Relationship "just Words"?

[Karenf66]

I'm new, so please be gentle.

I've been married to my husband for nearly 8 years now and we have a 4 year old son. His trauma occurred in the mid-to-late 1980s when he was a young political prisoner in Turkey and was tortured. He came to Australia as a refugee in the 1990s and had some therapy then to assist with the PTSD and migration adjustment issues. By the time I met him around 2002 he was doing great - good job, good outlook - great fun. I loved him, and still love him, dearly. Since our son's birth his symptoms have re-emerged and got gradually worse - unrecognised by both of us until quite recently. I had an inkling there was something more going on than "relationship problems" but couldn't be sure. He has recently been re-diagnosed and has gone back to weekly sessions with a psychiatrist.

I'm here, amongst other reasons, for tips I can use to improve family life for us and for our son.

I see there is a fair bit of tough love here on this forum - which I appreciate - urging us not to tolerate "unacceptable" behaviour from a PTSD sufferer. But I am having so much trouble drawing that line. When he's triggered - as you all know well - he says the most awful, hurtful things. Before I had the "PTSD' label I got soooo angry with him for the disrespect I felt this showed to me.... and of course that just escalated matters to a ridiculous level that simply can't happen in a house where there is a young child! Now I am more inclined to ignore it as "just words" and try to do something nice with my son and wait for it to pass. But I am angry underneath... despite all the cheek-turning. And that anger comes out, doesn't it? eventually. Interested in thoughts about how other carers have drawn some lines their partners shouldn't cross... with or without success.

 

[sea]

I am not a carer so pardon if this is not warranted but I think most of the advice you will receive here might be the same.

Rage and anger are common symptoms of PTSD. They are hard to control symptoms. It might be like telling a person who is depressed to stop feeling sad. But, disrespect and abuse are behaviors that are chosen. How a person manifests their anger is a choice. If he is not willing to examine his anger and recognize that he is being hurtful, disrespectful, abusive and frightening that is a choice he has made that is unrelated to PTSD. You have a child who is a party to listening to all of this toxic rage which will eventually be damaging if it is allowed to continue while you turn the other cheek. Basically you said it all in your opening statement, it should not be tolerated.

Trying to be understanding and tolerating abusive and disrespectful behaviors are two different things. It does not say anything about you if you put down lines. It does not mean that you are not understanding or that you are not sympathetic to him. It means that you acknowledge that he has a choice in how he behaves and he is responsible for his choices. He is an adult so he should act like an adult. And as you also said if you continue to ignore it, your own resentment will just build up. I have a carer who, guaranteed, would kick me on my ass if I ever disrespected her in such a way, especially in front of our son.

I don't have that much advice that you are actually looking for, maybe I am intruding entirely on the thread itself, since I am not a carer. If so I will not continue. But I think it might be as simple as telling him that it is not acceptable for him to call you names and say hurtful things and display that rage and anger in front of your child. That is a simple, easy method to begin an open dialogue with him. And if he refuses to listen to that, then there must be a consequence to his action. That would be up to you.

"You cannot do that, or I will leave and not return until you realize that is not acceptable." (Or, you know, something less dramatic). Sometimes people need to be shown rather than told. Let him know that you understand he is upset and frustrated and angry but that it is not appropriate for him to keep taking it out on you in this way. Buy a punching bag or something. PTSD does not excuse anyone's choices in their behavior. It doesn't absolve people of responsibility for their behavior or actions.

Anyway hope someone else can come along and help you out more than I can. Welcome to the forum, anyway.

 

[Toria]

I think Sea has hit the nail on the head. Whether you are willing to turn the other cheek (great phrase - I'd never thought of it like that) or not, you have another person in the house to consider and it will hurt your son emotionally to see that kind of behaviour in the home and to see it being accepted.

Unfortunately I cannot give you any advice on how to set those boundaries as I am still trying to find way of setting some at home myself but there are a lot of people on here who will be able to advise I'm sure.

 

[Karenf66]

Those are very thoughtful and useful words Sea. Thank you. Great to meet you and Toria and really looking forward to talking more. My thought for tonight:

If he is not willing to examine his anger and recognize that he is being hurtful, disrespectful, abusive and frightening that is a choice he has made that is unrelated to PTSD.

 

[IvyMillie]

I must congratulate you on being such a good mom. I think it is commendable that you realize the damage this can cause your son.

I'm like the others trying to figure things out also. However, are there any ground rules you can set up for an argument. My husband and I don't name call each other--which I think is important. Another thing that is damaging is threatening with divorce. Can you leave when things begin to escalate? I know how hard it is. I try so hard to not get into a fight, but sometimes I just lose it. The thing is it never does any good. Can you say "let's talk about this at another time"? I'm fortunate on this score as while we do have arguments at least it never gets super bad, like what some go through.

Don't feel bad about your inner rage--I honestly have felt sometimes that below my surface I have alot of rage. This may sound silly, but I think it might be normal--when you live in a situation that is so difficult. It's a situation that we don't have any control over, we can't change it (for some they can modify it), often we get treated with disrespect, and we are helpless. This may sound horrible but to me it's like being in chains and handcuffed and you are immobilized. You just have to live and "take it". This forum has helped me alot. I'm learning to understand what it's like for those with PTSD--as the ones on this site communicate about it--bravo. I also feel that it has lifted a weight off of me to see that other people are like me, and enduring a difficult situation. We are enduring because we want to and that even if it's hard there is more value in enduring than in giving up.

I think you have two positive you can at least try with your husband. One is his love for his child. Two if he is going to therapy which means hopefully that he is acknowledging he has some problems. This may be the time you can try to get him to make some alterations for you. Can you go with him to therapy at some point to talk about it?

I went with my husband to therapy and was able to say that his anger really bothered me, I got to say it in the presense of someone else which made it easier. I didn't see any good results from it--but I have hope for you. Just hope that he continues acknowledging he has PTSD and that he keeps trying to get help. I hope by that he will see how he affects the people in his life.

 

[Sunshine71]

Hi Karen

Welcome to this amazing forum that has been of great support to me.

My husband too suffers from PTSD and our son is a trigger. He is just 5 so a simular age to your son.

My husband does go through very black times and the name calling is directed at my son which breaks my heart. When he gets through these black times I pick my moments carefully and we talk then about what I find acceptable.

It does help and PTSD or not we have to value ourselves and keep our children safe. They do understand more than we realise.

My husband was hurt in a hit and run car accident a year and a half ago when our son was just 3 1/2. My son started to ask questions a year later - during this past year he was a very challanging and not very nice to be around kid!!
:O(
However we had no idea that he was troubled by the accident as he was too young to really tell us then.

so you dont want your son to pick up on names etc.

I look forward to connecting with you and I do wish you all the very best Karen.

Sunshine :O)

 

[Loving4PTSD]

I'm like the others trying to figure things out also. However, are there any ground rules you can set up for an argument. My husband and I don't name call each other--which I think is important. Another thing that is damaging is threatening with divorce. Can you leave when things begin to escalate? I know how hard it is. I try so hard to not get into a fight, but sometimes I just lose it. The thing is it never does any good. Can you say "let's talk about this at another time"? I'm fortunate on this score as while we do have arguments at least it never gets super bad, like what some go through

I like this as well. We use a "code word", which has helped soooo much! Baiscally you come up with a word or a pharse that can be said when either person (or maybe even your son) feels things are getting out of control during an arguement. Everyone envolved understands that once this word is said the arguement must stop and everyone has to step back and calm down. Maybe go to seperate rooms for 15mins or for however long it takes to calm down. But then once everyone is calm you need to address the issue in a mature way, without any disrespect to each other.

I hope this helps!

 

[Karenf66]

Hi Sunshine and Ivymillie. It was lovely to read your messages this morning. A few lightbulbs are flickering since I posted yesterday.

First, on the issue of what is, and what isn't, attributable to PTSD - I think I am lucky there because I had quite a few years with my husband before the disorder re-emerged and I can still see and feel my caring, compassionate man beyond the symptoms (mostly. sometimes... :-). A couple of examples - even though he has strongly resisted concluding that he has a clinical problem he has attended his doctors appointments to date (although, of course, I had to do all the organising to make them happen!). I know he thinks he is doing that for me. I hope that will change as he gets more insight. (Is that a patronising thing to say?) He also loves to do small things, when he can, that show he cares - like making me a coffee before I get up in the morning. On the whole I am the one who keeps the house and family life running - and that does rankle if I'm honest - but small kindnesses from him goes a long way. Anyway, my point is that I think the suggestion about differentiating between him feeling angry and sad and him taking out those feelings on me and our son is something that will be useful for us. It depends, though, on me being confident that his strong emotions ARE due to PTSD and not because, for example, I am an obnoxious harpy and a terrible wife and mother (and I have bought into that... a lot!) In the heat of the moment it is so hard not to get defensive... and pathetic... and to lose all clarity about what is actually happening. I guess that will take practice.

Second, I was very interested in your point, Sunshine, about your son being a trigger for your husband. It is often issues related to our son that seem to trigger my husband too. When T (our son) gets sick, I (my husband) is filled with anxiety. T's fussy eating habits send my husband right off the deep end. If T is sick, won't eat his veges or is badly behaved it is all my fault... I am not parentling him properly. I didn't dress him warmly enough... I haven't fed him correctly... I am not disciplining him and am coddling him too much. The problem is that there is, of course, truth in all these accusations (no-one is a perfect parent!) but the terrible anger and despair that accompanies them can be too much for me to bear... Especially when, as a first time mother, I am not very confident about what I am doing. I can go two ways - getting angrily defensive or becoming abject and pathetic about my own terrible failures. Both suck... and neither help us get back on an even keel.

Yeah ... parentling of T and finances. Those are the big tow danger zones for us... I think both related to his trauma which really shattered his sense of safety and security. He fears for our son's health and safety and he fears for our financial security.

Third - I really want to know more about this issue of threatening to leave, or divorce or whatever. Of course, it comes up for us when things are really bad. Although we don't really "go there" afterwards, when things have calmed down, I think it is always an elephant in the room. When he is really bad I don't want him in the house and he probably doesn't want to be there - but he really doesn't have anywhere to go. I feel like a "halfway house" might be useful... so it doesn't have to threaten the marriage just because we need to get away from each other for a bit sometimes. Anyone tried anything like this?

Oh, there are a million other things swirling around my head. But that's enough for now. Better get the washing on and get to work. K

 

[Sunshine71]

Thank you for your super reply Karen

Its nearly 1am over here so please excuse a quick reply as I am shooting off to bed as you get ready for work!

My husband had a car accident 20 years ago - it was not his fault at all - however the little boy died. The recent hit and run car accident brought this all up and with our son too so this is the connection and why our son is a trigger.

However part of PTSD is trying to keep your loved ones safe and this could be what your hubby is experiencing - keeping them safe from danger...??

My husbands PTSD has flared up over the past 18 months and a little bit on and off before this. So I too remember my husband and still see the man I fell in love with. Lets hope and prey that with support etc that we see more of the real side of our husbands as appossed to the PTSD hurt side.

Pls excuse typos! Its v late!

All the best

Sunshine

 

[Kadie]

oh wow..reading all this really really helps me. Me and my bf are expecting our 1st child together, and I am terrified that this is all going to come crashing down on me..He goes through these random times of anger,directed at me..I am a whore, I am a bad mother to my son, I am a liar...it's all very mean, and all so off. Delutional. It makes me feel like the scum of the earth, and I know that I am not...then it is like the next day nothing happened...it drives me crazy!! I try to be understanding, but it is so hard when I am going through stuff too and I have to pretend it's all about him..and with the pregnancy he is totally being a jerk again...yelling at me, making me cry..saying he doesnt even know if he wants to be with me..and I am not a good mother...idk what to do...i cant subject myself to this verbal abuse..but I dont know how and when to confront these issues...do I envolve his family?

 

[doglover]

Hi and welcome!

I'm not a carer but I hope I'm allowed to contribute as I think the point has merit.

I think it would help to manage every family member's stress as much as possible. Having an infant around puts great strain and stress on new parents... and stress can trigger PTSD symptoms... and you being under the stress of raising a newborn yourself, you're probably not in a good position to respond as patiently as you would otherwise.

Having said that, you're both under stress, yet you might have better impulse control. Here's ideas to (hopefully) help the both of you.
(1) I suggest setting boundaries with him when he is calm to say you need him to manage his anger in more appropriate ways like taking a walk or writing about it. Give consequences if you feel you'll follow through with them.
(2) Keep your own reactions in check as much as possible. Takes two people to fight, yes his angry outburst is disrespectful. Yes you have a right to be upset. You can still model appropriate expression of feelings and set a good example for both him and your child.
(3) Hire a sitter once a week and the two of you have some calm, restoring couple time. Do something that will be relaxing for you both and allow you to relate as one adult to another without diapers and nipples (unless you want to involve the fun kind!).

Seriously, get the stress under control on all sides, as much as you can, and I think it will be the biggest help.

 

[doglover]

saying he doesnt even know if he wants to be with me..and I am not a good mother...idk what to do...i cant subject myself to this verbal abuse..but I dont know how and when to confront these issues...do I envolve his family?

Involve someone you know and trust to be physically present when you set boundaries with the father. Whether that is his family or yours, or your friends. Someone or a group around when you set boundaries.

You are right to call this verbal abuse. Have others to be around as you explain to him that he cannot speak to you that way. Either call up his family or if you know any friends who could be present that might help too. Give him consequences, that you'll be ready to act on. Even if that means leaving him, which only you can decide is right or not. PTSD doesn't excuse such critical words... it's on him to change what he's doing and it's on you to show him you won't tolerate it.

He may not even know he says these things but he needs to hear from you that you won't tolerate it. It may be hard to tell him he can't talk to you like that... but think of your unborn child and how great this opportunity is to create more love for him or her to grow up in.