Is Taking Antidepressants Equivalent To Taking Illicit Drugs?

[J_trustno1]

Before go into depth of this question, I would like to state that his question is not being asked to mock or humiliate those who have taken drugs in the past to overcome their fears or past!

Here I begin!

Background:
I mean the only difference is that they are prescribed while drugs are not? Illicit drugs are self-medicating! I am not writing for or against these drugs or prescribed medicine but I wanted to know views of other people. This question has been running in my head for past few days, weeks and years because I went on this whole antidepressant prescribed business when I was 16.

The first antidepressant I was introduced was Proxetine (20 mg). It worked wonders for me for 11 years of being on and off it. I never took counseling or any of that because I was told "sharing family secrets is NOT right !!!". Therefore everything was hidden inside.

My PTSD kicked in 2013 but I wasn't given any medication until early 2014 when my current Doctor felt I needed some help! Thankfully!!! Miracle of antidepressants!!! Yay! However, 20 mg of Proxetine wasn't enough! My doctor increased the dose to 40 mg but that did F**kall!

Then in June 2014, I started this new wonder antidepressant called "Venlafaxine", it was started off with 37.5mg and was slowly built up to 75mg. I stayed on 75 mg for 1 month then the doctor tried increasing the dose to 150 mg, thinking it'll HELP me even more! Guess what??? I started having suicidal ideation!!! So I went back to 75 mg again and life was better again. The doctor decided to send me in for psychotherapy. The psychotherapist also connected me with the psychiatrist.

The psychiatrist did realise that increased dose of venlafaxine was not good for me but he gave me seroquel which he told me to take only at 7.5 mg (half a tablet of 15mg). That didn't help instead made me groggy, gave me headaches and nausea the next day. I only took it for 3-4 days in total in two weeks but gave up. Then the psychiatrist tried another wonder drug called Mirtazapine! Woohooo!!! a NEW name and it must be great!!! I started off at half a pill of it, it made me put on 3.5 kg within 6 days! YUP!!! 3.5 kg!!!!! I had to tell the doctor that it was making me crave for sugar and carbs and causing weight gain so he reduced the dose to even 1/4 of the pill on 6th day of it. It made me very happy for the first 7-10 but soon I started having nightmares, I was seeing violent terrorist suicidal bombs, conspiracy theories of scientists/doctors trying to mass eliminate population with infecting people with cancer cells! Yup! I was seeing all that in nightmares and on 18th day, I stopped it. I was seeing this stuff in front of my open eyes, and I was fearing those things happening to me!!!

Next, I back to venlafaxine own it's own and no more additional pills!! Thank GOD!

My anxiety was up again in March 2015, so my doctor told me to increase venlafaxine to 2 pills a day (i.e. 150 mg in total). I tried it again, my suicidal ideation began again. So back to 1 pill a day again. My anxiety started again in mid-Sept 2015 due to loss of job and fear of future, that I lost my sleep. My doctor was telling me to increase the dose to 150 mg but I decided to take 112.5 (1.5 pills) a day. This only helped me with sleep but caused me to be tired and sleepy despite getting 10-12 hrs of sleep per day! I decided to go back to 75 mg again this time without asking the doctor because I can't deal with increased dose!

I am finally in counseling and it's been a year. I have come out of few of my fears but still have a lot to deal with. I am still negative towards myself and still working on being my friend than my enemy!

Questions:

Here are the questions that arise in my mind after 12 years of antidepressant exposure!
1. I feel I am addicted to those pills since they are just stuck with me since I was 16 till now but on and off! How am I different to any drugiee out there?
2. I wonder if I will ever get rid of these pills?
3. I wonder if I am actually normal?? I mean normal people don't rely on these pills they just deal with life!
4. What is actually normal in this world?? We see those exaggerated news! See those poor refugee kids coming from countries where people are blowing each other off with bombs! Seeing human trafficking, seeing animal cruelty, seeing pedophiles living in peace while kids of abuse suffering every second of their life because of unhealed wounds, child abuse, child labor! So what f*ckING is normal in this world?? Who is normal??? I don't think I am normal, I see myself as a drug addict the only difference here is I'm getting prescribed ones!

I would love to hear your responses, thanks for reading this long post.

 

[Justmehere]

Interesting comparison and post.

Here's how I see it:

Is someone who diabetic a drug addict because they take insulin? They need it, once they start using t they can't ever really stop (unless the diabetes gets better - and that's only applicable for some cases where diabetes can go back into remissions through excerise and food changes. Others, like type 1 diabetics, need insulin their whole lives so their bodies can function better.

Are they like illicit drug users like heroin addicts?

No.

For many people, taking psychiatric medications is like that. They need it to function better. (Normal is just a setting in a washing machine.) I take one medication that I probably need I this way.

For some people, they are over prescribed medications or over rely on them. I have been over prescribed medications on a handful of occasions myself.

For others, they can become addicted to drugs like benzodiazepines. I almost got hooked on klonopin myself.

Antidepressants are rarely addictive. There can be rebound depression and withdrawal effects. It can also be that the underlying condition is now breaking through, just like if someone who was diabetic suddenly stopped taking insulin, or someone with seizures who suddenly stopped taking anti-epileptic medications.

All medications, prescribed or illegal, are potentially dangerous. Self medicating is usually used as a term to describe using a dug to escape. Prescription psych medications sometimes help people face their problems better, and to make therpay more effective. Illicit drugs usually make recovering from trauma much harder.

Those are a few of my random thoughts...

 

[Marie-Lou]

Hi Jass.T,

I will try to answer your questions because I know psychotropic drugs quite well. Maybe it will help you.

1.You are not addicted to those pills, you are just afraid to live without them. It is good that your are finally in psychotherapy, hopefully with someone who is an expert and caring, because psychotropic cannot heal us; they only dampen anxiety so we can function and deal with our intrapsychic problems to a resolution. Paroxetine can work wonders because it is both an antidepressant and an anioloytic, but any SSRI will provoke paradoxical reactions if it is increased too much. Ideally, one stick to a relatively low dose and attends to issues at a psychological level.

2. Yes you can get rid of these pills, but it will take years as long as you continue to foster anxiety within yourself beyond your knowledge.

3. What is normal? Half of the US population is on these pills.
4. This world is partly mad, but our sanity depends on what we focus on. People who watch the news are more anxious and depressed than those who do not. Play solitaire at night, go for a walk with your dog, or read a classic novel, but do not watch the news. These are all lies anyway designed to treat us as retarded 12 year olds and make us feel anxious and angry. Your nightmares or pseudo-hallucinations are a replica of what you watch on the news, in movies, or in your subsequent imaginings.

There is loving kindness in this world. Look for it! In some people, in some animals, in plants, in the Earth, in the fresh food you prepare, etc.

A drug addict uses pills giving buzzes like crack or most benzodiazepines. SSRI do not give a buzz, a high; they provide some relief from anxiety and depression. But SSRI cannot change we trust others, view ourselves and enter in a relationship. Only human experiences can do this.

I understand your pangs of despair and desperation toward the world and yourself. Yet, they are feelings, not reality. I have known may who have gone beyond the state you are in. Keep on trying. Keep on looking for love and kindness. Gain self-understanding and self-caring. Again, you are not addict, you are suffering.

 

[Neverthesame]

1. I feel I am addicted to those pills since they are just stuck with me since I was 16 till now but on and off! How am I different to any drugiee out there?

Sort of. You may very well have a dependency on the medications you have recently (within 1 year, that's being very generous).

The primary difference between you and say, a methamphetamine addict. Is that you are looking for a feeling of normality. Not a boost, or a altered state to lose your sorrows in. You want to feel like everyone who you feel is clean and sober.

That's makes it different from someone who is using drugs for a high. While eventually they will be taking their drug more to avoid the withdrawal symptoms, they still get stoned. They are looking for an escape, not an anchor.

2. I wonder if I will ever get rid of these pills?

Sure, why not?
Though there is nothing wrong with using medication, if it is helping you.

Nor are you wrong with wanting off of them. It's a personal choice.

3. I wonder if I am actually normal?? I mean normal people don't rely on these pills they just deal with life!

It actually can work both ways.

I have PTSD, and I suffer for it. I don't currently take any antidepressant or antipsycotic medication.

I don't know a specific example to give you, but I have absolutely no doubt that there are people who currently take medication that they really don't need, for psychological conditions that they don't have. That is just people being people.

4. What is actually normal in this world?? We see those exaggerated news! See those poor refugee kids coming from countries where people are blowing each other off with bombs! Seeing human trafficking, seeing animal cruelty, seeing pedophiles living in peace while kids of abuse suffering every second of their life because of unhealed wounds, child abuse, child labor! So what f*ckING is normal in this world?? Who is normal??? I don't think I am normal, I see myself as a drug addict the only difference here is I'm getting prescribed ones!

No one is really normal, doesn't exist. We use positive examples of people we see in society to emulate, because it makes sense that is likely what is best for our species as a whole. To grow and advance. It's pretty bloody unlikely that anyone actually fits the mould of "healthy" without any deviations.

As for feeling like a prescription dope fiend. Somehow I don't think so.

There is a term I learned when I was an EMT.
Prescription Chaser.
It's used to describe the people who phone the local emergency services for silly things like sprained ankles, headaches, hangnails (I actually responded to a hangnail call once, grr :mad:)
They then go to hospital, where they whine and bitch, untill they get a prescription for the narcotic pain meds or tranquilizers they want, then do it all again when they run out.

You also need to bear in mind that there are different kinds of medications some with abuse potential, some without. Also some of the more popular illicit recreational drugs, used to be medication at one time. Heroin for example, was developed to treat people who were addicted to morphine. Methadrine was used to help people lose weight.

Ketamine (known as Special K) Is still used for a tranquilizer for animals, as well as in pediatrics for its amnesiatic properties. Makes it ideal for setting broken or dislocated joints in small children. It's quite an interesting thing to see. The child is put into a heavily sedated state, then the orthopaedic specialist sets the joint, the child will make a fair amount of fuss as it does hurt alot. But they will not remember any of it In a few hours. Much safer than using a general aenesthetic.

Sorry, got distracted.

The other thing I wanted to mention is the medications which are legal but have abuse potential. Namely, benzodiazepines (Valium, Librium, Xanax, ect, ect) These drugs can turn you into a drug addict. Just as much as heroin or cocaine. There is also the aenelgesic drugs such as, Codiene, Oxycontin, plus the myriad of other opium based narcotics. These also will cause severe addiction if misused.

I don't personally think you need to worry about being an addict, doesn't sound like you are taking anything with real abuse potential. If you try overdosing on an antidepressant, you won't get "high". It's more likely to make you miserable for a day or so.

Though I am somewhat perturbed by your doctor's desire to up your dosage of your current prescription, despite your repeated reports of suicidal ideation. That is not something they should be playing around with.

This is just my personal opinion, but I think it is a good thing for you to not take the Venlaxafine in such a high dose, if it makes you feel like harming yourself. Though I do think that you should inform your doctor that you have lowered your dose, to keep them informed.

Remember, you never have to take anything a doctor prescribes you if it makes you feel uncomfortable, or worse.

Ultimately the doctor is a human being, capable of making mistakes. But keep them up to date with what you are taking. That makes it easier on you and your doctor for working out different drugs and dosages, if you both know what you are actually taking.

 

[Aylion]

Interesting comparison and post.
Is someone who diabetic a drug addict because they take insulin? They need it, once they start using t they can't ever really stop (unless the diabetes gets better - and that's only applicable for some cases where diabetes can go back into remissions through excerise and food changes. Others, like type 1 diabetics, need insulin their whole lives so their bodies can function better.

I disagree with that statement; mental health is far more complicated than physical health and poorly understooden,
the comparison between a diabetic taking his insuline and a depressed/anxious/ptsd patient taking ssri is very very misleading and unaccurate.

Why a ssri works for some depressed patients and not for others?, why sometimes it works once but does not work a second time in the same person?, why do some people get withdrawal symptoms after stopping ssri and some don't? Why do some people get persistent side effects even after stopping and some don't? Nobody knows.
The brain is very very complex, much more than the body, and comparing mental health with physical health, and thus mental medication with physical medications is very unaccurate, because it is not known how exactly antidepressants work. The serotonin imbalance theory is just a theory and actually it has been proven to be false nowadays

 

[joeylittle]

The brain IS the body. It's part of the body. I agree, @Aylion, that it is far more complex than the simple phrase 'seratonin imbalance', but the real difference between mood disorders and diabetes is knowledge. How to measure and correct insulin response is relatively well-understood. They don't know yet how to properly measure chemical changes in the brain. But that doesn't mean they can't get there.

Hopefully soon.

 

[Justmehere]

I did not mean to imply that psychotropic medication is as simple as diabetes. I agree that this is an erroneous comparison. I explained my thoughts perhaps quite badly. I meant to compare the use of medication for diabetes and other medical conditions not being like illicit drug use, with the use of psych medications as prescribed not being like illicit drug use. They are both done with varying levels of knowledge, but prescribed for the same intent: to function and engage life more, not escape it.

I would also say that not all medical conditions are that well understood, and many questions remain, similar to psychological conditions. Take epilepsy. Or chemo. Or autoimmune diseases. I have been treated with medications for all three of those conditions. Often the doctors had educated guesses as to how the medications worked but did not really know for sure. There is controversy in the treatment for all of those conditions as well.

PTSD is also a condition that is not isolated to the brain alone, but that the brain and body are very much connected and both involved in PTSD.

But does making the choice to undergo chemotherapy, immunotherapy or to take anti-seizure medications make me or others like illicit drug users? No. I would say that the same is true with PTSD. I'm not saying PTSD is like those conditions, but that using medications to try to reduce symptoms of PTSD is no more like illicit drug use than for those other conditions.

Trying antidepressants (with much caution and awareness of what is known and unknown) is very different than someone who goes out and uses heroin without any medical supervision to escape pain and get high.

 

[Aylion]

yeah, of course illicit drugs are far more dangerous than antidepressants, but that does not mean that antidepressants are like little kitties, they should be used with caution too, and when used with caution they can be very helpful for some people.

 

[Ocean5]

more dangerous than antidepressants, but that does not mean that antidepressants are like little kitties, they should be used with caution too.

Yea my new p-doc says I've "tried too many" in past 2 years. Sorry you where put on at such a young age. I can't imagine!

He thinks once stable enough to go into psychotherapy since medicine is obviousness not helping me enough.

Personally just not having to clean sink from vomiting would help me, or sleeping so much....

 

[Friday]

yeah, of course illicit drugs are far more dangerous than antidepressants, but that does not mean that antidepressants are like little kitties...

LOL... Nearly all, if not all damn close, medications are dangerous!

- Insulin when you don't need it or at the wrong dose? Will kill you.
- Digitalis when you don't need it or at the wrong dose? Or if drinking "heart healthy tea" & other "natural" remedies (which contain... Wait for it... Digitalis!) Will kill you.
- Coumadin when you don't need it or at the wrong dose? Will kill you.

Whether you die by seizure, heart attack, or massive internal bleeding? Depends on the med. These 3 (and hundreds of others) are all life saving medications. And they're all very dangerous. Which is why they're by Rx only.

In their purest forms (pharmaceutical grade), nearly every street-drug is found in use in medicine / has legitimate medical use, and are Rx only (for the same reason; they're very dangerous). They're used differently. Addicts & Abusers are chasing highs. In medicine? That's simply not the purpose of them. That is, however the purpose of street drugs. Not all street drugs have addiction potential. Most of the hallucinogens are non-habit forming for example.

OTC meds, while generally safer (which is what allows them to be OTC), still all have overdose, organ damage, and other risks associated with them. Some, in fact, far more than their heavier weight Rx counterpart. The major difference being dose size. The OTC med may need an entire bottle to cause organ damage, while the Rx 1 pill is perfectly safe, but 1.5 pills? Seizures. 2 pills? Death.

***
@Jass_T ... As you're a chemical engineer I can totally see you looking at the components of medications vs street drugs and saying "What the hell is this difference??? There's no difference!"

The difference is biology*. How our bodies & brains respond to those chemicals. Why 1 has high addiction & abuse potential and another does not. Why one has high addiction potential (has to be tapered on and off), but has virtually no abuse potential.

*Biology to include : Neuropsychology (psychology + neurochemistry), as well as Physiology... Interacting with the Chemistry, & O-chem.

To bake your noodle a bit:

Addiction / Dependence
Abuse
Use
___________________
FOUR very different things. (Not 3. As there are 2 different kinds of addiction)

There are really 2.5 subdivisions in addiction.
- Physical addiction (what happens will some meds regardless of their abuse potentiation),
- Psychological addiction (half of what you think of when you think of "addict"; even though millions of people become physically addicted without ever becoming psych addicted. Think chemo patients on pain pumps. Not every cancer survivor becomes an addict. Not even most.)
- Abuse ='the other half of what most people think of when they think of addict. Fact is, most people who abuse a substance? Don't become addicted to it. College students around the world abuse alcohol. Most, however, stop abusing it once they have to do something else aside from be drunk all the time (like be on time for work). Meanwhile hundreds of millions of people *use* addictive substances. Without abusing them, or becoming addicted to them. Again, alcohol is a good example. So are pain meds. Most people will use an addictive substance responsibly. They won't abuse it, and they won't become addicted to it.

So you've really got 4 pieces of a puzzle shifting around (addiction, dependence, abuse, use) in relation to some complex Biology... All in addition to the straight up chemistry. :)

((I hope this made sense. Will edit tommorw. Too tired tonight but don't want to lose it on accident. So hitting "post", now.))

 

[ms spock]

No!

 

[J_trustno1]

Thanks everyone for replying on this thread.

Omg wow @FridayJones !! I was actually waiting for your reply and once again you have came across as an intellect trying to challenge my thinking. Yes, I was looking at those drugs from chemical point of view and how their potency can affect individuals. Yes, you are correct how different meds affect people differently. How some people can tolerate higher dose while some can't even handle low dose. It probably has to do with our genetics, environmental factors and how we deal with issues too. You are correct that everyone deals with drugs different and people have different coping mechanisms.