Memory With No Emotions

[black_dove]

So i'm new to this forum, and i'm not sure I am even posting in the correct space.

Currently I am going through EMDR for the first time in regards to a host of traumatic issues related to my past. I have so far only focused on one target memory.

Right now I am surprised I am even able to consider the memories traumatic, but my T validates that these experiences certainly were (for example: witnessing my father choking my mother on the kitchen floor when I was seven or eight).

Even now it feels ridiculous to even call that traumatic, which brings me to the central issue: I have no emotions attached to my memories. I don't have flashbacks. I just don't feel anything about them, one way or the other. even with the EMDR, all I am getting so far is fleeting physical sensations (which surprised me, I was very reluctant about EMDR and doubted it's efficacy).

Does anyone else experience this as well? Does having no emotion attached to the memory mean that it has already been processed? Does it even matter now to go back through all this stuff?

I should clarify and say that since I have begun therapy (about a month ago) I have, off and on, felt very out of it, shut down, and numbed out from almost everything. I feel no love or joy or even pain. then I will switch to over-reacting to something very intensely - after which I calm down and realize it was out of proportion. But nothing seems to fit, right now. I feel like I don't even know myself. This isn't the first time in my life I have felt this way, but it certainly is magnified right now.

Anyone else have similar experiences? thoughts? opinions?

 

[Katy]

Hi black_dove, welcome.

I can relate to what you're saying, when I told some of my friends about the trauma I'd experienced as a child I said it in a jokey manner as if it's not serious. I struggle to take any of it seriously and I'm not sure why. Even traumatic things that have happened since I feel completely emotionally detached from and struggle to think about seriously. So yeah I guess that is similar to what you're going through. To me, the trauma is just my life, it's just the way things are and I never saw any point in taking it too seriously, but it's had an effect on the rest of my life too.

I don't really have any advice, I've not begun proper therapy yet, but you're not alone! :)

 

[black_dove]

Thanks katy! I have totally done this as well - made jokes out of my fathers behavior, for instance, or downplayed most of what i went through. Mostly I seem to struggle with whether or not any of this even matters now. I tell myself that the past is the past and I should just move on...but I cannot ignore how my life is being and has been impacted. What really kick - started my whole process (entering therapy) was the fact that I started dating someone who is nothing like previous relationships: He's actually nice! and this, as my therapist pointed out, can be the strongest trigger for some people. it certainly has been for me. I test him at all points and struggle to trust him even though he is very consistent and trustworthy, so far.

Other than 'making jokes' I also tend to tell the stories as if they happened to someone else, or as if i read it in yesterday's newspaper or in a book somewhere. I have had this backed up by those closest to me, they pick up on the fact that I am clearly detached from it all, even as they sit there kind of goggle-eyed like, 'damn, that's rough.'

Have you ever read the book 'Trauma & Recovery' by Judith Herman? I picked it up about five years ago and it started the process of getting me thinking that all my other MH diagnoses (bipolar NOS - they never could pin it down!, and borderline personality disorder) just weren't telling the entire story. Reading through that book was what caused me to think for the first time that what I was suffering from had a name that wasn't so associated with stigma...it helped just a bit for me to not think that I was totally broken. I always felt that way and it was traumatic going through the MH system only to get told i was broken (irrevocably) some more...not to say that I don't associate stigma with what happened to me, because I still do, and that's what i'm working on.

Thanks for the reply, I am certainly glad to hear any feedback and to know I am not alone! I wish you the best of luck in finding a therapist as well!

 

[anthony]

Hi,

Please use basic grammar, or your posts will be removed. Everything is fine, except that you are writing in all lowercase vs. starting sentences with a capital so people can read correctly.

 

[Powder]

Thanks Anthony,

Yes, Black Dove, I really liked your post and I can't read it. I actually got a huge headache while trying to read it because of the lack of grammar. So Anthony is correct. It is really a strain on those with PTSD, and honestly, everyone, I think.

I think when you are so young, you see stuff you don't have the sophistication to categorize, so it just shocks you, numbs you. That's it. You don't feel much because you haven't attached feelings to it yet. I feel similarly about my memories, only I've let myself think of it and talk about, and each time I do, I come to more grips with how sad I am that I had to see it. This attaches more sadness to the memory, so that I don't feel numb, I feel human. It feels much better to feel sad and feel tears in my eyes than to go into shock mode and feel numb.

 

[Abstract]

Hi balck dove,

I wanted to thank you for the thread as I am struggling a bit with this in recent weeks.
I had one thing happen to me about 25 years ago and I thought I felt nothing about it.
The truth of it was that I was very avoidant with anything to do with it and had never once even thought about it.

Very suddenly last year I became so triggered with it and had flashbacks and was a mess.
I am trying to deal with it in t but at this point have gone numb (but to a much lessor level) again and I really don't understand it.

I am hoping to learn something more on here. I have heard the term "emotional numbing" but don't fully understand the concept.

If you think of the incident do you have any impulse to think of something else or escape it?

 

[Powder]

Hi Abstract,
I would say with my early trauma, the word escape is right on. I can feel everything in me want to run onto any thought, anything, to get away from it. This feels instinctive, like running from a predator. It is hard to let it sit there, and it's like a "skin crawling" feeling inside to allow myself to believe it actually happened in reality and it's not just a bad dream.

 

[mysihba]

Hi black dove and others,

I think emotional detachment and feeling numbed out is pretty common. I do not believe that means you have processed anything. More often it is an escape mechanism put into play so one does not have to deal with anything. Then the "problems" just get buried even deeper and the symptoms get worse.

EMDR was a great help to me. I think the fact that you get twinges of "feeling" mean you are making progress. "Feeling" hurts. We get tired of the pain and then get numb or disociate. The only way to get to the end is to process it all. One can't do that while in a state of numb. It hurts to allow oneself to let it all out, remember it etc. As Muse stated, it is better to "feel" something, than to be numb. Disociation at it's worst can end up as MPD or DID?.

As abstract mentioned, staying numb leads to burying things even deeper which leads to buried things popping out in the form of flashback, etc. that seemingly come from nowhere.

Better to dig in, get it all out, and know things will be far better because of it. This is a great place to work on that.

PS, PTSD is often mis-diagnosed as bi-polar, not to mention other disorders.

Welcome !

 

[Iam]

Welcome to the forum Black_Dove ;o)

I actually started therapy because of feeling numb to everything. I thought I had processed all the trauma and that it didn't effect me. Like you, I felt it was what it was and is in the past, no reason to dwell on it. I had a very tough time accessing emotions and was in therapy with a general therapist for a year before I was finally willing to accept his dx of PTSD. When I did he suggested I find a trauma therapist and try EMDR.

I believe my year with him (I still see him every week) prepared me to be open with the EMDR. My T spent a great deal of time having me create a safe place before tackling the traumas.

As Myshiba said, the fact that you are experiencing some physical sensations when doing EMDR means that you are starting to access the feelings associated with your truamas. I have to say that EMDR has been a very slow process for me, but it has really helped. Just a warning, when you do eventually open up and start feeling, it will probably be extremely intense so be prepared. I hope your T has taught you how to ground yourself and that you have practiced going to a safe place. That way when it has been a really tough session you can calm down before leaving.


Good luck, hang in there and welcome to the forum!

 

[black_dove]

To the forum moderator and all others - I apologize for the lack of capitalization! It is something that I do all of the time and have since I was very young, but I will not do that again here. I did not realize it is so difficult to read. :oops:

Thank you everyone for all of your responses. It is very encouraging to hear so much feedback and to know that others are going through very similar things.

Muse - I agree. I really, truly hate feeling so numbed out all of the time. I have read that numbing out one cluster of emotions shuts down the entire system; i.e, "throwing the baby out with the bathwater." I do have some emotions but as of now they are not truly connected with the trauma. Since beginning therapy I have had a few rage attacks (which are highly uncharacteristic of me!) and crying episodes, but they were triggered by current life events and totally blown out of proportion. Only now am I starting to realize that these seeming free-floating emotions aren't free-floating at all, and that I, too, am going to have to feel sad about these events. It's the grieving process that scares me. I don't want to feel what I perceive at this juncture to be non stop sadness...

Mysihba - Thank you! I'm glad to hear you got positive results from EMDR. I was totally skeptical until the first session, and the memory I am working on right now "moved." It has been frozen for years and years. This particular memory has been ongoing for two sessions, I'm guessing because it is so old and stuck. I never connected my current dissociative symptoms with any of the previous trauma I have experienced until this therapy. My therapist explained dissociation as being on a scale, and said that I have been, most likely, dissociating for almost my entire life, but now it's so normal to me I don't even recognize it. I do not have DID, but deal with feeling very 'split' and fragmented internally, and there have been times in my life when I act totally out of character for weeks to months only to "snap out of it" very suddenly and wonder, 'What was I thinking?' or 'That's just not who I am.' I am cognizant and aware the entire time, I don't lose time, but time does feel distorted - it feels 'sped up' or as if no time is passing at all. Then, when I look back, the experience feels hazy, fuzzy, and unreal. It is also harder to connect it to myself or make it feel like it was me who really did or said things. Does any of this resonate with you?

I don't want to get in to all of my anger about the current state of the MH system, insofar as I have dealt with it. Another post for another time, maybe, but suffice it to say that I spent many years under the impression I had a chemical imbalance or warped character and sought therapies and other medical help that did more harm than good.

Iam - I am glad to hear you also have had good experiences with EMDR. Also, I'm glad to know the process was slower for you, too. Everywhere I seem to hear or read that it's some miracle cure that works in only a few sessions, but that seems to be for maybe one-time adult trauma as opposed to long-term, chronic trauma. We have only had two actual EMDR sessions thus far (there were 4 before that which were just talking) and he commented that I am handling it well, but I am going to bring up the safe place grounding techniques you mentioned because that hasn't been mentioned as of yet. I do feel safe, as he instructed me I can stop anytime I feel I need to with a hand motion, or that I don't need to engage in EMDR a particular session if feeling too uncomfortable with it. I get the sense that I am in control of all of it and that has been relieving. I am worried about intense reactions though - I seem to now only have an emotional numbness or "fall-out" a day or two later, but remain perfectly "in control" through the entire session. Or should I say, I am probably just slightly dissociated the entire time...?

I have written a novel and I apologize for that, I will keep it much shorter in the future if this is too long. I have never been a part of this type of forum and it feels really great to be able to finally talk to others who get it.

Thanks again all for responding, and again I am sorry for the previous lack of grammar. :)

 

[black_dove]

To Abstract - I meant to respond to your question in the last post! When I think of the memories themselves I don't feel anything about them, one way or the other - these memories are like frozen snapshots in my head, so I can't say that I feel I do anything to avoid them. They don't feel connected to each other, either, or as if they are in a time line. I know the general ages I was in each of them but that is about it, they don't have a true beginning or end to them. It is not a 'fade to black', it is more of a curtain that just shut down and removed all of the information before or after the snapshot I have.

I don't go out of my way to think about them, either. The main thing I seem to struggle with are my current emotions in general, they are either out of control intense (disproportionate to a given situation) or so numb that I feel like the walking dead, I feel no love, or joy, or hope, I don't feel alive, I can't be inspired or happy. This cycles like a yo-yo, much too fast to be considered a typical depression. And it seems to cycle in response to my environment. I'm guessing triggers of some kind, but I haven't identified them yet.

However, I am highly avoidant of speaking about anything relating to the incidents themselves. I either joke, change the subject, minimize it ('everyone goes through something like that', 'my parents did the best they could,' 'its all in the past,' 'i'm a loser for even caring about this now.') or intellectualize it in some way, or degrade myself. I do everything in my power it seems to avoid actually feeling anything associated with it.

A good example of recently being triggered to feel something associated with it was my therapists comment last session that I had, in all likelihood, done absolutely nothing to cause my parents to treat me the way they did or do the things they did. I started crying and got really, really angry afterward and wanted to leave. I almost did leave, in fact, but took a smoke break instead.

So yes...I suppose I do avoid, then! I hope that helped you understand emotional numbing a bit more...thanks for helping me to verbalize this and understand it...

 

[Iam]

To I am worried about intense reactions though - I seem to now only have an emotional numbness or "fall-out" a day or two later, but remain perfectly "in control" through the entire session. Or should I say, I am probably just slightly dissociated the entire time...?

Black-Dove....I think having fallout a day or too later is pretty common. When I first started regular therapy it would take a few days to hit me. I was in control most of the times during sessions and found that very frustrating. It may be a form of dissociation, certainly separation and avoidance. I did dissociate briefly during my last EMDR session. It took both my T and I by surprise because I was actually doing very well so she wasn't making the "grounding statements" that she usually does. Anger is an emotion that I have only tapped into twice during 18 months of therapy. I am terrified of anger, though I do get angry occasionally at home. Anyway, this was one of the two times I felt a tiny bit of anger, she wanted me to focus on it. Next thing I knew was fading out and hearing her calling my name. I guess that is a good example of why grounding exercises are so important. They need to be practiced in and out of session so you can bring yourself back into the present relatively easy. The safe place is important as well. There has been 2 times when we were at the end of session and my suds level was extremely high and I was starting to lose it. My T had me scoop the "young ego state" up and take her to my safe place. There is a thread somewhere in the Therapy section on younger ego states. I'll see if I can find it for you. That is also a key component in complex trauma therapy.