Marriage

[Eji]

Thanks all, I thought it was just me having a wierd outlook on it all

Fobeba - thank you for your reply. We have had massive trust issues within our relationship for a long time. I was going to end 18 months before we married 15 years ago as I was bored. We met at uni, when I was after a rebound girl. She convinced me not to use protection as she was on some herself, later found out, through her own admittance, that it was her way of making sure I didnt leave her. Needless to say, my first child was born as a result of this. Not shirking responsibility in any way, shape or form here, it takes two to tango as the saying goes, but that cast a massive trust issue. I got married to remain in my first childs life, many friends disagreed with me at the time, but I told them that I did what I thought was best for them and committed myself to being in the long haul as my daughter was my responsibility (two to tango). So I buttoned down for the long haul, and we had more kids because I think kids should have siblings (not wanting to open another can of worms with that one please).

The trust had already gone, I felt trapped, as we got older, our paths carried on heading in different directions, resulting in lots of arguments and disagreements. Many of lifes great things (moving countries, areas, visiting countries, studying further, job opportunities), all lost due to me wanting to remain committed to being a good father and raising my children. If I am honest, I never loved my wife, she came into my life as a rebound girl from university (good or bad, whatever, I was in my 20s then)

We lead different lives, different ideals, very little in common and we do nothing together, but live under the same roof. There are more trust issues surrounding money, and infidelity, but I wouldnt mind if she ran off with someone else now, save me the hassle but I think she will continue to hang on.

I love my three kids, I still want to be a part of their everyday lives, but not hers. Havent got anyone else in mind, and she isnt a bad person at all, she is a fantastic mother to the kids.

In relation to talking to her, she shuts me down whenever I try to talk about us, she isnt interested in hearing it and starts shouting and screaming and storms out on me. This has been the case now for years.

 

[Etiw]

Fobeba here.

In relation to talking to her, she shuts me down whenever I try to talk about us, she isnt interested in hearing it and starts shouting and screaming and storms out on me. This has been the case now for years.

We all have our limits. That would be beyond mine. What actually happened in my case is that I slowly realized a lot things, like I never laughed when I was around my husband. And, I like to laugh. There were a lot of things. We'd have arguments that kind of went like 1) lots of mean yelling 2) I'd walk away, rather that either continue going in circles or killing him 3) some time later he'd act like nothing had happened. 4) I was confused.

Finally, there was a day when he started in on something, I looked at him and I clearly remember thinking "I'm not going down this road one more time." It was pointless. I knew what would happen and nothing would change. I wasn't up for spending the rest of my life like that. (And I'd said that before.) At some point, I said "I'm not going down this road one more time" or words to that effect. He accused me of threatening divorce. He was wrong on two counts. I hadn't mentioned it and I don't threaten.

We tried marriage counseling. The first session, the T said, there are basically three options. 1) Live with things like they are. (A friend added that "If you do that, you don't get to bitch about it.) 2) Change things. 3) Get out. I said up front that I wasn't willing to live with things as they were. A few sessions later, my ex came in and announced "I'm 55 years old, I've been like this my whole life, I'm too old to change." I went to see a lawyer the next day. The divorce was rough, I won't lie. But it was the right thing to do and I've never regretted it.

I hope you can find a way to a better life. You ALL deserve to be happy. And, maybe happiness is over rated. I think you each deserve to be in a relationship with someone who cherishes and appreciates you. Life is too short to be miserable.

 

[Eji]

Thanks for replying Fobeba. Over the years, I just feel that I have lost so much of myself, lost how to laugh, how to be fun, how to just be me. In order to afford conflict, I have sacrificed many dreams, of which I am too old now to pursue anyway, and just feel that I am walking around in the same rut.

Would things change if I left? I have no idea, but I dont think they could get any worse because I am lonely when I am with the wife anyway. I have spent the last couple of days with thoughts flirting around in my head about the logistics, financial issues etc. I know the grass isnt always greener, but I also really dislike that saying because its a way of also saying - well what is the point of even trying because its safer to assume that nothing with change. Sayings like that make me think of Thomas Edison. He was labelled as useless, sacked from his first two jobs for being lazy however it took him over 1000 attempts to make the light bulb. When questioned by a reported one day, he was asked how did he feel about failing so many times. He responded saying that he never failed once, he just learnt 1000 times how not to make a light bulb.

My mental health isnt helping much, I dont know if I am safely or logically distinguishing between the sources of each emotion, and I find myself too tired to try to work out and analyse them. I dont want to hurt my children, but I dont want them to suffer either. I feel that I am back in the days of damage control - its already hit the fan, so what do I do to make it less worse and protect myself, or now, in this life, protect my kids, because they are all I care about. My marriage isnt physically abusive, but it is emotionally empty and whilst there isnt anyone else, I find my mind wandering towards other woman, something I have never done before.

How do you do it? As in, how to you not destroy a family anymore than is inevitable? How to you lessen the impact? I think of all the families I have seen destroyed over the years, some by my hand through work and some just collateral damage of their loved ones demise.

And am I really strong enough to be thinking about this type of thing when I struggle to keep myself above the ground on a daily basis let alone trying to work out something as complicated as this, which even for a mentally healthy functioning person, would likely cause them sleepless nights

 

[Ijaha]

I think modelling a loveless marriage to children is damaging to them.
I think being true to yourself, while scary and requiring loads of courage and a measure of self-care, pays off more, in the long run.
I think if you live your life for convenience rather than authenticity, you die a little more each day.
I think, as long as you keep working on connecting with your children and putting your and their wellbeing first, they will be better parented than by you being a martyr.

Be your real self with them, and treat yourself as someone who's wellbeing is important to them, so they learn to do the same.

They can't trust you if you are living a lie. It might take time for them to accept it, but making changes that honour yourself, will allow them to develop more respect for you, than if you put yourself last all the time.

 

[Cana]

It sounds like your main concern is leaving the kids 'damaged' and financially insecure. If you left, your wife would likely find someone else..so they probably wouldn't struggle financially for too long..she could maybe even apply for benefits..

Lying to you about the birth prevention was a downright despicable thing for her to do. She also is majorly in denial that she's in a loveless marriage and reacts in an abusive way when you try to discuss it with her. She actually sounds quite manipulative! Couples therapy would be hopeless because it won't make you love her.

I suppose you need to think what's going to be best for you..do you want love in your life or are you more concerned about temporarily upsetting the kids? When the youngest is 16, would you wait that much longer before leaving?..would you leave then? Would that be easier to cope with or would it be easier to find happiness sooner instead? Will you regret waiting much longer for that happiness?

I still feel you'll be setting a better example to the kids in the long run by leaving soon.

If I were you, i'd leave soon.

 

[Eji]

Definitely my concern is primarily for the kids. She isnt a bad person as such, and she is a good mother to the kids, she loves and looks after them so I wouldnt have any concerns about them suffering in a physical manner, its just we are not right for each other but I feel guilty.

The overall consensus here so far is to do whats best for me, which I do agree is the best thing to do. I just need to get the courage up and take action.

 

[Zojeb]

I understand, working up the courage is difficult..I wish you all the best in achieving the life you truly want.

 

[Wuvak]

I recently left my wife 6 months after marrying her of a 4 year relationship.
I married her knowing I was unhappy, enmeshed with a woman who has anger issues, I felt trapped. the care taker in me always thought if I make her happy we will both be happy. I became less happy because I was ignoring my needs.
I thought some of the same thoughts you are thinking. We don't have the complications of children involved.
What I didn't know that was not factored into any of my thoughts was the actual process of divorce.
If you are in the United States, each state is different. For example in my state you have to be separated for a year before you can apply for divorce. Some states one person can apply for divorce in other states both people have to agree unless under circumstances like infidelity.
Not to stop you from pursuing your happiness.
I am glad I left. The happiness was for me instant for a little while. Then as I got further in the process a layer of grief was added.
It just has been different then what I imagined when I was in the stage you are in now.
I am sure with children it adds an additional layers to the process.
Be prepared for any good lawyer to suggest couples therapy, mediation .... before divorce.
Be prepared to be the jerk who refused or in my case dropped out of couples therapy.
If you are not in therapy, get in it, separation and divorce especially if you are the one to left can be brutal.
Be prepared to answer a lot of questions that you need to be brutally honest about your feelings.
Your wife will have questions, her family, her friends, your kids.
I am avoidant, this was/is incredibly hard to realize how much I actually need to stand up and answer the 'why's' everyone has.
So my main point is get in therapy for yourself and for the kids, look for a therapist that is familiar with divorce process buckle up for a bumpier ride then you may realize, check out the laws in your state regarding divorce. Look at the financial costs. My lawyer 4 very short emails $225.
I totally 110% understand where you are just consider some therapy before you actually leave. All the questions you ask about your effects on your children are really great questions that I feel need professional attention.

 

[Kanuvon]

Fobeba, again

I have sacrificed many dreams, of which I am too old now to pursue anyway, and just feel that I am walking around in the same rut.

There was a lot about the situation I left that WAS "all I'd ever hoped and worked for." And yet, what I remember most about leaving is the feeling, as I drove out of the yard for the last time, that I was free and had the rest of my life (such as it is) ahead of me. There's no way, realistically, I'll ever get back to a place like that. I went through times when I quite literally didn't know where my next dollar was coming from, until it arrived. But living in my vehicle (did that too) was better than living in a loveless marriage.

And, I agree, what you're modeling for your kids matters.

If you're in therapy, it can't hurt to discuss this. It won't hurt to talk to a lawyer either. (There are a lot of web sites that will give you an idea, in general, what the law is like in your state or country.) As far as your wife goes.......when I think about it, she sounds like she has plenty of survival skills. Much like my ex did. She may not be happy with the divorce, but I'll bet she lands on her feet. (Just as a head's up, things got kind of ugly, in my case. He had to blame the situation on someone, so he blamed it on me and some really wild stories got passed around. I, eventually, left the area for a few years. Things blew over. But, there was some strange stuff and it would have been worse if we'd had kids, I suspect.)

 

[Ecob]

.
I can understand how conflicted you must be feeling and I wish it was so much easier to resolve. Life get's so messy doesn't it? We have this horrible gift of hindsight and doesn't it create problem's! Then we yearn for real love, happiness and fulfilment in all things for whatever life we have left. And why shouldn't we or you, right? After all, having done all the 'right' things time is ticking by....and it's not actually working out how we imagined it would. Yep I hear you. We really are our own worst enemies at times.

I don't think wishing your wife would find someone else and leave the relationship would work out too well for anyone in your family. Deception is a really bad move on all count's. If you do look at other women and wonder...I think maybe stop that for the moment, you have some big issue's to work through before you add anything else into the mix.

It sound's as if both of you somehow have agreed that you are not in the relationship for each other? Would this be accurate? If it is then without sounding too simplistic about it all and putting aside the who did what, when and why to whom stuff.... You are both living under the same roof for the children and nothing else. Is this really true? Only you and your wife can answer and resolve this.

Unlike inventing a light bulb, you conceived children and regardless of the circumstance's of how they came to be, both you & your wife cannot and I'd imagine - would not want to go back and not have these marvellous, beautiful children in your live's. So, hey you have both done really well to get this far. It doesn't appear that there is abuse, neglect or any harm occurring to your children by either of you but that's impossible for me to comment on.

So, re the children. If both of you or if your wife really will not sit down and discuss this, then just you - have to consider what is in the best interests of your children and that doesn't automatically mean sacrificing yourself on the alter of matrimony forever. But, it doesn't mean that you can blind-side your wife with a alternative life-style suddenly either. You did make a decision that she (probably) wants you to stick to. If so, you have a lot of work ahead of you.

I have watched lots of relationships breakdown in front of me where there are children involved and I have no respect for adults that tear each other apart in trying to depart from each other. The real loser's are always the children when parent (s) behave badly towards each other.

You can still be a loving, responsible and connected father without being married to your wife. It will be very different and it will take a lot of adjustments but it can be done. Know what you want to achieve and why.

Whatever you decide to do, please be as kind and considerate as you can be and don't expect a rush of happiness to flood over you straight after you make your decision or anytime real soon. There will be lot's of emotion's not just for yourself but coming from your children that you are going to have to be able support them through.

It is quite normal to go through the 'hard slog, this is never ever going to end' phase of a marriage while raising children and cast your eye's over it all and think to yourself there has to be something better....etc.

I know this has been suggested already but have you really, really tried to talk to your wife about all this. Like not at the end of a work day, not after you have both done all thing's parenting and are too tired to think. I cannot see how she could be missing how sad you are and not want to discuss it with you. Maybe she's sad too?

I am not going to go into the realities of finance, housing, your legal system etc., because I don't know about any of that in your part of the world.

 

[Velu]

#Over the years, I just feel that I have lost so much of myself, lost how to laugh, how to be fun, how to just be me. In order to afford conflict, I have sacrificed many dreams, of which I am too old now to pursue anyway, and just feel that I am walking around in the same rut.

..I am lonely when I am with the wife anyway.

..I dont want to hurt my children, but I dont want them to suffer either. I feel that I am back in the days of damage control - its already hit the fan, so what do I do to make it less worse and protect myself, or now, in this life, protect my kids, because they are all I care about.

How do you do it? As in, how to you not destroy a family anymore than is inevitable? How to you lessen the impact?

Different situation, but! I lost myself, my dreams, half my life, to the effort of maintaining a relationship that, with knowledge and hindsight, could never have been saved as my wife was far too mentally ill to benefit from even twenty three years of devotion - I think you said, somewhere upthread, that you meant your vows, well me too.. till death, or boyfriends, do us part.
I think I've learned that, at some point, I need to decide if a relationship is worth continued effort, or intractably set on its way to regret and, therefore, to end it and face an unknown future.

I have two wonderful sons, both damaged by their mothers issues as well as by my own lonely misery.. and that is the only 'Family Life' they've known in their own lifetimes.
For the need to be the best parent I can, I have to wonder how they might have benefited if I'd made the decision to leave earlier - it has been plain to see that they appreciated me, early on, so much more as a father since I've been free, happier, and been able to apply my own parenting style.

I wish I'd left far sooner, by my own choice and with a plan for the future for us all.

Instead, I and my family suffered, till a rudderless end furnished my kids with a confused mess of multiple father figures coming, then going, their mother dying, being kicked out of their home, then separated between family in a position to accommodate.

I would say: consider your position as a family, how that might develop over time, what improvements are possible, if it might be better to make a drastic change.

Are you going in a good direction?
Can you direct that?
Is a drastic change necessary?

Final thought - the content 'Nuclear Family' is a myth we all bought into, conditioned our kids to believe in and were brainwashed by.. but it's a crock of shit disproved by all the kids who said, " I like you now, Dad, 'cos you're calm, and not sad all the time." (Oldest at age 16 - words that will always stay with me!)

 

[Eji]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the responses since my last post, I keep reading them, thinking, and realised that I havent replied to any of them. To be honest, I have been trying to think of how to - the last couple of days have been tough with my other issues taking priority - not related to this overall post, so I havent really had the strength to think too much about this thread.

Thank you to everyone for being so willing to describe your own experiences and the emotions that you all went through. I have found it helpful hearing it on her from both sides of the gender gap.

In relation to the kids and abuse, it is correct that there is no abuse of the kids. I grew up in an abusive home so I have always made a concerted effort to not allow my children to experience family upset - one of the main stumbling blocks I am facing now because I feel that if I do this, then I am no better and will cause the situation that I have spent so many years of marriage trying to avoid if that makes sense. Our children are very much loved, all are very happy as far as I can tell and all excel at school so I know we have been doing something right.

In relation to therapy, I am so tired now of trying to make things work. Could therapy work? I dont know but if I am honest, I dont know if I even have the energy to try as there is so much water under the bridge, I dont know how, or even if, I want to bring it back. Im a terrible person arent I.

I have no problem in answering questions from her, as long as they are functional questions because most of them are just accusational ones. As for her friends, I really couldnt care what they think, I dont owe them anything. My own friends have all told me - not surprised, whats taken you so long? When we got married, some of my female friends asked where their wedding invitation was - my response to them was - you know I dont want to get married, so I dont want you to be there for me pretending to be happy for me when you know how I truly feel. These same female friends are fully supportive of me divorcing as they all want me to be happy and have told me that they have hated watching me vanish into a former self over the years, but always wanted to respect the decision I made.

In relation to us both knowing its a loveless relationship, my female friends have already made it very clear that there is no way the wife wouldnt sense this, and rather than confronting it, she is living in a state of denial which could be why she freaks out whenever I try to approach the topic. I dont want to hurt the wife, I really dont, but I dont want to keep hurting myself earlier and as a comment made earlier in this thread - remaining a martyr for the kids. That really hit me hard.

But I dont have a plan of attack at the moment. I dont know if I am strong enough at this moment in time to go ahead with this. I struggle to keep myself above board and not sure how I would take emotionally the impact of my kids as I know I would feel guilty. I know I would feel that I failed like my own parents, that whilst I am not abusing my children, that I failed as a father, and as a man. One of our main responsibilities is supporting our families - not destroying them.

I should speak to my therapist about it, starting to see a new one soon through work. Luckily I can get free legal advice as well so that takes a concern away from that aspect.

I am tired of coming home and feeling lost and lonely.