I Want To Kill...

[Tanishq]

I agree with Ms Spock's views as well. Otakujome clearly needs support, guidance and direction. 14 yr is way too early to mature all the things. Simply too much. When I was 14, people were expecting lot of things from me and I know how that went. Not very good.

 

[Ronin]

@anonymous: One note. Issues of those parents don't excuse abuse. It's their responsibility *as parents* to keep themselves in check. This isn't some tough love, or slips in care, they'd be doing. The pattern is different, perceived by him as abusive & destroying his ability to deal with life. It's apologetic to call that a caring behavior.

 

[anonymous]

Agreed if they are being verbally abusive they need to stop. Never said that the way they are going about it is right. Just they might actually be terrified watching their son spiral into drinking and also have no help how to deal with it and maybe ptsd themselves if they have been through the war. No excuse they need serious parenting skills but this maybe not so black and white as a teenage boy us seeing it.

 

[ms spock]

@anonymous: One note. Issues of those parents don't excuse abuse.

No it doesn't.

 

[Ronin]

@anonymous, nothing is black and white but bw photos... but I don't think that's actually what the topic here is. We're not having this discussion with his parents, his parents aren't here with asking for advice, what possible help they need is a different topic altogether and frankly just derailing from the conversation with Otakujome about his life and choices that are wise or not. Plus, again, victim blaming. 'It's not so black and white'. An abused kid is seriously considering killing his parents... doesn't strike me as there being anything to debate about their qualities.

(And tbqh on a personal level irks me a bit. All of this excusing abusive behavior with 'just PTSD', where a more vulnerable child/teen doesn't get cut nearly the same slack. They. Are. Adults. They can deal with their mess. He's not there to fix their messes and how his behavior effects them is *still* their problem to sort, and responsibility, not his.)

 

[ms spock]

You are trying to tease out some tricky issues @Kaia, and I respect that. They are real issues that need to be looked out.

The immediate issue is that if Otakujome goes to kill his parents, then that is a huge problem, not just for his parents, but for him also. That is a point of crossing the line from being abused to being the abuser. There are actually other options.

And he is trained in martial arts, his body is a weapon, so just some shoving between normal people might be lethal in this situation.

Otakujome is really liked and cared for on this forum, by what I have seen. I have spoken to him in chat. I encourage all of the people here to support him, if the can, in his journey.

If his alcohol and drug use is out of control, then yes his parents, have to be taken into account. There is no slack to be given for self destructive behaviour that results in death, and in a short time as well. That is called enabling, in my book.

If he stays alive and out of jail, then there is a lot to work with there. If he dies or is in jail, then that limits his life options. There are immediate, serious consequences to his behaviours. I am for him staying alive. I am not for him killing or harming his parents.

 

[anonymous]

I did not excuse their behaviour I said that they need help just as @otakujome does. He is on here not them and his behaviour is dangerous and needs changing as does his parents. His behaviour could kill him or he is threatening to kill them. He has lost of excuses for his behaviour ptsd abusive parents I well understand his behaviour problem is cutting him slack and saying ok continue that way because it is understandable because you are not mature enough or you are being abused and have shit heads as parents will lead to his death or imprisonment or someone else's death.

 

[moonbeam]

Wow this has taken on a mind of its own.

I can understand everyone's sides. Posting about anger and wanting to kill is worrying. Drinking with this mindset is doubly so. Especially at his age. I don't think anyone wants to enable him. Or for anything bad to happen to anyone. Nobody wants him to drink. And I did try suggesting other coping mechanisms like books, a diary, a sport like martial arts (for the discipline and order it brings), or meditation.

The concern is that he is a fellow sufferer in a difficult place and is turning to us in pain. He doesn't seem to have many people in his life whi understand and support him (off the forum I mean). I would be worried that if this debate continues that he won't feel safe turning to us when he is in need.

I do think that while giving him the advice not to drink is good. We have covered that already. Only he has the power to change that.

Right now the best thing we can offer is an ear to listen, a safe place to release these emotions and our support.

Otakujome, I sincerely hope you know this is all because we care about you and your safety. Please try to remember that you are not alone in this.

 

[anonymous]

And I did not say he should fix their behaviour or problems. Just he should look at his own behaviour before it kills him.

 

[Ronin]

You are trying to tease out some tricky issues @Kaia, and I respect that. They are real issues that need to be looked out.

The immediate issue is that if Otakujome goes to kill his parents, then that is a huge problem, not just for his parents, but for him also. That is a point of crossing the line from being abused to being the abuser. There are actually other options.

The thing is, the thread spiralled into some sort of 'is he a terrible drinker / are Croatian norms worse than American' kind of discussion. Not what the topic was about at all, & getting out of hands.

And he is trained in martial arts, his body is a weapon, so just some shoving between normal people might be lethal in this situation.

Multiple notes: not even a few years of training can get one to really say 'trained in martial arts' with the same responsibility. Let alone a few months. Beginner =/ trained in martial arts. Also: it's not the trained people that are danger/risk. It's the amateurs.
His body is a weapon? So is yours. So is everybody's.
And again: acting this or that way where unintended = bigger possible problem. This kid thinks about possibilities with seriousness. Sure, they're not *nice* possibilities. But they're given thought. That's better than going out and acting, without ever mentioning it to anybody.

Also: he doesn't talk about homicidal ideation except in situations he's being actively abused. He's not preoccupied with the thought of killing people, but with getting himself *safe*. Different animal.

Normal people... que???

If his alcohol and drug use is out of control, then yes his parents, have to be taken into account. There is no slack to be given for self destructive behaviour that results in death, and in a short time as well. That is called enabling, in my book.

There is a way to take people into account without absolving them of responsibility for how they created or contributed to an existing situation to begin with.

If he stays alive and out of jail, then there is a lot to work with there. If he dies or is in jail, then that limits his life options. There are immediate, serious consequences to his behaviours. I am for him staying alive. I am not for him killing or harming his parents.

I think that's been a general consensus & plain common sense.
It's the *how's* of staying on the safe side we've been discussing, before things spiraled into who's better and worse lines.

Thank you for bringing the topic back on topic. ;)

 

[shimmerz]

Dealing with PTSD is about understanding how 'our' actions help us or hurt us. Taking responsibility. We are taught the maturity that is necessary for working on 'our' issues. Yes, he has the option of having to mature quickly OR he will spiral completely out of control and perhaps learn that is his way out when in reality he is making matters worse for himself. Well O - learn maturity or spin out? You are smart. Which one is best?

For myself, I will encourage him how to act responsibly through this. That means grounding. We all know that. Drinking crazy amounts of booze and saying 'I am going to 'kill' is not the way towards grounding. I will not give him excuses nor nod my head for fear that he will not come back for advice when he spins out of control. He is setting a damaging life pattern for himself and I won't be included in that.

Ready to kill at 14? What happens at 20? Where are you going to be at 20 O if you keep up what you are doing and saying?

 

[Ronin]

Ready to kill at 14? What happens at 20? Where are you going to be at 20 O if you keep up what you are doing and saying?

You're implying a kind of street to prison pipeline that simply isn't there.
Quite often, the process of growing up and gaining different perspective and coping skills interrupts it.