Living In Michigan, No Therapist Please Help!

[sharky]

I do have to say... I think you started off talking about the WISE center thing I said. I know, for sure, that the girl I know personally (was a friend of mine, until she confessed to me this, actually) that lied about any abuse in her life just so she could get free housing and continue not to work. She would actually sneak out of that place to go party almost every night. It was sickening to me, especially when she told me almost in these exact words, "Those girls in there? Now, they've got some messed up problems." and I'm pretty sure she still lives there and has for a long while. It drives me out of my mind. She even has a small child that she leaves behind, for the other people there to take care of. I can't stand it. She even made jokes about it to me, when I knew her.

And from what I can tell, if countless people have told me that they didn't find anyone good in my town, and that they all imposed religion (I mean, one of the places is called 'Christian' something. Can't remember the name. And I called them, hoping that they weren't like that... And I didn't think they were until I saw the place and it had a big cross on the building. They also only had one female therapist who would not take insurance.) then there has to be some truth there. I mean, the psychologist I saw for four years on and off... She never imposed religion, but that was because she never talked. Period. But she did wear a cross necklace every time I saw her. The town I live in, as everyone calls it, is a small 'hick town' and as a whole... Strongly believes in Christianity.

I do not mean to bring up religion, but I am not Christian nor do I want any of their beliefs pushed down my throat. They will not help me, just anger me. My moms best friend was a professor at the college here, and her son saw literally every single therapist in town. She's a Hardy-Christna (I might have spelled that wrong) and did not want her son seeing someone who talked about Christianity. But she couldn't find a single therapist that did not bring up religion at some point to her son. And that's just an example. Not including my friends and family and acquaintances who all have said the same exact thing.

I mean no disrespect to you at all... But I take everyone I know in this town giving me their word and their grief over not finding someone who wouldn't do that... I take that as fact. Not opinion. And because of how strongly I believe in that not being an okay thing to do, and how I have verbally attacked people in the past for trying to get me to see things their way as far as religion goes, it would be best for me to avoid that situation all together.

I mean, I have called everywhere I can and looked up anyone I could hoping maybe there was someone that I missed. Or maybe someone new to my town. But they are all mostly men, or women who don't take my insurance, or they don't have a good reputation with their patients. Or rather, they're ex-patients. So... This is kind of why I tried to stress that I am looking for someone up to 45 minutes away. As far as gas mileage goes, that is doable for me. Grand Rapids isn't really an option for me at the moment, as that's a fairly large city a little over an hour away and as soon as I get off of the high way... My gas gets eaten up quick. I really don't have the money to spare unless it is a last resort, which in a last resort case... I will see the woman I have found in Traverse City. I haven't seen her yet, but I have a really good feeling about her.

Also, I'd like to point out... That concerning the WISE thing... The friend thing is the reason why I said that place depresses me. Because she lives there and abuses the privileges they give her... A lot. I'd feel some shame because I do not want to be like her. I know there are women there who actually really need the help, support, and protection. I do not. At least, not like they do. My abuser is in prison and will be for probably another eight or nine years. But maybe if I just call and talk to a staff member, and see what they have to say. That wouldn't bother me. I'll give it a try, but I think it might be fruitless given the town I live in.

 

[BloomInWinter]

I hope it all works out for you, Sharky.

My point is, I relate to the way you look at the world because...that was me.

Now, because I don't just take people's 'word' as 'fact' but as opinion, I often find that what is true for them isn't necessarily going to be true for me. But neither of us is wrong.

My sisters had a disagreement with my cousin. They relayed what they believed were her motives/beliefs...and from their point of view, I'm sure that was their experience. But they told me....and I cut my cousin out of my life based upon my sister's 'facts'...

My cousin killed herself on her motorcycle the year after that.

I found out that jumping to judgment on my cousin without seeking info myself cost me that last year we could have continued a relationship, troubled as it was.

I also took my dad's comments that telling my mom about the abuse would destroy her and make her hate me.

I believed what he said. ...and it caused me to stop having any relationship with my Mom at all from the time I was in 4th grade. Now that I know what he said was 'fact' was actually protecting only HIM...I have a lifetime of grief to deal with. They're both dead now so I can't ask them about anything. But I could have possibly had more good memories of my Mom while I was in that house if I didn't feel so ashamed that she would hate me for being abused...which I also thought was my fault.

I don't bother myself about other people's motives for their actions. After all...that's just wasted mental space and I can't read minds. Though I thought I could, nobody can. That's a bizarre belief that was drilled into me from a very young age and it wasted several decades of my life on mental gymnastics about stuff that really doesn't matter in my life at all.

That never brought me any peace, that's for sure.

We all deserve peace in our psyches.

 

[sharky]

I will have to respond later, but I do have some things to say, Bloom. What I have time to say right now, is I respect you a lot from that post alone.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Haha, duh! Geez, why did I not think of that? Well... I feel a little bit ridiculous now... So... I'm gonna do that tomorrow and save myself a lot of wasted time. :oops:

LOL, no, not ridiculous! I didn't know you could do this, either, until it was pointed out to me awhile ago.

 

[catjudo]

Also, I'd like to point out... That concerning the WISE thing... The friend thing is the reason why I said that place depresses me. Because she lives there and abuses the privileges they give her... A lot.

Actually, you didn't say the place depresses you or that you would feel ashamed of calling. What you did was pass judgment on the place that works to help people in need...you called the place a piece of crap.

I know our WISE center, it's in an alley across from a liquor store. It's a small piece of crap honestly.

If your issue is with women that possibly take advantage of the system, then make your comments about them. But to call the place crap because they are not in a good location or because they have helped people that you feel/think did not genuinely need their help is unfair.

Is it possible that some of the things your friend has said about the place, the people there, or even her own circumstances are not 100% honest but are meant to be a defense mechanism of sorts and not allow herself to me lumped into the same category of these women who have such "messed up problems" as she put it? I'm just saying, it's possible.

 

[Chosen]

I just want to point out, if your professor's son was in Hare Krishna, he was actually in a cult...so perhaps the therapists were trying to, as best as they could, work on that...It's hard to avoid religion with Hare Krishna...and it is definitely a cult (which can be verified by Googling it). As someone who was raised in a cult, I would HOPE that the therapists, upon discovering that a client was in Hare Krishna, would try their hardest to help that person out of that abuse...and part of that is helping that person with spirituality and religion.

 

[sharky]

It's a cult because they live in a gated community. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hardy Krishna's. They are peace loving people, who have high respect for all life. I don't know what you mean by 'abuse' there is no abuse in their religion. And if someone is going to talk to ME about their religion while I'm paying them to help me, they can shove it up their ass.

No offense to you, but no. No one is shoving their beliefs down my throat, and they shouldn't be doing it to a young child either. Especially against the parent/guardians wishes. He wasn't living on a Hardy Krishna commune and so he was no registered in the FBI as being part of a cult. I mean, seriously. There is literally nothing to base why they are registered in the FBI as being a cult, besides that they are a religion and practice their religion behind the closed doors of a gated community. But in reality, it's like having a profile on 'hippies' because you're afraid that they are 'too much like Al Quida.' The child was just taught the thoughts of the Hardy Krishna beliefs; immense love and care of other animals and humans, and respect. I mean, come on, they're vegetarians. You can't really say a vegetarian is an evil person. And they're beliefs are based upon love for all, and meditation, mostly. That is really uncalled for to attack them, when you obviously do not know much about them.

 

[sharky]

If your issue is with women that possibly take advantage of the system, then make your comments about them. But to call the place crap because they are not in a good location or because they have helped people that you feel/think did not genuinely need their help is unfair.

Is it possible that some of the things your friend has said about the place, the people there, or even her own circumstances are not 100% honest but are meant to be a defense mechanism of sorts and not allow herself to me lumped into the same category of these women who have such "messed up problems" as she put it? I'm just saying, it's possible.

Again, I was talking specifically about the person who was saying things. She literally told me everything, and was laughing about how she took advantage of them. She would have told me if something had actually happened to her, but it didn't. I guess I have no real way of convincing you any differently. But she'd admit it with a smirk on her face. So I'm basing my judgement on her on what she told me over and over again, until I just couldn't hang out with her anymore. I'm not really sure why this upsets you so much, because I re-stated myself by correcting the way I made it sound. Yeah, it is in a crappy place, and it looks depressing because of the location across the alley from a liquor store. That has nothing to do with 'location in a low income area' because my town is too small for that to come into play. We don't really have any 'area specific' low income areas here. And I tried to re-instate that it wasn't the women there, or the people that I had a problem with. The biggest problem, was the friend that took advantage of them and that she just... Well, basically made fun of all the other women there while she did it.

And my other problem was that I didn't want to take away time or energy or anything like that, from women currently going through trauma. Or just recently recovering. I guess my priorities of who should be able to contact WISE has changed because of my friend. Because I do not want to take advantage of them, like she did and will openly admit to doing. But like I said, I have no way to convince you that she actually did that.

I didn't think that was fair. Not at all. Which is why I came back and corrected myself, because I knew after re-reading what I wrote that it was going to be perceived wrong. Like I was calling the women depressing, or the idea of the place. Which in a way, it is to me. But only because I think it's kind of sad that a place like that is necessary. That such a large number of women have to go to places like that. That in itself is unfair, in my mind. But it's not them I have a problem with or belittle, or the staff members. But I think it's unfair that if someone doesn't actually need their services, that they abuse them. It's not fair for someone, especially since our WISE center is really tiny, to take up a bed in that place if they can openly admit that they do not need the help when there is probably someone waiting for the opportunity to open up. To me, THAT isn't fair.

 

[Chosen]

It's a cult because they live in a gated community. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hardy Krishna's. They are peace loving people, who have high respect for all life. I don't know what you mean by 'abuse' there is no abuse in their religion. And if someone is going to talk to ME about their religion while I'm paying them to help me, they can shove it up their ass.

Firstly, I have been studying cults for over 3 years. I lived in one for over 12 years. I think that I probably have studied this more than you have, so don't judge what I say without having studied this out thoroughly for yourself.

I never said anything about a group being a cult because of there being a gated community. That has absolutely nothing as to whether or not a group is a cult. A group is a cult when it uses thought reform and mind control tactics to abuse its members in any psychological, phsyical, spiritual, financial, sexual, mental, or emotional way. The label "cult" has absolutely nothing to do with the CONTENT of a group's beliefs, but the CONTEXT in which that group is run. If the leaders abuse the followers with the use of mind control and thought reform, it's a cult. It could be a psychoeducational group, political group, religious group, athletics group, anything--but as soon as mind control is used, that's when it turns into a cult.

Read Robert J. Lifton's book "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism," paying special attention to the 8 criteria for thought reform.
Look up Margaret Singer to read about her 6 conditions for thought reform.
Read Steven Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control."
Research icsahome.org

Do that, and you will then have a slight glimmer of understanding about what a cult is and is not.

This has nothing to do with the FBI whatsoever. I'm talking about my own personal experiences and research.

Your logic is completely nonexistent. I would advise you to take time to research before you make claims about things of which you have no knowledge.

I do not attack the people within Hare Krishna, but I will not be silent about the abuse its leaders have poured upon thousands of people. These are wounds from which people will likely never fully heal. Any cult rapes its members' souls and forbids the members to have any thoughts of their own. It's a tragedy and one that I wish would be stopped.

It's not about their beliefs; it's about the way the leaders treat the people in that group.

 

[sharky]

Excuse me? It does have to do with the FBI, because they are the ones who have profiles on each and every person that considers themselves Hardy Krishna. Also, I DO know what I'm talking about since my mothers best friend lived on a Hardy Krishna commune for over twenty years. They are not abusive. Yes, they say to stay abstinent from sex and drugs. Sex, until marriage (like Christians are supposed to). They do not 'forbid them to have thoughts of their own' that's absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe two people liked what you said, because maybe you know what you're talking about for other cults. But NOT Hardy Krishna's. You're statements are false concerning them, they're Hindu's. They have gated communities because they want the materialistic outside world to not stand in the way of spiritual development.

You are completely in the wrong, 100%.

Also, concerning your earlier comment about the child probably needing help from the abuse... The child was not even born when the mother was living on the commune. So that's false. He had extreme ADHD a few years ago, when he was younger, and needed help through therapy because Adderol was not an option for him. His mother didn't want him to be on medication because he was too young, and she just wanted him to learn calming techniques.

And yes, I do know what I'm talking about, when it comes to Hardy Krishnas. At least enough to tell you that you are wrong.

And isn't mind control used in Christianity, and in all religions, if the people follow the religion? So shouldn't all religions be considered cults? Or is it because Christianity goes right along with the government, and it's a 'legal' form of mind control, and also highly encouraged?

 

[anthony]

Religion is not a cult, not be definition. Religion people choose, they're not forced. If you choose not to have sex, being the teachings... being you choose to follow that religions teachings. Some do, some don't, some become terrorists / killers using partial religion as their cause, as they don't read in context, they discard everything that they don't want to believe in.

Choice and force are very different things when combining the word, cult.

 

[sharky]

I agree. And people choose to join Hardy Krishna communities, they aren't forced. Also there is no where in their teachings where they are supposed to, or even encouraged at all, to hurt any other form of life in the name of 'God(s)'. Or for any other reason. They are taught to live a pure life, which to them means not eating meat, being abstinent, and not taking drugs or alcohol. But they also teach how you are supposed to love all life, and that karma is a real thing. They are also allowed to leave whenever they want and return/never come back at their own accord.



They can also just return to the community for worship or meditation whenever they see fit, but live off of the community. My mother isn't Hardy Krishna, but she got to visit the temple and make new friends with some of the people there. She visited while she was on vacation and visiting her friend(the one who used to live there). It's only the people who decide to stay there who are profiled as being part of a 'cult.' And, again, it does involve the FBI as they are the ones who keep the profiles on people.