Meninist Movement

[Kas_Can_Fly]

Misandry = The hatred or dislike of men.
Misogyny = The hatred of dislike of women.
Feminism = Believing men, women and all forms of non binary genders have the same rights - we're all people, we should all be treated equally. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just like some men can be nice people and some men are abusive and some men are abusive but claim to be nice people. Some misandrists claim to be feminists and cause a stupid amount of damage to an otherwise flawless cause and infect it for everyone. Does this mean that the term feminist is broken? Or does it just mean that misandrists are unpleasant people? To me that's basic abuser tactics 101.

There's actually a huge amount of internalised gender hate amongst women between women e.g: I'm not like other girls because they're bitchy, they like **insert stereotypical gendered product** and I prefer more male activities and so on and so on. This affects men and women because it's these same views that perpetuate that women are/should behave a certain way, also say that men shouldn't behave a certain way e.g: expressing their emotions, taking good care of themselves, engaging more in a family type role.

In the same way that internalised misogyny causes women and men to stereotype and thus perpetuate their own stigma and thereby oppressing themselves. Saying that Feminism has a lot of negativity attached to it is only true if you include abusive misandrists - which is ridiculous. A lot of people who actively don't believe in equal rights for women attach a lot of untrue information presented as if facts to continue oppressing both people of all genders. Sometimes it's so clear it hurts, other times they'll throw anything hoping that sooner or later something will stick. What really needs to be done - is outing the misandrists and untangling internalised and externalised misogynistic mantra - then you have what true feminism is - believing that people regardless of gender should be entitled to equal rights. Everyone - men, women, trans, agender, bigender, genderfluid, oppressed, un-oppressed or privileged should be a "feminist", unless they are psychopathic because all the "movement" wants is equality. It wants all humans to have the same rights as all the other humans.

The "Meninist" movement - from what I've seen at least is a complete and utter joke. It's not even straight up misogyny, it's sulking because someone doesn't get exactly what they want, in exactly the way they want. It does not want equal rights, improved rights, a maintenence of rights or even a regression of rights - it just wants to throw all the toys out of the cot and the have the right to complain. And the things it wants to complain about are ridiculous - e.g not having to look at women of different backgrounds/heights weight is about as laughable as complaining you never want to see clouds.

I don't take it seriously, to be honest I don't see it as any kind of threat or serious impact on anything. It seems like a troll-type joke and I think too many people are rising to it - don't bother, it's not worth your time or theirs. As the saying goes: Don't feed the trolls.

 

[Kas_Can_Fly]

It's actually so stupidly simple a toddler could understand it. Any confusion is unnecessary and should not be further perpetuated - anything that has been said should be moved on from. All people deserve the same human rights, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability, wealth or any other dividing factors - all people are people. Any argument is invalid. I don't understand how anyone is still fighting or somehow not understanding this.

So you're saying Person A is equal to Person B even though their genitals are different? Yes. Just in the same way that people with penises are all equal even though their anatomy differs. People with vaginas are also equal. People with no genitals are equal and people with more than one set of genitals are equal. Unless you're saying that literally the person with the biggest penis should be the ruler of all humanity. **Sigh** Better get the rulers out, I really thought we'd moved on from this.

But that person is gay and they'll never have a child, so surely I'm better than them? No - you both are human, you both have the same worth.
But I'm richer and provide more to society through taxes and I have achieved great things with my life. Congratulations, but you both have a skeleton.
But their skeleton is deformed and cannot function as well. That makes them no less of a person - their species is still human.
But they look different to me. Unless you have an identical twin - so does everyone else, get over yourself.
But they believe things that clearly aren't true/are different to my beliefs. They are still human, have a right to live harming no one, with whatever beliefs they desire.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

@somerandomguy,

Your black and white logic is screwed up. You think that because you were abused by a woman that patriarchy doesn't exist (at least not in your world, as you refuse to use the word). And you feel disrespected because someone used the "P" word? Honestly, you have no idea what its like to be a female in this world, and I'm laughing at the idea that someone at the top of the totem pole gets his panties in a bunch because someone calls it AS IT IS and uses the patriarchy word. You say that she who used the "P" word would be disinclined to see any men's issues.....simply because she is describing the current state of society and doesn't use "alternative" words as to not offend a man? This is typical behavior, the have's not understanding the plight of the have not's. It happens with race, it happens with religion, it happens with sexual orientation. But in American society, its more often the white male who cries foul when something, ANYTHING doesn't go his way. For every one thing that is a "poor straight white male" issue, there are 50 other issues that other segments of society have to deal with, but said male only focuses on the ONE thing he doesn't have, because he doesn't realize what others deal with on a daily basis. Meninism? A joke! Men's Rights Activists? Another joke! (Yeah, we had a thread about those people before, too.)

I've already stated I'm not a feminist but believe in equal rights for all. I just laugh when I see the segment of society that has always had it all now getting upset that another segment of society may have an unequal advantage in certain issues. One area that comes to mind is with raising children. Yes, women have typically had an advantage, but do you know why? Child rearing was typically seen as "women's work" as it is domestic in nature. Oh, believe you me, if it was historically seen as having a higher status, men would have the upper hand in this one! But it has been a woman's "job".....until recently when men decided that they wanted custody, too. So now you have all these men running around crying foul because of a social construct created (YES, CREATED) by a patriarchal society. Oh, isn't THAT convenient!?! Yeah, you don't want "women's" work until it suits your desires. Please.

 

[Ronin]

@somerandomguy: I'm gender queer, originally from a society with super strict gender roles / upheld traditional roles, who's spent most of her life in jobs classed as 'fairly masculine'. I really don't think I'm inclined toward 'men hate'. Criticizing a system doesn't a hate of a gender make. In fact deconstructing of anything, social wise, isn't hate. To label it so is a cognitive distortion.

Edited to add: To say a group you're a part of is harmful or problematic in X ways in the long term to another group, doesn't mean you're personally an abuser of whichever flavor. It simply means you need to work on the ways you go around the world to not *become* one, and there is stuff in your life you won't have to struggle with because of *who you are*. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[somerandomguy]

@Solara: I choose to say nothing in the face of your hostility to me as a man. You have made your anger towards men quite clear; nothing I could say could possibly change it.

 

[somerandomguy]

To say a group you're a part of is harmful or problematic in X ways in the long term to another group, doesn't mean you're personally an abuser of whichever flavor. It simply means you need to work on the ways you go around the world to not *become* one, and there is stuff in your life you won't have to struggle with because of *who you are*. Nothing more nothing less.

This sure sounds like you're giving a free pass to abusers of a non-majority group. Was it OK that my ex-wife abused me, a man, because she's a woman? If I tell you that she abused me because she hated men, does that then make her abuse a noble act?

 

[Changing4Best]

Just a few thoughts in reply to various replies here:

I appreciate it when any gender does something nice for me, like opening door for me, and I enjoy opening doors for folks in general, men or women. It is jut a nice thing to do.

I did not report being raped several times. I was afraid of the man, also it was a boyfriend who raped me and that is harder to prove. This site has helped me a lotto overcome the trauma of that time in my life.

As to meminists, I really don't understand what or who they are. I think gender rights in general is a serious subject, and should not be joked about. But then there will always be jokers in every crowd.

 

[Ronin]

This sure sounds like you're giving a free pass to abusers of a non-majority group. Was it OK that my ex-wife abused me, a man, because she's a woman? If I tell you that she abused me because she hated men, does that then make her abuse a noble act?

Does it *sure* sound that. Because I'm really not seeing where you're inferring so from, let alone that certainty.
Abuse is abuse. Problem of wider dynamics of power which work in certain set ways and have so for ages, that need reflection & change. And it's that systemic level that's problematic as all hell and helps coverup & excuses on a personal level.
Different level of issue, & intersecting problems.

TL;DR your ex would be entitled to hate men in privilege dynamics & simply feelings, one can't dictate anyone else's emotions. That still doesn't give her a right to abuse you or anyone. Apples and oranges.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

@somerandomguy,
you couldn't be more off if you even TRIED! Anytime a woman says anything negative about a man, she is labeled a "man hater". Well, I hate to break it to you, but ALL of my friends are men.....GASP! I know, I know....

PS my attitude has nothing to do with your gender or the fact that you have a schlong. Anyone and everyone here on the forum knows I don't discriminate against anyone in terms of my sharp tongue!

I came back to add this.....

You are extrapolating the abuse suffered by ONE woman to an entire gender. I've been there, and I'm STILL dealing with it. Fortunately I'm able to see where my issue lies and work on not taking out my fear of a few women (my abusers) out on every single woman that I know. I honestly feel bad for you since you've had to create an entire construct of your mind in order to deal with the fact that ONE woman abused you. I get it. I know that women on women or women on man abuse is not believed as readily as man on women abuse. Women are seen as the kind and gentle nurturers of society, so it is hard for others to believe that women can be so vicious. But, until you learn to isolate this abuse to that one woman, you will continue to blame an entire gender rather than putting the blame where blame is due...ON HER! Until you are able to accept that it was just one woman, and that it was her fault alone, you will live in a world of fear where all women are "dangerous". Your defensiveness is quite evident as you go into "strike out" mode whenever someone says something that is critical of men in general. I advise you to work on this stressor/trigger or else it is likely to keep you alone for the rest of your life.

 

[ms spock]

However it certainly isn't a feminist issue, either, as feminists don't advocate for male victims/survivors of DV.

That is not my practice or my experience.

 

[somerandomguy]

Here's what I don't understand (and then I will drop it): by well-established feminist thought, it is impossible for a women to be a misandrist because she is a constant victim of the Patriarchy. Men are typically automatic misogynists by virtue of their gender. In this kind of power dynamic, it totally seems to me that anti-male abuse would be seen as a noble anti-male act by women. If fact, by many groups, it is. I promise you that.

As a matter of fact, the majority of my female therapists have been women. Not one of them took my DV seriously. While other male therapists have also minimized my DV, my current T - who is actually helping me - is a male. Perhaps this is just bad luck, but I don't think men OR women take female-on-male DV seriously. The feminists I have interacted with certainly don't and are happy to tell me that I am sidetracking the REAL issue, which is "typical" male-on-female DV, because women are oppressed. It seems like all personal experiences count if you're a woman, but the minute I try to add my voice, I am shouted down, told that I am "mansplaining," etc. Online feminists are not a friendly bunch.

When I take my kids to the park and they run away to play with other kids, why am I given the stinkeye by the moms there? Why am I automatically treated like a pedophile? Why is it when I bring this up with women, I am shouted down and told to "man up?" Why, when I express my anger about this, am I told that it's not appropriate to discuss because women have it so much worse and therefore my anger over my own personal experience isn't justified?

I can't wait to be inevitably shouted down here (as a man), to be told that my feelings don't count, because you all will simply prove my point, and then we'll have it all to see on the forum for all time. This is equality? This is gender egalitarianism? No, this is bullshit.

 

[Ronin]

@somerandomguy, but you see, that's a whole different talk from the discussion of misogyny and what not; we're to the question of abuse culture and victim silencing and what not. And it's not right that you (and other male or masculine vics) have to suffer so much, that there aren't spaces to reasonably and safely discuss, shelters and so on. Definitely not right. But it's still a different question, even if related, from that of societal treatment of women.