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Childhood Justified Child Abuse..?

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There is no such thing as justified child abuse and I just had to say that because of your post title.

I am sorry that you were abused. Still, having sex can be pleasurable without you being a whore of God or any of the other names you may have been called. You can experience pleasure with a partner who loves you and has your best interest at heart and be a survivor rather than a victim.
 
I think a lot of child abuse (not just sexual, any really) had their abuser give them a "reason"...


There is no mention of a "whore of God" in the Bible. It is b.s. he used to manipulate you into staying quite about the outrageously horrid things he was doing to you. The false gods that the Israelite used temple prostitutes, as well as child sacrifices. That is one reason why God became so angry with the Israelites when they worshiped false gods. That is why God sent judgement on the Israelites when they worshiped false gods.

God speaks harshly in the Bible about those who push women into prostitution, and speaks very lovingly and kindly to those who seek to escape prostitution (the woman at the well, the prostitute in Jerico).
 
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I'm not a theologian. Not even close. Not even particularly religious. I'm not sure if I believe in God, but I'm smart enough to be afraid of him...if you get my drift.

My abuser's line was that I had been created special, "just like Eve". And just like Eve, I was a Whore of God. The language is missing from the bible, but maybe the concept isn't...

Bear with me, because I err on the side of feminism, and I think Eve already gets a pretty bad wrap in the bible without adding loaded words like "whore" into the mix. The Bible doesn't call her that, and I don't want to either.

Genesis mentions that God thought Adam could do with a "helper", or "companion" - at least, that's the 2,000 year old translation that my good book says. So he creates Eve...the "companion". It also says that once they ate the bad apples that there'd be enmity between them and they'd bruise each other. Eve goes on to have Adam's kid.

And then we lose track of Eve. She seems to disappear altogether. Is she still being Adam's companion? And is that like, "companion" nudge nudge wink wink? How the hell could we know?

Key point: When this abuse happened, I didn't know what a whore was. Not to worry - my abuser made it clear that my job was to make myself sexually available to him when & how he wanted. In fact I belonged to him until he was finished with me. It gets complex from there, because I then become the property of whoever God decides I should have sex with next, and I belong to that person, even if I haven't met them yet, and until they, in turn, are finished.

Complexities aside, I understood at the time that 'whore' wasn't an exchange of money for sex thing, it was just my purpose, provide sex...just like Eve.

The intellectual part of my head tells me to put the Bible down, step away from the Bible. Child abuse has nothing to do with God, except that God is a convenient and very persuasive excuse to use if you're a paedophilic clergyman.

But the intellectual part of my brain doesn't get a lot of airplay. My brain was hardwired to believe this guy. He went to great lengths to train my brain to believe this about myself. And like I said, I miss my abuser, I still believe he was helping me, not hurting me. When you give that belief system the God-ammunition that was used, it's really hard to just put those beliefs aside...you know?
 
Genesis mentions that God thought Adam could do with a "helper", or "companion" - at least, that's the 2,000 year old translation that my good book says. So he creates Eve...the "companion". It also says that once they ate the bad apples that there'd be enmity between them and they'd bruise each other. Eve goes on to have Adam's kid.

A couple of things: When the bible says that God would make Adam a helpmeet, it is indicating that she would complete him. That concept is seen throughout the bible where it talks about the husband and wife becoming one flesh. It, in no way, indicates she would be some kind of a whore for him, or God.

The scripture where it talks about enmity was God speaking to the serpent telling him that there would be an enmity between the seed of woman and the serpent, Satan, and one day the serpent would bruise the heel of the woman's seed, but he, the seed would bruise the serpents head. This scripture is the first prophetic mention of Jesus Christ. So the scripture has nothing to do with the relationship between Adam and Eve.
 
as messed up as it sounds, I (urgh) want to believe that I am his Whore Of God, and that it wasn't just an excuse for the sex & the sadism.

As do i, so that my mom really had a justified reason in my head and to me it was justified simply because it was done to me and im "the demon child to be the sexual sacrifice to all men" but what would you tell me?

How do you persude yourself that the justification they used to abuse you is just lies? Especially when you're not even sure that you want it to be lies..?

For me, slowly listening and really taking in the counter replies.

The more you post about it and talk about it and the more you hear that they were lies and whether you are spirtual or not (so far all of the "god stuff" is still mixed up to me) but if you take ALL religions, not cults but religons and you research them, their god is a good person that wouldnt ask you to be a "whore for him". And the more counter info you let it, the more automatically that programming gets lossened and broken up and you can say its possibe that its not true.

Also rely on the rational side, is it rational? I get you want to say, as i do, "its not rational but i believe it anyway" but the more you tap into that rational side to counter it with rational statements the more it becomes true.

No child abuse is ever justified.

True but when programmed to believe that its justified because it was done to you the more you believe that, therapist or not.

I still believe my past was justified because it was done to me and ive been in therapy for 7 yrs throwing that around.

Done to anyone else and its not justified, to me it is.

It takes a long time with a therapist to break that apart and learn to believe another way.
 
@lostforgottensoul - I've said it before, but I'll preface this again by saying that our stories are different.

That said, I relate a lot to the 'brainwashing' (why do I hate that word?) element in your abuse. It's incredibly inspiring to see the small shifts in your core beliefs in the posts that you've written since I joined. It's not all rainbows & bunny rabbits yet, but the small shifts are noticeable from the outside, and it's been really significant to me seeing that.

So, I can say to myself, fact: he was a paedophile, a psychopath, and a sadist. I say that over and over and over. Maybe I'm shifting slightly with that and I'm just too close to it to notice. That'd be nice:)

But the frustration for me at the moment is that those words are coming from the intellectual part of my brain. Putting aside how disconnected I am from the intellectual part of my brain, I'm also sending myself other messages from the intellectual part of my brain at the same time...

Fact: as well as being clergy, he was also quite a brilliant scientist - not just charismatic, but actually incredibly intelligent. And I know now that when it came to 'brainwashing' me, he threw in pretty much every technique known to man, from basic paedophilic grooming techniques, ritual, indoctrination techniques, graduated exposure & commitment, hypnosis... And he did all that in a very structured way.

This is NOT me saying I had it worse than anyone else, or my recovery is going to be harder than anyone else. It's just that even though the intellectual part of my brain is throwing me helpful messages ("Psycopath...say no more"), it's also sending me the message that "this damage is going to be too hard for you to undo...your brain has been deliberately and carefully programmed by a person who was a helluva lot better at this gig than you'll ever be, and it's become part of your brain for over 20 years".

I'm not going to say it's hopeless. It just feels like the baby steps that I'm taking are so small that I'll be visiting my T in the retirement home and still be working on this same issue.

Urgh! Enough with the "poor me" - god that gets old!
 
Fact: as well as being clergy, he was also quite a brilliant scientist - not just charismatic, but actually incredibly intelligent. And I know now that when it came to 'brainwashing' me, he threw in pretty much every technique known to man, from basic paedophilic grooming techniques, ritual, indoctrination techniques, graduated exposure & commitment, hypnosis... And he did all that in a very structured way.
I think this is significant, and you are right to see it as such. I'll say something that will sound horrible - but you were an experiment, it sounds like. And it sounds like he was very thorough, which means, he was effective - which means, you have a hard road ahead. That's not 'poor me' talk, that's just being realistic.

Being realistic doesn't mean you can't work through it. It's only making sure you aren't minimizing what happened.

Something that is true about programming: it depends on some simple (but strong) principles. Imagine them as table legs. So, one leg is going to be called, lets say, 'dependency/security'. Conditioning gets you to be actively dependent on whoever is conditioning you. The things you will be asked to do in order to be rewarded with security will be increasingly warped. The security itself might be shown as nothing more than cessation of pain, or a moment of acceptance, or kindness, or silence. You will have done things to get the reward, and you will hate yourself for those things - they are the confirmation (in your mind) that you were complicit, that you 'wanted it to happen', because you were needy, needed that security. But you didn't have a choice. I don't mean rationally, I mean functionally - your ability to choose was erased through the conditioning. It was never that you wanted to be dependent - you were taught to be dependent.

When you eventually can accept that it was done to you, this dependency - and you probably won't accept it all the way across the years, but you'll accept it for enough 'key' moments - then the whole table leg will start to crumble. And now, the table is tilted. Every other leg holding that table up has been compromised, because you affected one of them. De-programming has periods where it accelerates, and is easier, because a core value you were imprinted with begins to fall away. It gets harder again when you move onto another one. But in the big picture, they are all connected.
"this damage is going to be too hard for you to undo...your brain has been deliberately and carefully programmed by a person who was a helluva lot better at this gig than you'll ever be, and it's become part of your brain for over 20 years".
The good news is, it's all science. It's all methodology. You don't have to be better at it, you just have to keep hammering at it. He built the jenga tower (if you don't know what that is, google it, it's a good analogy) - you just need to keep pulling out pieces. It will collapse eventually.
 
@joeylittle - I can only Like that post once, but I'm going to print it out. It's all pretty awful, but man, the relief. I feel like a science experiment- that's sickening. But I guess it beats being a whore of God...I think...

Re the conditioning stuff: every now and then, I'd go to a lesson and there'd be a sudden explosion of anger from him. He was usually so patient & kind and I was terrified when he got angry. I was terrified he wouldn't let me come back (yuck).

But I've got enough perspective on my memories now that I can see that they weren't random. Each time he got angry at me, he'd push the boundaries out further & get me to do something way more extreme than the things I'd done so far. And when I did it...I got "rewarded" with the patient and kind version of him coming back.

Even his goddamn anger was calculated...That's some messed up sh!t.

*sigh* Seeing my T today. Back to the jenga tower...Don't give up.
 
I think a lot of child abuse (not just sexual, any really) had their abuser give them a "reason"...
Our abusers program us to hate ourselves so we don't put the blame where it belongs, on them. You're not a Whore. Some sick person taught you that, let your T teach you to see yourself differently. Dont let your abuser continue to hurt you by making you hate yourself.
 
I feel a lot f the abuse I had as a child was justified. i was told it was because I was lazy, arrogant, bad, fat, ugly greedy etc and a lot of trhose traits were true. I am also excessively sensitive to any personal slights so I feel i must have overreacted to the abuse

There is no such thing as justified child abuse and I just had to say that because of your post titl...
in my case some of it was justified. not the stuff when i was little and helpless but as an older child and teenagernd in adulthood
 
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