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Dom Violence Narcissists Mess Up Your Mind... Freaking Out
- Post starter sun seeker
- Start date
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@sun seeker :hug:
The inner critic - a normal child's automatic response when bad things happen is to assume that it's because they themselves are bad
IIRC Pete Walker has some good resources for dealing with the shite that our inner critic sticks to us.
I've written "normal child" because narcs and psychopaths externalise the criticism on to others, and that allows them to avoid facing the possibility that they are not omnipotent, that they are not G-d* they instead parasitize others into acting towards them as though they were G-d. (at least one of the gods of the Old Testament (there were many local, family and, personal ideas of gods, that got lumped together under one name) was created in the image of man: a needy, narcissistic middle eastern dictator).
In my limited experience, a skilled narc will use shades of grey, black and white are too easy for us to interpret, doubt and especially self doubt is much more destructive on us.
In dog training, a reward every time is not supposed to be as effective for reinforcing behaviours as an occassional reward, which forces the dog to excell in order to get that reward, rather than it learning to get sloppy, knowing that if it goes through the motions, it will get that reward regardless.
So it seems to be with a narc.
The one that I left home 3 months ago to avoid (and I'm still living with friends), seemed to revel in watching me squirm in doubt and confusion, wondering whether there was abuse coming this time or not - the stress of wondering will he? - won't he?
He was the guest of my Father and brother, whom he has ingratiated himself with, then, behind their backs abuses and bullies everyone who helps them, perhaps knowing that for the sake of good relations with my Father and Brother, his victims won't say anything... He's about 40 years old, but always has a pretty, trophy girlfriend about half that age with him (they never last long - hopefully they soon see him for what he is).
For a skilled narc - everything is deniable, and you are made to feel like the guilty party for having doubts about them and their words and actions in the gas lit fog that they spread. one possibility that might work for dealing with the mess they leave in our heads, is to use shades of grey in interpreting them.
Is their leaving that ambiguity in their words and actions a darker or a lighter shade of grey? - I'd tend towards saying it's darker - that it tends towards abuse, and that if there's a pattern of it, then yes, it probably is meant to be abusive.
We never have perfect knowledge, and we are never perfect ourselves. perhaps with some acceptance of that, we can stop our inner critic beating the crap out of us in its search for perfection.
:hug:
--------------------------
*There are some poems by Karl Marx, from when he was in his early twenties, raging that he wanted to destroy the universe - because it wasn't made by him...
The inner critic - a normal child's automatic response when bad things happen is to assume that it's because they themselves are bad
IIRC Pete Walker has some good resources for dealing with the shite that our inner critic sticks to us.
I've written "normal child" because narcs and psychopaths externalise the criticism on to others, and that allows them to avoid facing the possibility that they are not omnipotent, that they are not G-d* they instead parasitize others into acting towards them as though they were G-d. (at least one of the gods of the Old Testament (there were many local, family and, personal ideas of gods, that got lumped together under one name) was created in the image of man: a needy, narcissistic middle eastern dictator).
In my limited experience, a skilled narc will use shades of grey, black and white are too easy for us to interpret, doubt and especially self doubt is much more destructive on us.
In dog training, a reward every time is not supposed to be as effective for reinforcing behaviours as an occassional reward, which forces the dog to excell in order to get that reward, rather than it learning to get sloppy, knowing that if it goes through the motions, it will get that reward regardless.
So it seems to be with a narc.
The one that I left home 3 months ago to avoid (and I'm still living with friends), seemed to revel in watching me squirm in doubt and confusion, wondering whether there was abuse coming this time or not - the stress of wondering will he? - won't he?
He was the guest of my Father and brother, whom he has ingratiated himself with, then, behind their backs abuses and bullies everyone who helps them, perhaps knowing that for the sake of good relations with my Father and Brother, his victims won't say anything... He's about 40 years old, but always has a pretty, trophy girlfriend about half that age with him (they never last long - hopefully they soon see him for what he is).
For a skilled narc - everything is deniable, and you are made to feel like the guilty party for having doubts about them and their words and actions in the gas lit fog that they spread. one possibility that might work for dealing with the mess they leave in our heads, is to use shades of grey in interpreting them.
Is their leaving that ambiguity in their words and actions a darker or a lighter shade of grey? - I'd tend towards saying it's darker - that it tends towards abuse, and that if there's a pattern of it, then yes, it probably is meant to be abusive.
We never have perfect knowledge, and we are never perfect ourselves. perhaps with some acceptance of that, we can stop our inner critic beating the crap out of us in its search for perfection.
:hug:
--------------------------
*There are some poems by Karl Marx, from when he was in his early twenties, raging that he wanted to destroy the universe - because it wasn't made by him...
@sun seeker I think what he said is not as important as how he said it. you perceived it to be a threat on you life, and most likely it was. Was it a serious threat, or just another manipulative tool? I don't know, but the fact that he took you and showed you the place tells me he was, at least, considering it.
So, don't doubt yourself, or second guess yourself, this guy sounds dangerous, and you are wise to have no contact with him.
So, don't doubt yourself, or second guess yourself, this guy sounds dangerous, and you are wise to have no contact with him.
More than anything narcs hate the light being shone on them. They will do anything to shut down those who have the flashlight down. Discredit them, call them crazy, threaten them - you know the drill, I can tell. The light is their enemy.
You don't need to tell anyone BUT don't lie to yourself. You know what they are. You know what they do.
@sun seeker have you jotted down the thoughts and feelings that are coming to you - but haven't shared here, so that you can get back to them to interpret them, even if they are slippery?
E
ellabella
I have been living with a narcissist for 20 yrs. I would recommend you google narcissist and read them all.... There are some really good sites with really good explanations. It will explain so much to you and help you see it isn't You, it is him....My husband made me believe I was crazy. He would change things I said or totally deny I said them. He tried to change my memories. So much so that I thought I was going crazy. He had my family and friends believing I was crazy, bi polar, emotional.... my doctors have repeatedly told me over the last 20 yrs I am none of the above. He took out a restraining order on me with all lies. They can just go file a petition and make up whatever falsehoods they want.... He is a pathological lier. I had a hard time comprehending the extent of his lies and the stories he would create to cover the lies because I always stood on telling the truth. It has taken me at least 4 years and I am still working on, getting my self worth and self esteem back. He also cheated more then once. I got married for life, but after 20 yrs of mental, verbal and physical abuse, the lying, cheating and betraying my trust and confidence, I said Enough is Enough and I left. I waited til the kids were grown to leave. It wasn't easy and I had to start anew at 50 yrs old, but the freedom of not having someone tear me down daily or curse at me or scream at me or make me feel worthless or crazy is Priceless.... I have talked to numerous counselors over the yrs and honestly the Internet has helped me more then the councelors. There is plenty of info online to help You work on You. Help you be Strong and Fierce and Beautiful; Happiness comes from within, but it sure helps when you don't have some jerk putting you down everyday.
- Post starter
- #20
sun seeker
Diamond Member
Thank you so much everyone. There is a lot here to digest and I will work on it slowly. I will do some research on narcissists, for sure. And talk to my therapist about this... it's just there is so much to work on in an hour a week it's hard to know what to make a priority, when I am in almost chronic crisis mode in the present it is hard to find time to work on the past.
I especially appreciated the comments about shades of grey. That's what it all is, murky and confusing as anything. I realize he got me at a low point when I was weak, and took advantage of that, and also that the neglect and abuse in my past made me easy prey for someone who could be so charming and attentive when he wanted to be. I've always realized that much. But there are a lot of shades of grey in the rest of it. I feel so guilty about some things he manipulated me into. Even though I know I was being manipulated, it doesn't mean I didn't do them. For instance, there were times he pushed me to ask my parents for money, which we needed because he simultaneously wouldn't let me work (unless it was a project he was in charge of) and he himself refused to do any work he considered beneath his dignity, and almost everything was beneath his dignity even if the alternative was going hungry. So the choice was between incurring his wrath, going hungry, or asking for help, and I often chose the latter. I can't see ever being able to pay it back because my symptoms have gotten to the point where it is hard to work enough even to make ends meet for myself. So I feel guilty every time I think about that, and it makes it incredibly complicated to set limits with my mother now or to work on my feelings about the trauma in my childhood, a lot of which has to do with how she treated me. She's helped me so much, then and since. She has also taken me beyond the point of devastation and despair and can trigger me like no one else. It's all like an impossibly tangled ball of yarn.
I especially appreciated the comments about shades of grey. That's what it all is, murky and confusing as anything. I realize he got me at a low point when I was weak, and took advantage of that, and also that the neglect and abuse in my past made me easy prey for someone who could be so charming and attentive when he wanted to be. I've always realized that much. But there are a lot of shades of grey in the rest of it. I feel so guilty about some things he manipulated me into. Even though I know I was being manipulated, it doesn't mean I didn't do them. For instance, there were times he pushed me to ask my parents for money, which we needed because he simultaneously wouldn't let me work (unless it was a project he was in charge of) and he himself refused to do any work he considered beneath his dignity, and almost everything was beneath his dignity even if the alternative was going hungry. So the choice was between incurring his wrath, going hungry, or asking for help, and I often chose the latter. I can't see ever being able to pay it back because my symptoms have gotten to the point where it is hard to work enough even to make ends meet for myself. So I feel guilty every time I think about that, and it makes it incredibly complicated to set limits with my mother now or to work on my feelings about the trauma in my childhood, a lot of which has to do with how she treated me. She's helped me so much, then and since. She has also taken me beyond the point of devastation and despair and can trigger me like no one else. It's all like an impossibly tangled ball of yarn.
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And they are so convincing that everyone believes them. That is what makes these types extremely dangerous.
Spartanlifecoach has some really good videos on youtube about narcissists. I am not affiliated in any with with him but found his information easy to digest.
- Post starter
- #22
sun seeker
Diamond Member
That's why I never fought to get back any of what he took from me, even though it means never being able to pay back my mother, hence the complexity of my guilt wrapped in fear. We tried writing him to ask for the money back, adjusted for inflation, and he ignored the letter. Fortunately my mother gets what he is and is very understanding about that part of it. I am afraid if I got him too angry he would find a way to take away what I have painstakingly built for myself in the years since leaving him. At first I was afraid he would try, and succeed, in taking our daughter away from me, and there is good reason to think that because he did exactly that with one of his children from another relationship. Not that he would have given her a life that was better in any way, quite the reverse. With her strong will and it being in his nature to demand absolute compliance, I'm sure he would have abused her, as well as giving her a life of hardship. That's also why I never asked for, or got, a penny in child support. She's grown up now so that's not a worry, but I am still afraid of what he could do, after all these years.
Again, anyone in a relationship with someone like this: leave now. It affects your life permanently.
D
Deleted member 29961
If this hasn't been done yet, I'd like to second it.
@sun seeker What you said in the other post is the truth, your doubt did not creep in till after the fear of reprisal set in. remember, narcissists are master manipulators, you even tell us in your post how he has conditioned you for this response. You do not need to confront the narcissist, only face the fear and remove it. once the fear is gone the doubt will fade and you will know the truth.
by the way, you have already taken the first step in facing your fear, you started this post, congratulations! and keep up the good work!
In the first few years we have no feeling of separateness from out mother especially. It is not her/me - she is our 'I'. And through normal development our parent is supposed to allow us separateness. Parents who have an agenda or who are irresponsible or a personality disorder or whatever, don't allow that separateness to happen. We don't ever become 'I'.
And I believe that we carry an almost primal wounding of 'I am bad' because at that time 'they' were 'I' and 'they' were bad. Therefore, our entire lives - it is always 'I' that is bad when ANY 'they' is.
I think before we can tackle any of this we need to realize that 'they' are not 'I'. And I have no idea if this makes ANY sense at all to anyone else but me.
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