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Interesting Text Exchange
- Post starter desiderata310
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- #50
desiderata310
VIP Member
Right or wrong, I sent this to my therapist.
Yes, I do read and take heed to advice
If this napalms the relationship, so be it. I've tried very hard to be professional in this email.
I certainly feel better.
I had to leave out a lot of what really hurts about his communication because I couldn't divorce it from my f*cking feelings.
The most I could say about it was that it was punitive.
I've been thinking about how best to address the communication which happened yesterday. It's obvious that your response and decisions were punitive.
I would like to clarify from my perspective what has and has not happened and why I made the decisions that I have concerning going back to the NP to get more sleeping pills.
Last Tuesday you rightly chastised me for not taking care of getting more sleeping pills. Realizing that I would need to go back to the nurse practitioner(and that I was officially out of medication) I quickly shot you an email asking you to pave the way so that I could go back.The reason for this is very simple: by going back this next time I was going back on what I had told the NP and information that was written in my file. I had told him that you were arranging for me to see a psychiatrist for medication. If I were to go back without you initially contacting the NP or some sort of referral prior to my arrival, I would look like a junkie. Or at least a liar. I did the best I could during the week and went back to see you on Friday.
On Friday I wasn't doing well really because of the dog situation but I was sleeping well for me. You were irritated nonetheless that I had not gone back to the doctor for sleeping medication. In someways rightly so and others not so as I had asked that you please first contact the NP.
When we parted ways on Friday you were in the midst of calling the doctor's office for me which I greatly appreciated.later that afternoon you texted me saying that you were still waiting on a response from the doctor. My response to you at that point was 'I'm sitting on my hands'. And I was. I tried mightily to convince myself to go back without your assistance and realized that that was really more than I could make myself do and it would be fruitless.
Friday evening I realized I still had a stash of muscle relaxers so I've began taking those (which is actually the reason you saw me out running in the middle of the day Sunday instead of early morning.) even though they leave me extraordinarily groggy.
I apologize that you've had to pick up any pieces. I'm sorry that I've had any pieces to be picked up. One thing I will be certain of in the future is if I am unstable I will not be coming to therapy or I will leave therapy until such time that I feel I am not so unstable as to need pieces picked up.
I could've very much used the session today. There are many things, many triggers that I worked through which happened this past weekend that you would've actually been very proud of me about but were still very upsetting none-the-less.
If the main objective of this Friday's session is to continue this punitive action and to chastise me further let's agree not to meet.
Since yesterday It has been called my attention that perhaps the best thing for me to do is to actually go see a psychiatrist and get on medication specifically for sleeping: an action which you had said you didn't want me to do and for that reason I had previously not pursued. Since that seems to be the course of action I should be taking, I will do that. If you have someone to recommend I will go to them. If not I'll find somebody on my own. You did mention at one point that there was only one in town you would recommend. If possible I would like to know who that is.
If that indeed was the course of action you would have preferred me to take I would have preferred that you have conveyed that instead of insisting that I must go back to a NP. For all my research, I still don't fully understand the titles surrounding this line of work. In my mind, psychiatrist/ psychologist and therapist can all be used interchangeably. I have since learned they all mean different things.
So far in this email I have left emotion out of the equation, with the exception of my extraordinary embarrassment at the thought of being viewed of as a junkie or a liar.
There's a lot I want to say about feeling abandoned. I do not feel the liberty to discuss that with you.
I am acutely aware that I am a difficult client at best. At this point I'll leave the decision to continue or to discontinue therapy in your court.
Yes, I do read and take heed to advice
If this napalms the relationship, so be it. I've tried very hard to be professional in this email.
I certainly feel better.
I had to leave out a lot of what really hurts about his communication because I couldn't divorce it from my f*cking feelings.
The most I could say about it was that it was punitive.
I've been thinking about how best to address the communication which happened yesterday. It's obvious that your response and decisions were punitive.
I would like to clarify from my perspective what has and has not happened and why I made the decisions that I have concerning going back to the NP to get more sleeping pills.
Last Tuesday you rightly chastised me for not taking care of getting more sleeping pills. Realizing that I would need to go back to the nurse practitioner(and that I was officially out of medication) I quickly shot you an email asking you to pave the way so that I could go back.The reason for this is very simple: by going back this next time I was going back on what I had told the NP and information that was written in my file. I had told him that you were arranging for me to see a psychiatrist for medication. If I were to go back without you initially contacting the NP or some sort of referral prior to my arrival, I would look like a junkie. Or at least a liar. I did the best I could during the week and went back to see you on Friday.
On Friday I wasn't doing well really because of the dog situation but I was sleeping well for me. You were irritated nonetheless that I had not gone back to the doctor for sleeping medication. In someways rightly so and others not so as I had asked that you please first contact the NP.
When we parted ways on Friday you were in the midst of calling the doctor's office for me which I greatly appreciated.later that afternoon you texted me saying that you were still waiting on a response from the doctor. My response to you at that point was 'I'm sitting on my hands'. And I was. I tried mightily to convince myself to go back without your assistance and realized that that was really more than I could make myself do and it would be fruitless.
Friday evening I realized I still had a stash of muscle relaxers so I've began taking those (which is actually the reason you saw me out running in the middle of the day Sunday instead of early morning.) even though they leave me extraordinarily groggy.
I apologize that you've had to pick up any pieces. I'm sorry that I've had any pieces to be picked up. One thing I will be certain of in the future is if I am unstable I will not be coming to therapy or I will leave therapy until such time that I feel I am not so unstable as to need pieces picked up.
I could've very much used the session today. There are many things, many triggers that I worked through which happened this past weekend that you would've actually been very proud of me about but were still very upsetting none-the-less.
If the main objective of this Friday's session is to continue this punitive action and to chastise me further let's agree not to meet.
Since yesterday It has been called my attention that perhaps the best thing for me to do is to actually go see a psychiatrist and get on medication specifically for sleeping: an action which you had said you didn't want me to do and for that reason I had previously not pursued. Since that seems to be the course of action I should be taking, I will do that. If you have someone to recommend I will go to them. If not I'll find somebody on my own. You did mention at one point that there was only one in town you would recommend. If possible I would like to know who that is.
If that indeed was the course of action you would have preferred me to take I would have preferred that you have conveyed that instead of insisting that I must go back to a NP. For all my research, I still don't fully understand the titles surrounding this line of work. In my mind, psychiatrist/ psychologist and therapist can all be used interchangeably. I have since learned they all mean different things.
So far in this email I have left emotion out of the equation, with the exception of my extraordinary embarrassment at the thought of being viewed of as a junkie or a liar.
There's a lot I want to say about feeling abandoned. I do not feel the liberty to discuss that with you.
I am acutely aware that I am a difficult client at best. At this point I'll leave the decision to continue or to discontinue therapy in your court.
I'm proud of you for being brave, Desi, and speaking your truth to him, no matter what happens. Emotions, rationality, feelings, the whole bag is complicated and complex. None of us can condemn your actions since we are not inside your experience. I think you did well in not being bitter or hateful, and yet you indicated hurt feelings in a rational manner. I think you were quite professional.
I also think you addressed what you needed to address and made it clear to him where you need to know where he stands. I think it's well-written and very clear. I also think it's not crazy or something that he can pass off--it demands a well-thought, clear response, and if he cannot do that, or if he refuses to, or if he descends into emotional verbiage after you've remained professional, I think you'll have a clear indication of the current health of the therapeutic (gosh, that took me like 6 tries to get the right spelling of that word!) alliance given both parties' feelings. I hope that it works out well, and that he gives you a calm, honoring response.
Hugs if you wish them!
I also think you addressed what you needed to address and made it clear to him where you need to know where he stands. I think it's well-written and very clear. I also think it's not crazy or something that he can pass off--it demands a well-thought, clear response, and if he cannot do that, or if he refuses to, or if he descends into emotional verbiage after you've remained professional, I think you'll have a clear indication of the current health of the therapeutic (gosh, that took me like 6 tries to get the right spelling of that word!) alliance given both parties' feelings. I hope that it works out well, and that he gives you a calm, honoring response.
Hugs if you wish them!
- Post starter
- #52
desiderata310
VIP Member
@Noah you should see me trying to spell psychatrist. I finally resorted to saying it into Siri and having her spell it.
LAWD.
I don't know. It had to be said. I wasn't going to go back on Friday with that hanging over my head and knowing that I am going to be a ball of blubbering goo in a matter of moments upon walking in the door.
I have a plan for when I go in which involves me being ready and willing to get up and simply leave. Something I've never done in situations where I feel threatened or overwhelmed. Hopefully I can stick to it.
I really hate feeling like I am going into battle with my therapist but there it is.
LAWD.
I don't know. It had to be said. I wasn't going to go back on Friday with that hanging over my head and knowing that I am going to be a ball of blubbering goo in a matter of moments upon walking in the door.
I have a plan for when I go in which involves me being ready and willing to get up and simply leave. Something I've never done in situations where I feel threatened or overwhelmed. Hopefully I can stick to it.
I really hate feeling like I am going into battle with my therapist but there it is.
scout86
VIP Member
That sounds to me like it should do the job. Good luck on Fri!
I am glad you said what you needed to say @desiderata310 .'
I think perception or perspective means a lot, or potentially affects how any 2 people communicate together. I don't think he means you any harm, or why would he have helped so much? But that is separate from whether someone is honest, or can be trusted or believed (What have they said & done in the past? Are they true to their word? What do *all* of their actions say? Have they changed? What do you see & hear? Are they honest?) , & any other number of factors (realities).
You have a right to how you feel also & you have a right to choose.
Best wishes friday.
I think perception or perspective means a lot, or potentially affects how any 2 people communicate together. I don't think he means you any harm, or why would he have helped so much? But that is separate from whether someone is honest, or can be trusted or believed (What have they said & done in the past? Are they true to their word? What do *all* of their actions say? Have they changed? What do you see & hear? Are they honest?) , & any other number of factors (realities).
You have a right to how you feel also & you have a right to choose.
Best wishes friday.
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Desi, @desiderata310 , could/ should I post something here that isn't necessarily the most popular opinion? :locktopic::nailbiting: I know you have plenty to deal with without 'adding another thought'. (And opinions are just that- like asses, everyone has one- though some are formed better than others. ;) :) )
- Post starter
- #57
desiderata310
VIP Member
Last edited:
((((((( @desiderata310 ))))))))
(Just saying for myself only), there's only one thing lacking on this forum, & that's the voices of many people who don't have ptsd. We are able to understand & relate to each other, & the things we feel & conclusions we draw or are tempted to draw & the fears & agonies we face are wholly understandable (& even forgivable)- within the context of ptsd.
But people without it (your T included) are not only human of course, but unlike 'us' many people without ptsd don't see things as we do, or feel as we do- they argue, confront, fight, misunderstand, disappoint, etc & become reconciled & all take it in stride in a 'regular' way on most given days. They don't make a big deal out of it. I DO realize your T (as a T) knows that's not how someone with ptsd would feel, but he's treating you more 'normally'. From what you have said he has been unconventional, & still is. (I don't think it's about attitude, I mean more so 'deciding' what size of deal to make out of it, realizing without ptsd it would be less. And no sleep etc).
Also, our thoughts (with ptsd) aren't the best or 'average'. For example, suicidality. It's not 'average' or even the best thinking. I think to myself I need to 'stop', simply because if I had non-ptsd thoughts I'd be healed (which I wish for). That is, notwithtatnding I have to do the best I can, but if my thoughts or perspective or conclusions were always so accurate I wouldn't have ptsd.
Can you take in the whole picture? (I myself under stress can't remember much, let alone most memories).
:hug:
(Just saying for myself only), there's only one thing lacking on this forum, & that's the voices of many people who don't have ptsd. We are able to understand & relate to each other, & the things we feel & conclusions we draw or are tempted to draw & the fears & agonies we face are wholly understandable (& even forgivable)- within the context of ptsd.
But people without it (your T included) are not only human of course, but unlike 'us' many people without ptsd don't see things as we do, or feel as we do- they argue, confront, fight, misunderstand, disappoint, etc & become reconciled & all take it in stride in a 'regular' way on most given days. They don't make a big deal out of it. I DO realize your T (as a T) knows that's not how someone with ptsd would feel, but he's treating you more 'normally'. From what you have said he has been unconventional, & still is. (I don't think it's about attitude, I mean more so 'deciding' what size of deal to make out of it, realizing without ptsd it would be less. And no sleep etc).
Also, our thoughts (with ptsd) aren't the best or 'average'. For example, suicidality. It's not 'average' or even the best thinking. I think to myself I need to 'stop', simply because if I had non-ptsd thoughts I'd be healed (which I wish for). That is, notwithtatnding I have to do the best I can, but if my thoughts or perspective or conclusions were always so accurate I wouldn't have ptsd.
Can you take in the whole picture? (I myself under stress can't remember much, let alone most memories).
:hug:
- Post starter
- #59
desiderata310
VIP Member
I will just be honest and say no. I can't take in the whole picture. The whole picture can be overwhelming and is filled with things that I have not mentioned here and are questionable. Those questionable things I have tried to view in a good light but they make me very very anxious about how much I can trust him. I have been trying, in spite of those things, to view it all in a positive light but this one feels like the end of the world. It really does. I've not spoken about it to anyone till now but my desire to cut and my suicidal thinking is WAY up.
The other thing I have not mentioned in all of this is the 'it just kinda figures' thinking. Pretty much all my life, if something started going well, it wasn't long before it all went to shit.
The dog is an example. It seems he has washed out. He attacked a dog recently, and despite everything we expected and had seen to the contrary, he attacked my cat on Saturday.
The stress over my job... I keep waiting to get fired. I'm having trouble showing up, getting the work done, etc.
I'm bracing for the other shoe to fall.
I'm depressed. Not my low level of frustrating depression that I've had for a while. It's deep, hard to move, everything hurts depression. I've been trying to ignore it and I can't.I've been trying to do things that make me feel better but they leave me feeling like a failure. I went running over the weekend. I felt so defeated because I just couldn't seem to keep going.
I know it's been at the root of a lot of what's happened and my behavior over the last week. The whole thing with the bad reaction to sleeping meds several weeks ago has just taken me and thrown me on the ground and kinda kept me pinned there.
I tried to say all of that to my therapist last week. He wasn't hearing me and I was having trouble communicating.
It's tons of little things, little molehills, that taken as a whole, amount to a mountain.
What I know right now, is that even after explaining myself as clearly as possible with as little emotion as possible I feel less like I can go back tomorrow than I did when I first read that text from him. I feel that way because I don't feel that I can be emotional around him now. I don't have the energy to play like I'm NOT depressed. I showed it in all its ugliness last week. It made him angry. (he admitted he was angry)
I'm shaking as I write this. I've been crying off and on all day and I'm sitting here at my desk during work at lunch trying to put on a brave face but it hurts to even breathe, let alone smile. And I'm still fighting. I'm still here. I haven't cut yet today.
I really don't want to go tomorrow. I really don't know for certain that we are even meeting tomorrow. Not really.
The other thing I have not mentioned in all of this is the 'it just kinda figures' thinking. Pretty much all my life, if something started going well, it wasn't long before it all went to shit.
The dog is an example. It seems he has washed out. He attacked a dog recently, and despite everything we expected and had seen to the contrary, he attacked my cat on Saturday.
The stress over my job... I keep waiting to get fired. I'm having trouble showing up, getting the work done, etc.
I'm bracing for the other shoe to fall.
I'm depressed. Not my low level of frustrating depression that I've had for a while. It's deep, hard to move, everything hurts depression. I've been trying to ignore it and I can't.I've been trying to do things that make me feel better but they leave me feeling like a failure. I went running over the weekend. I felt so defeated because I just couldn't seem to keep going.
I know it's been at the root of a lot of what's happened and my behavior over the last week. The whole thing with the bad reaction to sleeping meds several weeks ago has just taken me and thrown me on the ground and kinda kept me pinned there.
I tried to say all of that to my therapist last week. He wasn't hearing me and I was having trouble communicating.
It's tons of little things, little molehills, that taken as a whole, amount to a mountain.
What I know right now, is that even after explaining myself as clearly as possible with as little emotion as possible I feel less like I can go back tomorrow than I did when I first read that text from him. I feel that way because I don't feel that I can be emotional around him now. I don't have the energy to play like I'm NOT depressed. I showed it in all its ugliness last week. It made him angry. (he admitted he was angry)
I'm shaking as I write this. I've been crying off and on all day and I'm sitting here at my desk during work at lunch trying to put on a brave face but it hurts to even breathe, let alone smile. And I'm still fighting. I'm still here. I haven't cut yet today.
I really don't want to go tomorrow. I really don't know for certain that we are even meeting tomorrow. Not really.
joeylittle
Sponsor
Hey, @desiderata310 - if you are thinking you are at the end of the road with this therapist - something you might try is emailing him also your post, above.
Reason for suggestion: I think it's worth giving the therapeutic relationship every possible shot at surviving conflict, because it's the one we can oddly be the most completely honest in with very little real, permanent consequence.
The impression I get of your therapist (having only known him thru your posts) is that he is well-meaning almost to a fault. I think the therapy you've done with him has seemed to do you some good.
So, if you've gotten from A to J with him, and if this recent breach has made getting to K seem impossible - is there anything lost in laying your cards on the table? If the relationship can mend, it's to the good, because you've built history with this one. But if it can't, it can't.
I guess where I'm coming from is that the post you wrote to @sun seeker is very direct, clear, self-aware, and honest. Whereas the email you sent him was also very angry - and didn't make all the points you are making in the post above.
Take it for what it's worth. I'm probably influenced by having had a "we are either getting through this or I'm leaving" kind of event with my therapist not too long ago, and I communicated way way better after I realized that it didn't matter anymore if I overstepped my own version of boundaries, because if the convo failed I was leaving.
Reason for suggestion: I think it's worth giving the therapeutic relationship every possible shot at surviving conflict, because it's the one we can oddly be the most completely honest in with very little real, permanent consequence.
The impression I get of your therapist (having only known him thru your posts) is that he is well-meaning almost to a fault. I think the therapy you've done with him has seemed to do you some good.
So, if you've gotten from A to J with him, and if this recent breach has made getting to K seem impossible - is there anything lost in laying your cards on the table? If the relationship can mend, it's to the good, because you've built history with this one. But if it can't, it can't.
I guess where I'm coming from is that the post you wrote to @sun seeker is very direct, clear, self-aware, and honest. Whereas the email you sent him was also very angry - and didn't make all the points you are making in the post above.
Take it for what it's worth. I'm probably influenced by having had a "we are either getting through this or I'm leaving" kind of event with my therapist not too long ago, and I communicated way way better after I realized that it didn't matter anymore if I overstepped my own version of boundaries, because if the convo failed I was leaving.
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