Is the human species greedy, negative, ignorant, violent and destroying the planet?

[Sideways]

By the time you’re using language like this:

raping mother nature,

it’s probably safe to assume that there’s some emotional reasoning going on. And a massive oversimplification of some incredibly complex issues.

On a macro-level, the human race is behaving much like any other species plague: we’re gradually destroying the habitat we rely on to survive. That’s not just humans that do that.

Do we have these problems because we are:

90% is mindless, inconsiderate, greedy, ignorant

On a macro scale - how do you solve poverty, right now, without plastic? If you think that’s possible, learn a bit about survival in slums. Where millions of people are trying to survive.

When the Romans introduced sewer systems, they made a whole lotta people a lot healthier. Ignorance? We now have a plague of humans because we’re too good at looking after ourselves.

Macro-level naval gazing. Doesn’t sound like it’s particularly helpful for you. Which would make you pretty normal. Humanity’s issues are incredibly complicated, and when we simplfy them down to a really basic level (like ‘look how much plastic gets dumped in the ocean’) to try and make sense of it all, it’s incredibly easy to get overwhelmed and incredibly depressed.

Maybe out aside the macro stuff. Just for a moment. If you look around at the people you know, and consider them as individuals, do they still fit the description of being 90% ignorant, mindless, inconsiderate, greedy? If so? It’s absolutely time you changed the people you spend time with.

Because when you get to know people as individuals, sure, there’s some bad eggs. But probably 90% are the exact opposite of your description. They’re trying to be informed, they’re trying to be self-sufficient as far as they can and maybe even trying to help support a few loved ones along the way. They do things like stand in a queue rather than charge to the front of the line because they are trying to be considerate. Check out the number of people who spend time each week in a volunteering role, then tell me that individuals are 90% inconsiderate.

You can oversimplify this issue to the point of hopelessness. But it’s not that simple. If you believe that improving healthcare is an informed and considerate thing to do, following that to its logical conclusion you end up with an aged population that are physically capable of doing nothing but consume. That doesn’t make healthcare bad - it makes it complicated.

So focus on individuals. Individuals, when you get to know them, are overwhelmingly considerate, hard-working, well-intentioned people trying to make the most of an incredibly complicated web of inter-related issues that confront them every day, trying to make good choices that fit with their own values and resources.

90% of Individuals? Aren’t disgusting.

Here’s the kicker: you aren’t disgusting either.

 

[Abstract]

Knew I was the wrong the person! ?

 

[ILoveLife]

All the other forums are just humans being selfish, self-absorbed, trivial gits.

But even they are flawed.

A slightly less dumb and slightly less selfish monkey? :p

We tend to project a lot of our own views of ourselves onto humanity.
Given your primary socialization was abusive, is it fair to assume you identify with your abusers' traits? Even on a not-so-upfront-and-conscious-way?

This ground your stepping on, the over generalization of humanity over things some people do, is a very dangerous fundamentalistic ground. I've been there and am definitely not judging you on this.
But I did realize the more I liked myself and looked for people to have close to me that don't represent the butthole of humanity, things started to become less "they all suck" and became more "some suck" - which is, as you would agree, more accurate.

I've seen this issue across multiple people, trauma or no trauma, so I don't think it is a cognitive distortion that has to do solely with abuse. I think when we're kids, even traumatized kids, we want to see the good out there, because we're good. When we become aware of our flaws, it becomes increasingly easy to project them outside.

So, and this is not only an issue I've seen you struggle with just with this subject, but even in your own romantic relationships and other relationships - you give it all to be this idea of yourself of being an outsider of others' dysfunction, but like everyone, you have your own dysfunctions. With all the time you spent in therapy, and it was a loooooong time in therapy, it's fairly safe to say you're kinda sick of having to think about your own influence to your environment? So maybe you overcompensate in being there for others, in sheltering every sick or wounded animal, etc? It's fine, more people like you are needed in the world, but you can't change the world all by yourself, particularly can't change the world if you're looking at people with the above quotes goggles.

The dangerous ground I was talking about, I've lived it. It's in fact dangerous, we lose sight of reality and insight into ourselves.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

So, given that I realllllllly dislike argumentative styles of talking, which just turn into a "you're wrong because" thing I'm going to bow out of this thread now but I'm going to add that I think the "argument" that volunteering makes people "good" is ridiculous. So many ppl here have been CSA'ed, raped, DV'ed etc by people who do volunteer work or who are "dedicated" to their jobs or who are members of the clergy or whatever.
Picking some random positive trait and claiming that means people aren't perps or don't do major damage in other ways is naive, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

We cross-posted @Sietz
I'm going to stop reading/ replying to this.
I got helpful/ thoughtful input yesterday, which really helped me with this.
Don't have the energy for arguments and find them unhelpful to boot.

 

[ILoveLife]

I really don't see anyone arguing with you, hopefully you'll come back to this and see it with another perspective.
Fine if you don't, though :)

 

[Deleted member 47099]

It's just a style thing.
Some people love argumentative styles, I hate them.
For everything trauma and PTSD related, I personally find argumentative discussions the least-helpful approach possible.
But that's okay, it's just an incompatibility of styles.

 

[Sideways]

Picking some random positive trait and claiming that means people aren't perps or don't do major damage in other ways is naive, IMO.

At the risk of being construed as ‘argumentative’ (your OP asked a direct question, and I gave my perspective...no one here is ‘wrong’) - you’re right.

If I interpreted “John Doe does volunteering = John Doe is good”? That would be naive.

But it would also black/white thinking, and a complete distortion of reality. As much so as “John Doe did a bad thing once = John Doe is disgusting”.

Where I sit with it? Is John Doe is human. So I can take it as a given that he’s imperfect and has, at times, completely screwed up, potentially at someone else’s expense. But he’s probably done a lot of good stuff too. And he’s probably got a whole lot of really noble values that he tries to live by as much as he can.

So, John Doe isn’t necessarily disgusting if he’s done something bad. And he’s not necessarily good or virtuous just because he might occasionally do something good, like volunteering. He’s complex. Individuals aren’t good/bad, they’re complex. Few people on this earth have literally never done a single solitary virtuous act. Very few. We’re all shades of complicated.

Which means we aren’t all just ‘disgusting’. You included. Me included (even if I have persisted in a thread where I’m not really welcome!!).

I spent a long long time (years) doing the ‘Disqualifying the Positive’ thing (aka Maximising/Minimising for those following along with their list of cognitive distortions. In my case, it was turned entirely inward (I was disgusting and had a great long list to back that up) rather than outward at humanity. But it’s the same thing.

One of the things that perpetuated it was the amount of thought that went into it. I felt like the most insightful person on the planet for being able to see, and truly appreciate, all this heinous stuff that everyone else was so busy naively overlooking. The more I thought it through, the more ‘evidence’ I collected.

And, of course, none of the good stuff counted for squat.

It’s not insightful. Feels like it. A lot of thought has gone into it. But it’s just a great big monster pf a cognitive distortion. And it made me miserable.

You’ve mentioned a couple of times that maybe this is an Inner Kid thing, and that maybe you’re not sure you even want to change your perspective. Remember that Inner Kid has been through hell, and literally hasn’t learned how to think in a way that is functional and even (occasionally...cringe) positive. Our job, as Recovering Adult, is to show our Inner Kid - “The world isn’t so scary, people aren’t all so awful, there’s a different way for us to think and live...”

 

[Innordinate]

I can't read most of most of these post- huge stressor for me, but I want to share my view because I, at some point believed that humans are greedy and destroying our home- our only home. Destroying the planet? No. This planet will be here until our sun swells into a red giant billions of years from now- but the ability of our planet to sustain ourselves- yeah, we're destroying that.

I don't think, anymore that it comes from greed. I think it's ignorance, and lack of knowledge, and th overwhelming sense that "I" can't do anything, effect change etc.

But, i also think technology will catch up. In the late 30's, early 40's they predicted that by the 60's we would not produce enough food to feed our population- but technology caught up- made it easier to cultivate and harvest, transport and preserve.....

I think we are at the beginning stages of a huge paradigm shift. I think it's terrifying and exciting and instead of reading or watching things about how much plastic is in the ocean, how the ocean is taking on higher levels of CO2 and there is a rapid extinction of coral and bees are endangered etc etc i actively choose to find and read articles about the opposite. How a kid invented a way to take garbage out of the ocean, how on an in the middle east cleaned up and entire beach, how a man in indonesia planted a tree a day and re-grew an entire forest.

We are changing how we approach things, farmers are learning to plant in ways that support bees, technology is making things possible, corporations are changing-but humans are slow,
My son is part of a national environment group that fund raises to protect endangered animals- so things are changing as we become aware of the damage we've done or are doing.

 

[blackemerald1]

Hey @Sophy - I just finished reading the entire thread and to the most part I have to agree with you! :oops:

But I also found your way of describing us all as extremely funny and I laughed till I cried and am still smiling... so thanks.... I know that wasn't the purpose of your thread but really! Some amazing one-liners lol..

Cos the planet is going to the shits, whether I live or die anyway.

I agree :)

So I'm *selfishly* hanging around out of curiosity to see where the whole weird drama goes

Me too :)

who has accidentally acquired enough power to destroy a whole plan

Poor silly monkey

Yeah... silly monkeee! :hilarious:

underneath that I have always felt that way about me and everyone else

^^Me too... as a species...

Seeing if I can make peace with belonging to a bunch of confused apes.

^^ I try too :)

that don't represent the butthole of humanity,

^^:hilarious: Good one @Sietz!!

I've nothing further to add... if you find an answer please let me know @Sophy

 

[whiteraven]

I mostly think you're spot on. Changing how we see humankind? I quit trying. It's like trying to convince yourself that the color red is actually the color yellow.

 

[EveHarrington]

I think this is probably an inner kid thing.

Yep, could be.

Cuz my inner child is like Pollyanna.

I asked my Christmas-disliking boyfriend if he’d help me pick out a tree this weekend, fully expecting him to say no. He said of course he would, because he just wants to see my face light up with excitement. Because yes, Christmas IS exciting to me. Adult me knows that it’s so commercial and materialistic and STRESSFUL, but when it comes to the holidays, the little one RULES, and we wouldn’t have it any other way.