New Join Doc B

[OldDoorGunner]

I'm having a really tough time right now with VA therapy because I'm having to alter some details of oversees trauma because a few of those could bite me and my fellow brothers in the ass hard. Hopefully the burden of those events doesn't hinder my recovery. I'm personally destroyed by the whole war. The corps armed us to the teeth threw us into I giant deadly grey area and gave us black and white rules. When we stayed on the white side we started taking casualties and that made us cross over the line to black and our own system wants to fry us at that point. We lost 4 marines due to the fact that they could have prevented it but R.O.E. said keep your finger off the trigger and your thumb up your ***. If you don't mind me asking how would you recommend I process the things I can't say? This winter has been terrible for some reason and I'm using it for motivation to seek help I just don't always know where to turn for what. Thank you for the reply

Doc, the good thing is your going to a Vet Center. They are the illegitimate bastard step child of the VA. LOL As far as I know, thay don't share much of any of your info with the VA. As to your question "how would you recommend I process the things I can't say?" If you are talking about a counselor? I would try to just use generalization, they don't need to know what was white or black!!!!

One of the things that you need to know is, you are NOT the only one that has had to cross the line into the black in combat. I'll bet, there are a lot of guys that have do so right here on this board. I know I am, most of the work I did was black! But I was under orders to work the dark side........

As Sarg said, "they have info and therapies they didn't have back in my day" Most of us Nam guys have been dealing with the Beast for 40+ years........and I am sorry to say we are still looking for answers....Know this, I am a lot better today than a few years ago. It just takes time and hard work brother......

Congrats on the new baby, Doc.......

J R

 

[JennyMac]

"One of the things that you need to know is, you are NOT the only one that has had to cross the line into the black in combat. I'll bet, there are a lot of guys that have do so right here on this board. I know I am, most of the work I did was black! But I was under orders to work the dark side............"

I watched arty smoke fired into a group of people... White fire everywhere, but I have not told anyone till now...I would never tell the shrink, don't see the point I guess. I understand the black...most of my job was dark in nature and silent by decree so to speak...but hey it makes for some awkward silences at therapy :whistle:

 

[Doc B1]

J R
Thank you for all your input. That is a lot of good advice. And thank you for the congrats. I have 5 months until the baby is here and I'm trying to be in good of a place as I can before then. Also thank you for your service in NAM. My ladies dad was a marine there and I frequently go to Vietnam Vets MC benefit rides. I have tons of respect for all of you for the lack of treatment and support you came home to and still persevered. For me personally I don't want to find answers such as why I am this way or why I can't make it stop. It's as big of part of me as my skin now and I want to learn to live beside it not with it and I won't even try to put it behind me but if I can reach the point where it's not owning me and I can put it aside to enjoy some beauty in life I will be happy. Thanks again and much respect

 

[Doc B1]

Jenny,
I totally understand how you feel. I was involved in some terrible things because they were what I needed to do for me and my brothers to come home. And sometimes mistakes get made and unfortunately in combat it usually results in injury and death. I couldn't go to 4 of my marines memorials because I knew how preventable their deaths were. It's awful there is no way I could look some of my best friends mothers and wives in the eye and lie to them along with whoever wrote up the casualty report just so the shot callers don't end up looking stupid. Also in complete honesty I feel horrible for taking part in the damage we did to everyone there. I did an aggressive "shock and awe" style tour then a "hearts and minds" style tour that was even worse it was months of false promises and broken dreams for the locals until I was hit by an IED. It's taken 5 years for me to sympathize what it would be like in their shoes. Now to hear that insurgency took over fallujah again is heart breaking to me. It has had me wondering constantly why my friends lost their lives and why I took others. I am still a solid patriot and feel so lucky to live the life I am blessed with here I just don't see any of the "liberation" we promised over and over. I feel so much guilt that I can't put it into words. The only positive that has come out of this for me is thankfulness for my free life and how careful I am about promising help to anyone if I'm not 100% I can deliver. I know that there are good people as well as bad just like everywhere else and I have found myself thinking about the families we destroyed that would have given years off their lives to live weeks how I do with my family. Everything seemed so simple at the time until the anger and self preservation instinct wore down over years and it has now just left me confused and lost. You have all my hope and sympathy that you have a positive recovery and don't hold yourself personally accountable for things that were out of your control. I know for me personally I have a lot of good I need to bring to this world to balance the scales for the horrible things I've done. Best wishes

Doc

 

[OldDoorGunner]

"One of the things that you need to know is, you are NOT the only one that has had to cross the line into the black in combat. I'll bet, there are a lot of guys that have do so right here on this board. I know I am, most of the work I did was black! But I was under orders to work the dark side............"

I watched arty smoke fired into a group of people... White fire everywhere, but I have not told anyone till now...I would never tell the shrink, don't see the point I guess. I understand the black...most of my job was dark in nature and silent by decree so to speak...but hey it makes for some awkward silences at therapy :whistle:

Hi Jenny,
I am guessing what you just shared here was not easy!!! I started out the same way, not wanting to tell anyone that kind of stuff. I don't care for shrinks much. Out of 6 I have worked with only one was a real good guy. I did share a tad with him, as he brought it out. This guy was easy to talk to and I just knew he cared......The one thing he did tell me was to talk about it and get it out in the open. That I should find someone I trusted and share it with them. Turns out it was my wife, she helped me write out my stressors, as I could not.....That was the start. I found an older counselor and I have told him things I never thought I would. All I can say is after I got this shit out and talked about it, a lot of it. I felt some.....freedom from it.

The only other times I have ever talked about this, was with other Nam vets. 7 months ago I was driving a 24' box truck down from Seattle to NM, as I emptied out some storage units. Stopped at a motel, no smoking rooms left. So I go out for a smoke at 9pm, where 3 guys were sitting, smoking and talking about Nam. So I am number 4 and turns out, we all have the beast. I would have loved to had a shrink hearing what we talking about and freely sharing with each other.(The stories) The shrink I guessing would have went and puked in the bushes. It was just so easy and free to talk about such things among us vets. I did not get to bed till 12:30am, the time just flew... When I went to bed I felt good and slept well......

This has help me.....but as you know, we are all different and this may not be your cup of tea.

Jenny, hoping for your best in your up coming inpatient stay......

J R

 

[BaMuoiBa]

Doc, welcome to the forum - your in the right place. Semper Fi from a former FMF sailor.

I know for me personally I have a lot of good I need to bring to this world to balance the scales for the horrible things I've done. Best wishes

There will be days you won't be able to say that because the beast is in your shit.

That is a wonderful goal for anyone without PTSD. For someone who's been through emotional wringer (like most of us) that is exemplary Doc. Good Luck!

Ba

 

[steve1]

Welcome Doc. You sound like your cup is pretty full. There's lots of good info & advice on here. Good luck.

 

[Drgnner]

I have tons of respect for all of you for the lack of treatment and support you came home to and still persevered.

 

[Drgnner]

I cant even remember how many times over the years I have had to tell myself that "I can take it" or "if I can make it through the next hour I will be ok". What this meant to me when I read it is that those of us left did not give up. Now I am in my 60s and still telling myself the same thing from time to time.

 

[Sarg]

Made us tough as long horn steer hide. Crazy as a fing loon, but tough. You know what would be cooler than hell....for us to collectively write about episodes we went through when we first got back. I smell best seller all over that one. HA!

Sarg

 

[vikingr12]

Welcome to the dog pound. All our demons try to get long here and for he most part I think we do.

I was combat medic fo the AF so, as the rest of us, I know the dark side. I had the pre-mission briefings about how secret this all is and blah blah blah. The main thing right now is get OVER it. Leave it behind and start controlling what stimulates you into those bad thoughts. Let's put a name one one of them: guilt. It's GUILT, not SHAME. You did it. It;s done. It's over. You can't draw back time and make it not done. And there is no one on this earth who has the right to BLAME you. There is no SHAME or BLAME in what you did. IF you can't tell someone and you feel you have to, I get down on my knees and actually pray, but not in the sense of most religious people. Meditate could be another word for it. But I talk to myself silently. I tell myself what I did and I don't judge myself at all. I forgive myself. Forgive is a word everyone should learn. It really helps me to heal. I forgive myself for failing to get to a lot of wounded when I knew I could and didn't. Or let an enemy die like a dog in the dirt. I did that. And more. Not proud. Not ashamed -- now. I was before. I can't change it.

And it does not matter that you were under orders or not. Just being there is being under orders. Try to work toward the future from the here and now. Think about what you are going to do not what you have done.

The memories will come back without your consent. Know that. You already do. Don't fight them. Just know they are temporary and will go away and might return. These are the ghosts we live with.

And by the way, I will need you to tell me the same thing when I am knee deep in mindless gut-wrenching mental and physical pain. It happens to me often. I just got out of the hospital and will use a cane for a while.

And I had blue steel too. And a shotgun right by the bed, loaded. Safety off. I got rid of them by my choice. IF you keep yours, there is a promise that goes with it: only in defence and never to hurt yourself.

Stick with us....

 

[OldDoorGunner]

I cant even remember how many times over the years I have had to tell myself that "I can take it" or "if I can make it through the next hour I will be ok". What this meant to me when I read it is that those of us left did not give up. Now I am in my 60s and still telling myself the same thing from time to time.

This post and a few others, got me to thinking about starting a new post on us aging Nam vets. Not sure where to put it??? We are no longer dealing with just the beast, but also Agent Orange, and the ravages of time as our bodies grow older. To be honest, this is not helping the beast, it is making it, at times worse!!!

I am not sure if we are allowed to post anything about this or not? But it does have an affect on the PTSD, in the dealing with it....To give you an idea what I am talking about (short version) I was told on Oct 29th that I have a liposarcoma in my right ass muscle and is pressing on my sciatica. (Agent Orange) That is all I know at this point. (the VA did not have a Doc that could do the test needed) As of a few days ago, I am now going to see a Doc on the 13th to see if he can do the test and what comes next!!! However, the beast is using this against me.......Big Time!

Brothers and Sisters, I am not looking for any sympathy here at all!!! But it sure would be nice if we had a place where us older vets can talk and share and learn from other vets. As to how they did this or that in dealing with things like this. The PTSD and for other treatments they have had done and what they thought of that treatment?

Maybe a members only, with a warning "Reading this could aggrabate your PTSD or it may help!"

I am in no way looking to start a Pitty Party!!!!

To tell the truth, I would rather be rolling in on a Quad 51 in a Gunship, than dealing with this.

J R