged from the vocabulary.

Unless you were unaware you were drinking - you got you drunk, no-one else. And the only time you can claim to have not known what was going on is the very first time you've gotten drunk. Most people learn what 'drunk' is by exceeding their personal limit. And sometimes it takes a few times to learn your limit. But even those times - you know you've entered the danger zone.

I don't think anyone ever forgets their first 'drunk'.

This doesn't mean it's OK for someone to sexually assault another person - ever. It's not OK. No means no.

If you drink past your known tolerance point - even if you push right up to it, knowingly - you are putting yourself in danger, full stop.

The danger could be alcohol poisoning
The danger could be choking on your own vomit
The danger could be having a trip-and-fall that is fatal
The danger could be driving, and killing yourself or someone else.

You would be unaware of these things, because you were blind drunk.

And yes, the danger is that you can be attacked.

The attacking is not your fault. But putting yourself in multiple forms of danger - that is something the individual takes responsibility for, no-one else.

I push him off saying "No. This isn't going to happen". He stopped, and I got up and went to the other bed.

Ok, this is clear - no meant no.

That evening I resolved to drink less,

He was buying the drinks and I accepted them without too much thought.

This is something the OP needs to be aware of, and hopefully get some help with being OK refusing drinks. I know it's hard, actually - I've been there a million times, and made a million mistakes - which is why I say, it's not easy to learn how to be confident in making your own choices (sometimes), esp. in social settings, and if you have learned that's a thing you do, it's worth working on. It applies to more than just drinking.

Next thing I know we're back at the hotel room. I'm naked and so is he. He's on top of me and I am violently sobbing. I push him off and run to the bathroom, slamming and locking the door behind me. I sink onto the floor crying hysterically.

I am sorry for the OP that she went through this. It is terrifying to suddenly 'come to' and be in a situation where you are distressed. But if she doesn't remember how they got from the bar to naked, the sobbing can't be attributed to anything, except this:

When I come out he is crying too - "no girl has ever burst into tears while I was having sex with them". I told him that it was my fault, that I was the one who had cheated. Then we both went to sleep (in our separate beds).

(bolding for emphasis)
This makes it possible that her emotional response was not due to assault, but instead was due to bad-feeling (guilt, shame, something like). It is also what she told him. And if he wasn't assaulting her, then what would be the reason for him to not take this at face value?

When we talked about it he said that he was sorry and that he really "liked me" - but he was quick to point out that he hadn't "taken advantage". I told him I couldn't remember what had happened and asked him to tell me how it had happened. He said "Why - what are you suggesting?" and I responded "No, nothing - of course nothing".

So far, he has admitted he likes her, has emphasized that he did not take advantage. We don't know the tone used in "tell me how it happened", we do know he responded defensively "why-what are you suggesting" - and she stopped the conversation. That's what this exchange is.

I told him that I had to tell my boyfriend and he tried to talk me out of it but, at first, I resisted telling him not to bother. When we got the airport to go home he tried again. This time he was saying things like "imagine what people will think of you, no one will think less of me but they will of you" and "what will your friends say". I told him I thought my boyfriend would forgive me but he countered "I wouldn't be so sure, this is really bad. I faltered. After about 15 minutes of persuasion I gave in and agreed not to tell anyone.

This is the paragraph that had me, at first, assuming it had been assault.

But after reading it over a few times - there are too many other possible reasons why he was so insistent, and the number one reason is to avoid personal embarrassment. From his perspective, "no girl has cried when having sex with me before" - if you view the event through the lens of, it was a drunken encounter that went quite far until she realized what she was doing - burst into tears and ran away sobbing to the bathroom - I did this to a guy once, myself. And I say "I did this to a guy" because in my case, it had nothing to do with him and I knew it - but he was devastated. Really, really confused and devastated. And talked about shame, and talked about confusion, and anxiety.

So, that's one possible reason.

For the OP: As long as there can be another story - then nothing should be assumed of anyone without getting at the missing facts of the situation.

How could i have these violent reactions to that if everything that happened was "legitimate".

Because it was scary. Because of guilt. Because of mounting fear that you don't know what happened in that time you cannot remember. Blackout fear is a really, real thing. But it doesn't mean the answer is, he raped you. I think the thing you could start working on first is this:

how could I be unsure, how could I not know, how could I let other similar things happen to me again, and how could I have kept putting myself in those positions?

I don't know either - but I do know that it's hard to stand up for oneself. And if you go into therapy, and you start working on this issue, it's going to help relieve your suffering. You might also end up remembering what actually happened, which would be really useful to you.

But most of all I don't understand - how can he think he's done nothing wrong, and will I ever be sure that he did?

He can think it, because it's possible that he didn't.

You might not be OK with sitting down and having a full conversation about what happened that night, right now. And that's OK. I think it makes sense to get help, regardless. And get yourself to the point where you can talk to this person openly about what exactly happened that night. Do it in a safe environment, etc, but I think you are likely going to need to do it.

Until then - you can't know or not know. To go forward and report the guy for rape would be, in my opinion, not only wrong-headed but also possibly personally damaging to the OP - because from a neutral stance, there is not enough here to know whether it was rape or not.

If she decides "he raped me" - she is possibly adding years and years more hurt and struggle to her life. I think it's worth it to not jump to the conclusion.

OP, work on the things you do know, the things you do remember, the guilt you feel about those, and the shame as well. That in and of itself is a lot of work. And then, see what you want to do next. But the mind is a powerful thing. If you 'decide' you were raped, based on your instinct that you were, you are causing more harm to yourself, not making it easier - not at this point.

Sorry, I wrote a chapter in a novel. I think witch-hunts are very dangerous. I know from experience that having blackout time and restoring into something shocking is incredibly upsetting, and holds onto you, and breeds fear. And in my experience, the answer isn't first knowing what happened - it's leaving it factually blank but working on the first, real issue - that you incapacitated yourself and feel intense shame and guilt about it. And you go from there.

 

[The Albatross]

The core issue over and over for me when working with teens and college age young people... particularly girls, was that asserting themselves and resisting escalating pressure for sex was not something that mothers of the 40's, 50's and 60's modeled for their daughters. I can't tell you how many young girls and women keep themselves in a situation that is increasingly dangerous to the end of the guest poster. It is though changing... women are much more likely to discuss these issues with their daughters or the girls themselves seek out an older women to discuss it with.

Yeah "no" means no... but once said, remove yourself from the situation and don't for God's sake continue drinking.

 

[joeylittle]

resisting escalating pressure

yes, this. I think it goes for pressure in any social situation - drugs, alcohol, sex, but also stealing, lying, bullying, hatred.

 

[RussH]

Let us not forget that we are talking about Aliceinwonderland's situation. I addressed what she said, and confined my comments her situation.
I do not know of your, Meadowsweet, situation, or circumstances, so I did not address them.

If you will notice, I did suggest that Aliceinwonderland may have shown poor judgement, or at least did not exercise the best judgement, but based on what she said, I stand by my opinion.

 

[The Albatross]

It is an opinion... like we all have them... my own experiences in the area that the opening poster describes led me to my own conclusion of poor judgment because I put myself there and did not remove my from the situations when I had the opportunity... and continued to consume alcohol, which no one poured down my throat. I picked up the glass, I put it to my lips, I drank it. To me it was a bad combination of factors, but ultimately it was me that impaired my ability to refuse consent. I did not have to stay in the situation. But that was more than 35 years ago for me. Several situations.

It affected me certainly... but I was already an undiagnosed PTSD and had all the baggage that came along with what happens when I tried to remove myself from a dicey situation from my main abuser. It was not modeled for me how to extricate myself successfully by my mother or the other women. I chose not to call it "rape" as I had experienced that as well, unimpaired. But that was my own call.

 

[Peach]

You can put me down in the "not rape" category. I'll try not to go into a long, detailed analysis because I think @Meadowsweet , @itsKismet , and @joeylittle have already expressed their thoughts (and mine) eloquently.

This may not make me very popular, but I'm going to say it anyway:

There is not nearly enough evidence, in my mind, to suggest this was rape. Without being 100% sure, it would be awful to potentially ruin an innocent man's life by reporting him to authorities or putting that information out into his social circle (perhaps via Facebook) when you have no concrete proof and you yourself don't even seem to believe that it did indeed happen that way. You could also really damage his self-esteem if you continually bring up the incident. If you keep suggesting to him that he raped you, which is what you're doing everytime you ask for clarification, he could even start to wonder if he really did do something wrong. What a heavy burden for someone to carry IF they truly are a decent person.

"imagine what people will think of you, no one will think less of me but they will of you" and "what will your friends say

Another possibility that hasn't been touched on about why he said those things is that he was scared! Was is a stupid thing for him to say? ABSOLUTELY!!! But again, you're repeated questioning of the events to him is basically an accusation. Desparate times call for desparate measures. If someone accused me of rape and I KNOW I had done no such thing and didn't know what kind of "crazy person" I was dealing with and how much trouble they were going to make for me, I would probably try every tactic I could to get them to drop the subject.

The entire situation makes me think you are young, immature, and bit off more than you could chew. It is a tragic stain on what otherwise sounds like a nice vacation to experience the world. Guess what - you just got a lot more experience and (hopefully) learned a big lesson! Albeit, the hard way.

You made bad decision, after bad decision, after bad decision. Everyone has mentioned the alcohol; your lack of self control and allowing yourself to become completely s**t-faced multiple times and your inability to stick with your decision to cut yourself off for the night. If you can't drink in moderation, don't drink at all. I don't think anyone even said anything about you dumping the group of friends you were with to run off with a virtual stranger of the opposite sex and sharing a room with him. Just because there were two beds, which I'm sure were only a foot apart, does not mean nothing will happen - on purpose, accident, or by force. Period.

Personally, I think you should chalk it up to being a huge misunderstanding. Get professional help for yourself if needed. And either talk to your friend as if nothing happened or cut off the communication all together. You can't be on the fence - it isn't fair to either of you.

 

[vtap]

If it was me in her situation and I had a partner and my friends were suggesting the guy who is accused of rape was interested in me then I would not isolate myself with this person and definitely not get drunk with them. To me this would be common sense. We all know drinking alcohol can impair your decision making. If the drinks were spiked at all then that would be another matter.

If the girl was sober then she would know for sure whether she has been raped or not. The fact she can't remember much means you cannot rule out the possibility of her agreeing to have sex at some point during the encounter.

 

[Meadowsweet]

@RussH you should stand by your opinion. I wish I had had the strength to stand by mine. But what happened here is that when a different opinion was posted, several posters jumped on it to point out that it must be wrong, to invalidate it and not allow a different opinion to stand.

You gave the non-acceptance of a different opinion some authority by stating that 'the important thing was to recognise the trauma and give the op our support' inferring that support is only to validate it as rape and take away any responsibility from the person. The point I made by using my own experience, is that there is no authority on what is supportive, different people find support (and give support) in different ways.

 

[The Albatross]

Hmmm. When posting as a member in a discussion, opinions are just that, opinions. What does "non-acceptance of a different opinion some authority..." even mean? To me it is obvious that to Russ, "the important thing is to recognize the trauma and to give the op support". To you, it was speaking from your own experience, to me it was a combination of my own experience and working for a time with teenaged girls who ran into these situations either directly or via friends and needed/wanted a perspective from a mature woman not their parent.

My posts are my own experience as well... however I did not read other posts in the discussion in the in the manner you did. I do not find, for instance posts that cast doubt on the "rape" angle "not being supportive". I also do not find it is surprising that it is not a clear cut and dry case and that people do not agree.

I do not think anything posted thus far is "victim blaming" either. The matter is not clear cut "rape"... to me, though the situation with expressly unwanted inappropriate touching was wrong. Staying in the situation and choosing to continue to self-impair judgment with alcohol was a contributing factor in my opinion. When presented with these type of situations when I was a young woman... I chose to examine them and see them as pivotal moments. Places where clearly I was not making decisions or picking people that were safe. I don't think you'll find very many people who will agree with me on that score, but my bottom line was... if I wanted to reduce the risks of future situations and being taken advantage of, I acknowledged my own contribution to the incident and endeavored to initiate change. I also endeavored to cultivate friendly relationships with safer people, and tried to figure out what "safe people" actually were.

As a child and early teen, I was helpless to remove myself from the abuse... as a young woman I learned that I had no experiences or skills to draw on to use in situations like the opening poster. Several repetitions of the same or similar situations with several young men taught me quickly I needed to learn and do something differently or expect more of the same. I chocked it up as a lesson... very uncomfortable and upsetting lesson that demonstrated that I was ill prepared for assertiveness, problem solving and decision making.

 

[Meadowsweet]

@The Albatross, I deleted my replies and I think it was just because my opinion stood out as being different from the other replies at that time, that people jumped in to try and oust them. Now more people have given similar responses, but mine was the fist and maybe stood out as a bad in a field of general consensus.

 

[The Albatross]

"...stood out as bad in a field of general consensus" is again you're personal perception. It is a discussion. Good/bad, right/wrong, supportive/not supportive... rationally you know they are all relative terms and highly individual. I didn't see the thread til yesterday... however, posturing yourself against another poster's opinion is not particularly helpful for you or the opening poster. Neither, at times, is "general consensus"... mob mentality for instance is not necessarily right or just or good.

Go easy on yourself Meadowsweet... but I think I would self examine some about the connections you made about the discussion in the post? Thank you too, for receiving my post with the spirit in which it was given.