Need suggestions from self harmers - my 11 year old niece just started hurting herself

[cece]

The system wouldn't let me edit after my last post. After reading more about your family dynamic and the father's role, I apologize for implying your sister might be the problem. That said, no parent should ever minimize or downplay a child self injuring for any reason. As for the father: If he is behaving in a way that neglects, my emotional abuse assessment stands. Could be niece is suffering from wanting an absent father in her life. This is hard, wanting a parent's love, affection and attention and not getting it. Only you can say if this is the case and if so, you will be better able to help your niece.

 

[Friday]

She feels hollow and empty because the core of her, her emotional content, is being negated.

There are a lot of different reasons people can feel hollow and empty inside. If you’ve never even met this girl, proclaiming the reason she feels hollow and empty is this one thing... and then to further declare it’s the result of bad parenting at a minimum, and probable abuse... is frankly insane.

Furthermore? To be adamant that seeking help for a symptom which is classic ADHD, is actually ignoring the symptom entirely? Makes about as much sense as saying seeing a trauma therapist for PTSD is ignoring how what a flashback IS is really a cry for attention.

***

Every symptom on the planet has multiple sources and causes.

Just because disorders share symptoms & coping mechanisms, doesn’t mean that they all have the same cause. Case in point (@Freida I was going to be mentioning this later, but since I’m putting it up, here)

• Self harm with PTSD? Tends to be about numbing/feeling better, and control, and punishment, and trauma re-enactment. It’s a hugely difficult & complicated coping mechanism to deal with.
• Self harm with ADHD? Tends to be self medicating. The adrenaline rush in place of a stimulant. You can nix most kinds of ADHD self harm overnight by giving a kid a coke or Mountain Dew or cup of coffee & sending them out to play. Stimulant plus physical activity. Voila. About as easy as things come.

• Disassociation (including emotional numbing) is a symptom of PTSD, and the vast majority of the time it needs to be negated (limiting flashbacks, depersonalization, and derealization as close to nil as possible).
• Disassociation is is core component of ADHD; it’s both what allows for hyperfocus to happen, and it’s a necessary break from overactive senses. You want the disassociation present, but also need to learn to manage the when/where/how long. (So you aren’t cheerfully typing away on a computer whilst the fire alarm is blazing away, after 10 hours of not eating/drinking/or peeing... so when the firefighter shakes you out of it, you’re racing outside, not to the loo, because OMFG I have to pee! >>> And a thousand other variations on theme. Whether it’s getting so involved in one thing you miss everything else, or running your feet to ribbons, or, or, or).

It’s a very very very ADHD thing to lose your emotions for a spell... especially if you’ve been having a series of emotional blow outs, which for ADHD is bread and butter. Emotions don’t fade with ADHD (unless you’re on certain kinds of medication, and then that’s super weird, although apparently it’s how most people feel feelings) but come on full force, and stay there, until they are replaced with something else. BIG emotions are baseline. Always. Then? Enter hormones, enter the closest an ADHD person will ever get to bipolar “rapid cycling” & “mixed episodes” (it’s close, but it’s not quite there, because ADHD peeps can learn emotional monitoring and regulation, bipolar people can’t), enter tantrums & full force meltdowns of epic proportions, enter? ...emotions simply shutting off for awhile. <<< Not because it’s a cry for help, or emotional neglect, or bad parenting. Just because they’ve been on too big, for too long, and you need a break from them & a chance to reset.

...

Do I know for a fact that this little girl’s Classic ADHD symptoms are being caused by her ADHD? Pfft. Of course not.

I think it far more likely, however that her mother & her therapist -who both have real & serious access- are correct about her diagnosed condition being the cause of something incredibly common with that condition... than random assertstions of abuse and neglect and attention seeking.

 

[bellbird]

We are thinking about me talking with niece next weekend about me having ptsd and what that looks like in my life. I can give her the kid friendly version and maybe help her see that even if things don't work in your head like you want them too you can still be ok.

I love this idea!
Let us know how it goes :hug:

 

[Freida]

Thanks all for your thoughts! And keep them coming!

That said, no parent should ever minimize

No worries -- - She's not minimzing - shes worried she will make it worse because neice is so embarrased about it. This is the first time she's done it as far as we can tell - and just happened lasts night. She was already set up for counseling so that's in place. I just want to help reassure sis that shes on the right track.

It’s a very very very ADHD thing to lose your emotions for a spell... especially if you’ve been having a series of emotional blow outs, which for ADHD is bread and butter. Emotions don’t fade with ADHD (unless you’re on certain kinds of medication, and then that’s super weird, although apparently it’s how most people feel feelings) but come on full force, and stay there, until they are replaced with something else. BIG emotions are baseline. Always. Then? Enter hormones, enter the closest an ADHD person will ever get to bipolar “rapid cycling” & “mixed episodes” (it’s close, but it’s not quite there, because ADHD peeps can learn emotional monitoring and regulation, bipolar people can’t), enter tantrums & full force meltdowns of epic proportions, enter? ...emotions simply shutting off for awhile. <<< Not because it’s a cry for help, or emotional neglect, or bad parenting. Just because they’ve been on too big, for too long, and you need a break from them & a chance to reset.

This is brilliant! Sis has been googling "kids who cut" all freeking day and is losing her mind. I think this will really help her get grounded back into the possibility that it's part of her ADHD and not that she has some kind of huge mental issue or tumor or is going to kill herself in the next 24 hours or all the other worst case scenarios she is imagining.

 

[littleoc]

Cutting can get out of control quickly. I’ve seen it happen, and am sure you’re also aware of that.

What I did was get therapy. My new therapist brought me to a hospital where I could safely say what was going on. I was cutting in secret places, thighs and stomach, to hide it.

When my little brother started cutting, no one acted like they cared. They ignored him saying he was trying to get attention. He nearly died.

Point is, the best thing is to show support, to show people care, and to stop it before it becomes addictive or the only coping mechanism. What she’s doing is self medicating. So, a therapist is what she needs. To find good coping skills, to figure out what’s bothering her (school is hard, childhood is hard, both are harder when depressed), and to get her the help she needs.

Assuming it’s ADHD is not a great idea. Could be an executive function disorder or something else. Doctor should be involved for sure. (Sorry If you already discussed that! I am afraid to read every word in this thread.)

So sorry this is going on for her. I started self harming at ten. Reason was that I hated myself. Due to abuse and bullying. I managed to figure out bullies and they left me alone, but not everybody will figure it out. It’s possible there’s no abuse going on, but just neurochemical things or inability to emotionally regulate, but it never hurts to check.

Best to you. So sorry to hear about this :hug: If you need more advice, let us know.

I will warn, though, that by the time anyone know about my cutting, I was addicted. I replaced it with over exercise, then with another self harm mechanism, then other. You might be seeing some evidence of that in your neice right now, so watch for future new bad coping mechanism.

And also, kids in my middle school were dramatic middle schoolers. Some kids thought cutting was cool. There were kids bonded over it. Encouraging other kids who were otherwise “normal.” I wondered about this while you were discussing that she said her pencil wasn’t working.

Best to you and yours

 

[Freida]

Assuming it’s ADHD is not a great idea. Could be an executive function disorder or something else. Doctor should be involved for sure.

The ADHD came from her pediatrition a couple years ago. Then last week she started her with a clinic that includes all sorts of doctors and therapists and holistic stuff and will build her an individual plan over the next month or so once all the test results are in.

You might be seeing some evidence of that in your neice right now, so watch for future new bad coping mechanism.

Good to know!!!

Some kids thought cutting was cool. There were kids bonded over it. Encouraging other kids who were otherwise “normal.

ok -- that is terrifying.

 

[Abstract]

Where would you guess she is at when it comes to identity issues? Emotion regulation is an obvious one in context of this and the ADHD. Adolencnce not obly tend to be intense because of hormonal stuff but identity stuff comes to the fore. How able is she to name and identify her emotions and know herself. As much as any 11 year old can. Although self harm can be very complex and diverse (even my own is diverse within myself) these can be common issues for many and if addressed can often help. Not sure if she has been given any aids expressing her thoughts or emotional states. You are a good aunt and its wonderful your sister cares and is doing what she can

 

[Freida]

Not sure if she has been given any aids expressing her thoughts or emotional states.

She's always struggled with her words when it comes to how she feels - hence the massive tantrums when she was younger. She went to a therapist last year when she was diagnosed that she really liked who talked to her about emotions and how to name them and gave her some really good coping techniques. But then they said she didn't need to come back - which was odd. Then as hormones started kicking in she ramped WAY up - which led to the new clinic appointments.

You are a good aunt and its wonderful your sister cares and is doing what she can

Thanks!

 

[Friday]

Dead Link Removed <<< This book : You Mean I’m Not Lazy Stupid or Crazy ?!? By Kate Kelly & Peggy Ramundo >>> It’s nominally written for adults with ADHD, but the benefit of that -as a parent- is that you can actually see how the disorder arcs over the years, and how coping mechanisms develop, etc. Great blend of good science & personal stories.

ADDitude <<< This website.

 

[Freida]

@Friday Thank you!

 

[LuckiLee]

I'm so sorry to hear about this @Freida. This is the niece who never really bonded with her mom (even as a baby)? Could be more than ADHD. No?.... My friends daughter did this years ago. My friends were going through a divorce at the time, they moved to a new city and she was being bullied at school. (girls can be evil) Then add puberty. Oh Lord! My friend minimized everything and it went on far too long. It sounds like your niece is in good hands. I think after you share with her she'll open up to you too. Good luck Aunt Freida.

 

[Nessa7]

I really like the idea of you talking to your niece about your experience. It would be really helpful to show your niece that it is okay to talk about mental health stuff. It sounds like your sister and niece are communicating well about this, but it is also good to talk to someone that can share about similar stuff that they've gone through. Unfortunately, at her age, she's going to be seeing people support self-harm as a coping method, and I think it would be great to have an adult she knows model healthier behaviors.