News Manchester this time

[Deadman]

But it's that collateral damage that is churning out so many young men ready to commit suicide bombings.

I agree with everything you said up until this point. The suicide bombings are not a response to collateral damage. They were going on in various countries around the world long before the US was involved in Afghanistan and Iraq. They were carried against local governments considered to be apostate. They were carried out against religious sites and even other sects of Islam.

Terrorism and suicide bombings are merely tactics. They are tactics that have been adopted by a particular brand of Islamic thought that deems the end justifies the means when fighting for an Islamic caliphate.

I fought these guys for a long time. There are a lot of misconceptions out there about who they are, why they exist. Its not poverty, it's not collateral damage, they are not crazy (there are some exceptions), they are not just criminals. Its not injustice either, though they are very good at using it to their advantage.

These guys are among the most dangerous people on the planet; TRUE BELIEVERS. They know they are right. They know that god is on their side. They know that in the end they will win.

 

[Deleted member 37085]

It looks like there has been a new terror attack. Manchester this time.

[URL="Link Removed...

Oh so frightening; these suicide bombers/attacks are now so prevalent that horrifyingly that this is almost status quo and order of the day when hearing of another bombing and no way to stop ISIS. No way...Praying for the victims, families, and friends of the Manchester bombing. Makes me sick and terribly sad. :(

 

[Deadman]

Back in the Soviet-Afghan war mujahideen leaders referred to Russia as the 'little Satan' and the US as the 'big Satan'. Asian leaders warned the west that they would be next. Nobody listened. These guys are in it for the long game.

 

[Deleted member 37085]

Stupid people and I live here in the US. I swear politicians are losing all common sense.

Ditto.

 

[Casey_03]

@Deadman You're right, I should've phrased that better. I don't think they're a response to collateral damage; I think the collateral damage helps recruiting efforts and helps more young men get brainwashed. Not a direct response, but a factor. But I think there are myriad factors, which is why this topic always leads to so much debate. There's no one thing that is causing this, there are many different facets.

I have known Wahhabists who are completely peaceful and DON'T go out trying to wage war on non-believers, who keep to themselves and lead quiet lives.

I feel like desensitization also plays a big role. If you grow up in a place where bombings and mass casualties are the norm on a daily basis, death is just not that much of a big deal. Human life loses its value. That's true for any war, I think, but probably also plays a big factor in this. Just my opinion.

 

[Casey_03]

And to reiterate -- I don't mean any of my comments as a justification, and I don't sympathize. But I think viewing the whole issue as a matter of "good vs. evil" is counterproductive.

 

[anthony]

They were going on in various countries around the world long before the US was involved in Afghanistan and Iraq.

True, but when I took a look into historical notions of this, it was these very countries attacked who were already actively involved in either their country (invasions and such) or were actively part of the religious war already. The Middle East has had certain European countries involved in their thousand years war. The US, UK, Australia, et cetera, were not.

Don't get me wrong, there have been attacks on embassies and such in other countries where covert operations are known to be run from, thus they targeted those installations within said country. That was an eye for an eye, basically. Not America as a nation, specifically its civilians. Or UK and allies. Covert operations are small and precise. Mass civilian casualties are not the norm.

We got involved in something that we were warned not to get involved in. Now we're in for the longevity too. Thousands of years, hatred and such, we're now apart of forever because politicians just couldn't say NO.

There is a much larger picture to all of this... you can't lay blame at any one section or country.

If any Christian even murmurs the words muslim zealot, they're a hypocrite, considering the history of Christian zealots. Muslim zealots are amateurs compared to Christians, to this date, even with their thousands of years of war. Amateurs.

 

[Deadman]

I did an short operation in Afghanistan with some American soldiers. Before we left they gathered in a circle with an army chaplain who among other things quoted Psalm 144:1 "Praise my Lord. He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle".

When we arrived at our target the Taliban and AQ were praying. Our Afghan liaison wouldn't let the ambush begin until prayers were over. I have no doubt they had an equivalent to Psalm 144:1.

All the prayers didn't seem to help anyone.

 

[anthony]

All the prayers didn't seem to help anyone.

That should be the mantra for all war... think before we contemplate war, as all the prayers won't help either side.

 

[The Albatross]

I don't think this means a whole lot, to be honest. Most Middle Eastern countries people are poor and quite simple in their lifestyle. Western laws vs Western religious writings, applies the same thing and would be filled with contradictions.

Completely disagree. Would you like to prove your case/position here? It is interesting to me that you elevate your assertions based nothing factual however press me to "prove" my case.

With regard to the topic, which was a terror attack in Manchester by extremists... principle of abrogation is actually very relevant. Also relevant is that of the three main holy books the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran... only one seeks to subjugate people and assert dominance globally.

Christians have killed more people than any other religion. I don't think stones should be thrown in glass houses.

You asked me a question, I answered. But this straw man argument now takes the thread off topic. The question in and of itself, though often parroted as purportedly true is a quagmire. If ya want to get down to it, disease has killed more people. Second would be "political powers"/Democide ( Democide - Wikipedia ), followed by deaths attributed to religions. Some argue, that atheist's have killed more but I find that the topic and the answer are far to nuanced to even answer. What we can say, however is that (with regard to this topic)... what religious groups at present or even in the last 100 years kill/maim/murder for the expressed purpose of advancing the cause of a god?

You have not proven your statement

You haven't.

I would like to read the evidence for this please. I can show you plenty of evidence of Christianity attempting world conquest, killing everyone that refused to accept Christianity as the only religion of worth.

I have read the evidence. Please feel free to provide your own though maybe on a new topic as this thread is now solidly off topic? A good resource is Encyclopedia of Wars, by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod. Huffpo has a good article here: Is Religion the Cause of Most Wars? | HuffPost

However... I would state that the "truth" though can be approximated when the question is very clearly and narrowly defined is not exactly what you imagine it to be. Because as the book I referenced, which chronicles recorded warfare, lists 1763 wars. Of those 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, which is less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare. Of that less that 7 percent, by a very small amount Islam "wins". But moreover at about 60:1 political/secular governments out pace by far this.

What next? Buddhism is secretly trying for world domination too?

Unnecessary, but nope though there have been Buddhist extremists who have murdered. It is Anthony a fact that jihad and the advancement of Islam is one of the tenants (sp?) of the Quran and that is a significant difference to any other major religion's holy books.

So far as the rest of your last post, the "they warned us" stuff... well... that would be governments... and isn't really worth commenting about.

 

[Deleted member 37085]

..."home of the Brace" hey maybe it will be changed to brace...it fits!

 

[Tornadic Thoughts]

All it takes in my highly jaded and informally educated opinion is a much deeper look behind all of the well-placed curtains into the food system, the medical system, the military system, the education system, the prison system, the energy system, the banking system, the religious system, the political system, etc. to see all the dots anxiously waiting to be connected. It never fails to be much worse than one can imagine, from what I've laid eyes on, thus far.

But, if you try to connect them for someone, even at their request, you're often looked upon as an ignorant fool as most beliefs are already carved in stone and can't easily be shifted. It's dots that each must connect for themselves as they grow to better innerstand the big picture. So many shytstems, so little time. We're kept busy, miserable, distracted, and in a state of ongoing fear and dis-ease for a reason. His-story is typically written by the victors, also to be taken with a grain of salt.