EveHarrington
VIP Member
How is your faith preventing you from enjoying life? This aspect confuses me. But I also know that there are certain facets of Christianity which do indeed restrict certain activities.
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Losing My Faith In God.
- Post starter sonicwhite
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You are on the right track.:)
'In the beginning, Man created god :smug:and he saw that it was good....ie. good at scaring little kids into doing what you want because they are scared of going to hell and of the Cosmic Boogieman-in-the-sky.'
Ever wonder why god can 'heal' hidden diseases supposedly:laugh:, but he can't heal AMPUTEES?!?!?!?!?!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Conveniently invisible:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Life's hard enough without religion's chains, don't you think?
My trauma caused me to loose my faith in God and I know how scary that feels, especially if you have been believing for a long period of time. I personally grew up in the church so loosing my faith was like loosing a huge part of my identity. After my trauma I started researching how the God I had always been taught was there for me could have allowed me to be raped. How could he have just stood by and let such a terrible thing happen? That lead me to discover scientific and historical research that contradicted almost everything that I had been taught and little by little my faith started to lessen until I lost it all together. The fear of hell still scares me from time to time and I miss the illusion of a higher being watching over me at times but honestly loosing my faith was one of the best and most freeing things that ever happened to me.
Now I just want to make it clear that I'm not bashing anybody who believes in religion or saying the belief is a bad thing. It's great for some people and that's awesome! Believe in whatever you want, as long as you are a decent human go for it! Coexist and all that :) This is just my experience in leaving the faith.
Now I just want to make it clear that I'm not bashing anybody who believes in religion or saying the belief is a bad thing. It's great for some people and that's awesome! Believe in whatever you want, as long as you are a decent human go for it! Coexist and all that :) This is just my experience in leaving the faith.
EveHarrington
VIP Member
I don't personally believe that faith is at odds with science. Some of the worlds greatest minds are people of faith.
Friday
Sponsor
Agreed. 2 different questions are being asked.
Science answers How.
Religion answers Why.
As long as religion doesn't attempt to answer How & science doesn't attempt to answer Why? Absolutely no friction whatsoever.
D
Deleted member 12723
On my journey of recovery from symptoms and past traumas I got rid of toxic religon to find a new faith in God. It has helped me so much once I was able to sort it all out.
I am sorry about the loss of your beloved cat.
I wish you well on your own journey and hope that you find peace and recovery.
I am sorry about the loss of your beloved cat.
I wish you well on your own journey and hope that you find peace and recovery.
digger
Sponsor
I think there are a lot of 'whys' that science can answer? Not the more philosophical - why do bad things happen to good people? - kind of things maybe that @sonicwhite is struggling with, but there are a lot of whys throughout history that science has provided answers for, that might previously have been answered by religion. Why do volcanoes erupt? Why do eclipses happen? Why is there less light in the Winter? etc etc
I think 'Why...?' can be a great starting point for scientific discoveries...
Why does x respond in this way to y? Why are some people/animals/plants more resistant to disease than other?
In Sonic's case there could be an argument I think that asking 'Why am I suffering specific symptoms (vivid nightmares)?' could be answered better by science perhaps (possible med reactions/interactions) than by religion (God wants me to suffer some more to teach me a lesson).
Edited to add - I'm not religious in any way shape or form, but with a couple of exceptions, the people I've met who are, don't have any difficulty accepting scientific explanations for things as well.
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God is not a genie in a bottle granting wishes. Although you feel He isn't answering your prayers, the answer is not always yes. This is not a sick puppet show with God causing pain and then ignoring requests to intervene. The reason God "allows" bad things to happen is because he gave us, imperfect beings, free will. Free will allows us to make crappy choices and others to make crappy choices that may effect us. God does not promise our lives will be problem free but that with faith we will have the strength & fortitude to get through those problems. And make no mistake, when we walk toward God there will be temptations & negative things along the way. Put on the full armor of God to fight off all that comes your way. It will be a battlefield of the mind. But you have been given strength to get through all of it.
Faith /////////// Science
invisible Sky god /////////// no god
magical creation ///////// proven evolution
serve god ///////////// no god to serve
defy logic //////////// employ logic
mystery:"god did it"///////////// mystery: "we have more work to do"
ignore contradicting info.//////////// falsifiability
........... ...............
It does not matter @EveHarrington what you believe about faith and science because it is demonstrably true that faith and science are at odds. Facts trump belief.
Btw, Martin Luther said
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”
and "Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding..."
You say "Some of the worlds greatest minds are people of faith." Your claim is an 'appeal to authority' logical fallacy for one thing.
Second of all, it can easily be proven that almost all Scientists are atheist and that they are for a reason...ie. because they USE reason.
I'll give you a challenge, you come up with a list of the worlds greatest minds that are people of faith, and I'll come up with a list of those who are Atheist.
......and then you can prove what you say.....or not.:)
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Ok, I'll bite........
What are religions answer to Why....the sky is blue? gravity is so much weaker than the other 3 fundamental forces? non-avian dinosaurs went extinct? the Coriolis effect occurs? genetic mutation occurs? viruses vary in virulence? rocks vary in density? etc, etc......
@FridayJones Religion does not attempt to answer 'why' to these questions other than maybe the non-explanation of "god did it"
Science has answered how and why to all but one of those questions.
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Sideways
VIP Member
Again, prefacing this by saying that I'm not hugely into God:bag:
But I've gotta say, I don't get the science v's religion argument, unless you're taking every last word and letter of the good book totally literally. To me, what science can and can't (yet) prove to discredit the book at the centre of Christianity, Judaism or Islam, misses the whole point and value of religion.
Having spent some time living in a very religious part of the third world (Muslim/Christian mix), even as a non-believer I can appreciate the value of religion to both individuals and communities. It is the basic message of religion, and the common humanity it promotes, that weilds the real power and reason for religion:
Live in peace. And love each other.
That's it. That's the single most important message. That's what faith offers.
Ths value of religion isn't in the accuracy of whether we really all came from Adam and Eve or whether Noah really did round up 2 of every animal and stick 'em all on a big arse homemade boat. It's actually really simple, and common to all 3 of those faiths:
Live in peace, and love each other.
Even as a rough guide for how to live our lives, that's a pretty good start. There's value in that. Even as a non believer, I can appreciate the value in that.
Religious institutions on the other hand? Don't get me started!
But I've gotta say, I don't get the science v's religion argument, unless you're taking every last word and letter of the good book totally literally. To me, what science can and can't (yet) prove to discredit the book at the centre of Christianity, Judaism or Islam, misses the whole point and value of religion.
Having spent some time living in a very religious part of the third world (Muslim/Christian mix), even as a non-believer I can appreciate the value of religion to both individuals and communities. It is the basic message of religion, and the common humanity it promotes, that weilds the real power and reason for religion:
Live in peace. And love each other.
That's it. That's the single most important message. That's what faith offers.
Ths value of religion isn't in the accuracy of whether we really all came from Adam and Eve or whether Noah really did round up 2 of every animal and stick 'em all on a big arse homemade boat. It's actually really simple, and common to all 3 of those faiths:
Live in peace, and love each other.
Even as a rough guide for how to live our lives, that's a pretty good start. There's value in that. Even as a non believer, I can appreciate the value in that.
Religious institutions on the other hand? Don't get me started!
EveHarrington
VIP Member
Oh my. @void
I think it might do you well to ask for clarification before you go off on these rambling replies. This is the second time you've replied to me in such a way where you tear my argument apart with the premise that you're right/I'm wrong.... (And actually only the second time you've replied to me ever!) But the thing is that you don't bother to truly understand what someone is saying. The first time you did this to me I was only on the forum maybe a few weeks at most. You ripped apart my reply in the meditation thread and laughed at what I said. It was obvious that you didn't even read beyond the first statement as everything in that first reply in that thread was already an explanation for everything you challenged me on and questioned me about. It was "interesting" to say the least! And----upsetting. As a new person I was taken aback. Now I realize it's not me.
And now we have this thread--- Again, instead of asking for clarification of my statement you make countless assumptions in your reply to me that are so far off the mark that there's no point in continuing that line of conversation. Honestly I don't really enjoy conversing with people who have such an aggressive reply style and try to bait me far away from my original point.
I stand by what I originally said. FAITH and science are not at odds. (With this restatement can you now see where you made the assumption that leads your argument far away from what I said?)
I urge you to employ a different conversational style where perhaps you aren't so reactionary. (Tons of slash marks does indeed make a statement and makes you seem quite angry.) Perhaps ask people what they mean before you reply so that you can ensure you aren't making a ton of assumptions about what they're saying.
I think it might do you well to ask for clarification before you go off on these rambling replies. This is the second time you've replied to me in such a way where you tear my argument apart with the premise that you're right/I'm wrong.... (And actually only the second time you've replied to me ever!) But the thing is that you don't bother to truly understand what someone is saying. The first time you did this to me I was only on the forum maybe a few weeks at most. You ripped apart my reply in the meditation thread and laughed at what I said. It was obvious that you didn't even read beyond the first statement as everything in that first reply in that thread was already an explanation for everything you challenged me on and questioned me about. It was "interesting" to say the least! And----upsetting. As a new person I was taken aback. Now I realize it's not me.
And now we have this thread--- Again, instead of asking for clarification of my statement you make countless assumptions in your reply to me that are so far off the mark that there's no point in continuing that line of conversation. Honestly I don't really enjoy conversing with people who have such an aggressive reply style and try to bait me far away from my original point.
I stand by what I originally said. FAITH and science are not at odds. (With this restatement can you now see where you made the assumption that leads your argument far away from what I said?)
I urge you to employ a different conversational style where perhaps you aren't so reactionary. (Tons of slash marks does indeed make a statement and makes you seem quite angry.) Perhaps ask people what they mean before you reply so that you can ensure you aren't making a ton of assumptions about what they're saying.
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