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Identity

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Chris-duck

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I'm not sure if I can explain this right, but I'm thinking about this a lot. I grew up in a family and general culture where it wasn't really safe to say what I thought/cared about/believed in. I know what *big* things I care about cos they'd be worth the fight, but for all the little things I don't even know what I think cos I'm so used to just looking and taking my best guess at what is a safe answer.

People who know me probably wouldn't really think it to be an issue cos if I care about something I'm really opinionated on it. But it's frustrating feeling like I don't really know myself. And it adds to me not feeling like a real person, just a mirror of other people. Even though I know that's not actually how I am, cos I do like and care about stuff. And I know I can voice those things to my friends and they'd be like "oh cool" and there would be no backlash.

I think I'm just asking if anyone else feels this way? Or if anyone used to and how they got past it? It's not a massive issue, cos like I said, I know about the big things I care about so it just makes me annoyingly indecisive on the small things. But I don't want any of my decisions to be based on "omg best work out what this other person wants me to say", no matter how small the decision.

It's frustrating, because part of me knows it's stupid and part of me has seen the shitty consequences of people saying the wrong thing. So my brain tries to balance it out. But I'm also not in that culture now so I'm pretty safe to say and think whatever, but it's kinda stuck I guess.

Thanks for anything anyone can offer :)
 
I think what you're describing is called 'being normal.' Nearly everyone worries a little bit about what other people think, and seeks to preserve unity within the group by compromising between group-think and self-expression. The others in your group likely feel the same. "Getting past it" would mean ignoring the group in favour of your own opinon, all the time - since you've already identified that you're comfortable with expressing yourself on subjects important or close to you.

I'm completely in favour of violating norms and ignoring group-think. When I want their opinion I'll read it from their entrails, old-school style.
 
IMHO, opinions are worth less than stances & values & acts.

Things that sway in the winds of time, vs the things that stay.

Being influenced by others doesnt make you a mindless drone. It makes you a well socialized, minding other people and considering the culture, human.
 
Something “exactly the same but completely different”? ;)

I oftentimes feel like “Pick a life, any life, I’ve lived too many lives.” ...because my life has taken sooooo many 180 degree turns. I’m always “me” in them, but they’re different versions of myself, from the subtle to the radical. TBH the subtle shifts are more of a mindf*ck than the dramatic, because it’s easier for me to do something completely different / compartmentalize this here that there.

Getting all symptomatic again has meant that ALL those lives dogpiled one on top of each other. Pieces from this life here, that life there... it’s like throwing a stack of plates down, and then attempting to make one plate out of all their pieces??? :eek: Or worse... reassemble all of them into their original plates. f*ck me.

But those plate shards? Are me. Were me. And I’m just sort of kneeling in the mess of them holding different pieces together going Who the f*ck am I??? Which part of my life does THIS belong to? My life now? A life back then? Which one back when? f*ck f*ck f*ckity f*ck f*ck.

:confused: :arghh; >>> :mad: -or- :sleep: -or- :dead:
 
Identity is massive! huge and IMHO one of the best way to recover from PTSD.

You touched a nerve as I dealt with identity a lot in order to push through a really HIGH WALL.You are onto a magnificent junction and I do not want to give you half assed story of my journey in this. And it is extremely hard to articulate but I will get back to you. I am just so freaking happy you can articulate it this way....you are much closer to the door than you realize.

I want to add these three links for you to read at your leisure and try not to identify or attach or like too much just read and see if they resonate with you.
Ferenczi's concept of identification with the aggressor: understanding dissociative structure with interacting victim and abuser self-states. - PubMed - NCBI

http://icpla.edu/wp-content/uploads...k-about-identification-with-the-aggressor.pdf

http://www.traumatheory.com/do-holocaust-survivors-unconsciously-want-to-kill-their-children/



Furthermore, if you allow you have inherited 50% of your each parent's DNA, to become healthier, you must allow that your psychological interjects are from your parents (or siblings) from when you were developing your personality, character etc. Just like Friday used the metaphor of the plates at the top of each, yes your things biologically and your parents, siblings and other things are all mixed and those thoughts you have in your head that are like what I do not think like that anymore are most likely interjects - so in essence you but yet just like DNA also given to you! hope this makes sense...I am rushing but I am passionate about this identity and PTSD thing.
If confused, offended, or feel annoyed, please let me know.
 
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I have thought about your post and I am really interested in how you and others experience your identity as consequence of most trauma and more so in PTSD.

I am honing on this particular quote of yours:

People who know me probably wouldn't really think it to be an issue cos if I care about something I'm really opinionated on it. But it's frustrating feeling like I don't really know myself. And it adds to me not feeling like a real person, just a mirror of other people. Even though I know that's not actually how I am, cos I do like and care about stuff.

It is interesting really why something comes up in our consciousness and all of sudden we start to notice more and more...this is where I am and have been for while about my journey: who am I with or without PTSD? and how much did I eat/identified, digested, swallowed of my parents' feelings, psychological states, their own traumas, beliefs and feelings?

Recently, I read someplace about a little story that went like this: an autopsy was done and they found an apple in the belly so they could determine when the person died was not that long ago cause he did not digest the apple yet. But imagine if the person ate the apple much longer than when found, then, the apple would have been digested and they would not be able to determine the time of death (think of this in the medieval times before technology and other methods for simplicity). It is simple analogy. This is like trauma...especially childhood or long-term trauma not just one time incident. The trauma is so digested, it is part of our blood and bones by now.

Now we are here, some of us have the apple in our belly and can maybe easily determine what is us and what is not but a lot of us the apple (trauma and those inflicted on us) are metabolized and have become a part of us ---so how do I know what is me from my genetics and what is my mother's extreme intrusion into my psyche as a helpless little child?

I have come to this understanding for me and I hope it helps you in your search or at least add another perspective. I learned that whenever I am super opinionated (like I can feel it in my body) or need to convincing others to think my way or strongly validate my view, that is a signal this is not my thing but a carrier from the past – however it can be good or bad (not always bad is what I am trying to say here). It is like I do not need to defend I am a woman (as an example...I am aware some of us get hurt this way and have struggled in this area but for simple example), I am integrated in my womanhood that it is no strong thing but I am a bit (speaking from my internal make up) a bit hard to convince myself or others, I am healthier than I am why is that? Just as an example. It is most likely, and there are memories of this that I was convinced I was sick when I was young child and I was given a lot of meds and stuff but weirdly no one knows what I had and I have absolutely no physical illnesses today arising or related to anything in the past. I think my trauma was the problem but it was blamed on me so I am still protesting in my body but also because I digested this so much and ended up having PTSD - which one is it? the egg or the chicken? Was I really sick from being abused, neglected and am I sick from PTSD today? Both are true but then why do I protest so much that I am healthy because I also am…you see it is fight of the mind! Confusion of time and consciousness. So I accept I am healthy and I have had PTSD and both are true and there is nothing to convince because I agree with my mind and body. Where this relates to identity is we do similar things we believe we need this amount of money to live on but we do not have that and we are not accepting that we fight against – that is confusion of identity. We feel marriage is strong if you just allow the person to do their thing even drinking and gambling cause they are not beating you down and yet we are depressed and anxious about this marriage – again confusion.

Those are easy to see because they are negative scenarios. But imagine when there is a good thing we learned from an abuser and we are so stuck of not doing that cause well my mother taught me to shower before bed or shower before school or something more fundamental like she was abusive to me but also told me often I was strong - hard to take both in and manage as a child let alone as an adult with PTSD.

It is that ingrained. So the way I know I am not identifying with what was put inside of my (my psychological gain from my mother both good and bad) and I am separate from my mother, is I become conscious when I am too strong on feeling or belief that I feel unreal or performing or exhausted or others tell me hmmm really you believe that. I take a step back.



All my ideas of mental health, men, marriage, relationships, pride, family etc are all from my mother's bad side and I no longer have same feelings as my family. Where I keep what I got from my mother and my family is the resilience it takes to live with PTSD and have the unbelievable hope (that sometimes becomes pure denial if not conscious in my family).

So who am I today? I am my mother's daughter but I do not act like her and I am conscious of that and when I do feel or act like the parts I inherited by my upbringing; it feels as you put it a bit unreal in my body! and I do not dismiss that. I acknowledge that and softly and compassionately sit on it.

I saw Jordan Peterson's video on youtube (regardless of what you may think of him), he made a point one time that completely resonated with me in different way than he intended. He said something like PTSD is the result of meeting with evil eye to eye and not becoming like the evil and suffering for the rest of your life because you are still afraid. I vehemently disagreed with him and think that PTSD is like meeting with evil and becoming just like the evil, until (depending on your age) and feeling or the rest of your life something is wrong with you when in fact, you just become like your abuser and resisting it internally or worse you just become evil exactly like the abuser to others or to yourself body harming and other body abuses.

At some point, we may wake up and decide I have the evil raised me but I am not the evil because I do not act like one (not saying think like one cause some of we may think like evil - not discounting myself but choose not to act on what we learned from the evil). But the key is live consciously and not act on evil thoughts that were interjected and intruded upon us as children. And to me that is the recovery of PTSD for me and I think like my mother sometimes but I choose to act differently and it is becoming a learning and a new identity for me.

Long blahha but this is my take on identity and ptsd in my life.

ps. my points are most likely applicable to more cptst rather than veteran or adult related ptsd.
 
Hi, yes I hear this. My interests are often borrowed from the people around me rather than welling up from within. Yoga stuff is the only thing I sought independently. So I take real comfort in moving toward those things, because I know it is just coming from me.

Abusive environments teach us to live outside in rather than inside out.

I try to have opinions based on my values but unfortunately people close to me tell me that I'm really capricious and inconsistent despite my best efforts. I don't have a stable identity exactly but in a yoga path you're supposed to be kind of melding with a higher version of yourself anyway so I take advantage of that.

I remember this movie the Runaway Bride where she always took on her partner's preferences and didn't know what her own were so in the part of the movie where the main character grows, she started trying to figure things out with trial and error. They showed this mostly with eggs. She cooked eggs about every way you can cook eggs ans tried them all to see what she enjoyed.

I think it's ok to not have strong opinions about everything. I'm trying to work on living more from the inside out honoring my core self as the person whose approval matters the most because I am aligning with that as a person that wants my best interest and wants to help me be by best self in the world which makes me better for others but that is like way down the road eventually a goal because I have to learn to listen to myself better first.

Hope that helps? You aren't alone.

(This is also more of a complex PTSD with a dash of dissociation answer.)
 
I saw Jordan Peterson's video on youtube (regardless of what you may think of him), he made a point one time that completely resonated with me in different way than he intended. He said something like PTSD is the result of meeting with evil eye to eye and not becoming like the evil and suffering for the rest of your life because you are still afraid. I vehemently disagreed with him and think that PTSD is like meeting with evil and becoming just like the evil, until (depending on your age) and feeling or the rest of your life something is wrong with you when in fact, you just become like your abuser and resisting it internally or worse you just become evil exactly like the abuser to others or to yourself body harming and other body abuses.

Slight change to my comment about Peterson. He was actually right on his point but it is not the only way...that was what I was trying to say rather than one or the other is right. There are people who saw the evil and refuse to acknowledge teh evil impacted this much at all and took their good parts and changed their identity and they die trying to deny and deny and those who become like the abuser and continue traumatizing others - many variations after trauma as obvious as we all know.
 
Hi Chris-duck, it's really strange, I could almost swear I wrote the thing you posted, it's definitely something I've been thinking a lot about in the past months, and you even phrased it just like how I talk :-)
The only difference in my case is that when I start to open up to my family or long time friends, they very often get surprised by what I say (I seem to be full of controversial opinions & ideas!), but they still accept me, even if I have different views than all of them :-)
I've just started working on finding my identity in the past 2 weeks a little, I thought about the fact that I don't wear any jewelry, I can't do any hairstyles I like because I'm a balding man, and I have always just chosen clothes that will make me seem normal and fairly invisible. But now that I'm trying to find my true identity, I spent about 2 hours walking back & forth a few hippie arts booths trying to choose a necklace to buy, and I still couldn't choose one, so I didn't get any. But then I saw a wristband that I kinda liked, so I bought that instead, and decided to buy another wristband I liked slightly, and I've been wearing them for the past week, and quickly realised I like one of them but not the other.
As lame as this story is, it's the start of me finding my identity! :-D
And now I've started climbing a tree each morning, cos that's one thing I know each day I can enjoy :-)
 
Getting all symptomatic again has meant that ALL those lives dogpiled one on top of each other. Pieces from this life here, that life there...
I relate to this. ^^ Who was I ?, who am I now, who am I supposed to be? Do parts of what I think, or used to, not even matter anymore? Are they relevant? Do I even care?
Abusive environments teach us to live outside in rather than inside out.
Agree with this ^^. What is the safest choice?

I don't think in terms of wants, just needs, or obligations, or what's required from the outside-in. When I'm left to choose what I want, I don't or can't identify what it would be. Like, pick something to eat. Wants are a luxury I don't particularly identify with, or have the option of.
 
Slight change to my comment about Peterson. He was actually right on his point but it is not the only way...that was what I was trying to say rather than one or the other is right. There are people who saw the evil and refuse to acknowledge teh evil impacted this much at all and took their good parts and changed their identity and they die trying to deny and deny and those who become like the abuser and continue traumatizing others - many variations after trauma as obvious as we all know.

I do see the PTSD as looking at evil, but in my case, the ideal self hates the abuse so much, that I went the other route...honest to a fault and so transparant.....I want to please and everyone get along (yeah...when I say this aloud...I want to puke) because in the real world, there are too many predators and I'm easy prey.

Hi, yes I hear this. My interests are often borrowed from the people around me rather than welling up from within. Yoga stuff is the only thing I sought independently. So I take real comfort in moving toward those things, because I know it is just coming from me.

Abusive environments teach us to live outside in rather than inside out.

I try to have opinions based on my values but unfortunately people close to me tell me that I'm really capricious and inconsistent despite my best efforts. I don't have a stable identity exactly but in a yoga path you're supposed to be kind of melding with a higher version of yourself anyway so I take advantage of that.

I remember this movie the Runaway Bride where she always took on her partner's preferences and didn't know what her own were so in the part of the movie where the main character grows, she started trying to figure things out with trial and error. They showed this mostly with eggs. She cooked eggs about every way you can cook eggs ans tried them all to see what she enjoyed.

I think it's ok to not have strong opinions about everything. I'm trying to work on living more from the inside out honoring my core self as the person whose approval matters the most because I am aligning with that as a person that wants my best interest and wants to help me be by best self in the world which makes me better for others but that is like way down the road eventually a goal because I have to learn to listen to myself better first.

Hope that helps? You aren't alone.

(This is also more of a complex PTSD with a dash of dissociation answer.)

@HealingMama CPTSD here....Sometimes I feel like Gumby.....I bend any which way to fit in.....and don't always stand confident with who I am........I'm most comfortable with an idealized sense of self-it has a "nicer" view of how reality should be.....then the hammer drops, the glass shatters, and I'm back to reality which has often really sucked. Think there's anyway to make your own ideal reality?
 
I think you said "I want to know what I'm doing is right for me, or is me, right or wrong."

Starting with having repressed memories yes, I think I know how this feels and no, I don't know how to do it.

Mostly right now I try to not feel like I'm ugly like phuck you, because I'm in the verge of that a lot.

Also trying not to say anything I'd I can help it lol.
I do know how it feels though it's frustrating.
 
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