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Not Alters - Aspects?

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Shame really - I was hoping you were assuring me it was totally normal
Well, it is really imho. Ever watch someone who absolutely 'loses it' for no apparent reason? I think this is what I was trying to say with this statement:
I wonder sometimes if the people who don't get what the big deal is in trauma are still in their compartmentalized selves and see absolutely no problem with it.
I honestly believe that way more 'normal' people are like this than you can imagine. I mean, I looked 'normal' for 45 years.
 
Weirdly enough, my two arms represent different parts in therapy (non-verbal, it works very well) and they are starting to sort of communicate...well, the left doesn't communicate well at all, very traumatized and disorganized, but the right side is trying to "teach" it or help it. My therapist thinks it's a helpful duet. I do body psychotherapy for trauma (Somatic Experiencing).

I think concepts of "parts" can be helpful but I also don't do really well through thinking of it very literally, like I have very distinct parts. Even with these bizarre "parts" that were totally different in therapy, there was some communication connected through me as a whole.

But mainly, you have to feel comfortable with the therapy, the concepts, and the framework. Everything I just said would have totally creeped me out a few years ago. But as I was allowed largely my own process, with guidance but not a perfectly prescribed formula, this all started to make more sense than anything. It's how I can understand, communicate with my therapist, and slowly change and integrate things.

I am quite dissociative at times, but always aware on some level....like no amnesia at present, that I know of, except I sometimes have bite marks on my hand and have no memory of biting myself. For the most part, my loose understanding of "parts" is very general and allows for my own expansion or revising of understanding (I think of it more as my traumatized parts, the most difficult feeling age 0-1 yr in how powerless she is). The helpful right side could be ANP but it really feels like my "self" that is comprised of protector parts and adult parts...very functional. It's not just an ANP (or at least that concept doesn't jive for me on this one) because it is able to integrate everything...not that it always has success...it's the part that can make the efforts and help the parts that can't.

But whatever the terms, I'm more focused on the process (so is my therapist). If you don't feel helped by having your therapist assign and map out all these parts, please tell her. I know for me that kind of approach feels very inflexible because it's hard to have perfect info when you are still learning about these aspects (I do like the word "aspect" better). Others like feeling like they have an answer or map of sorts. I don't unless it really matches my experience. Very few maps do. I more just need a guide through the murky places so I don't drop into oblivion.

You probably have traumatized aspects...the important part is finding ways to let them feel safe enough to communicate and work through their stuff so they aren't always feeding your body/mind a old tape that says you are unsafe now. Other parts can help with that.

It is not bad to have these parts or aspects. I am learning to really appreciate that in therapy I can have a sort of dual awareness that allows me to communicate between parts and rewire the safety information in my body. I don't always do well on my own, but it's getting easier as I recognize this stuff and new choices I have.
 
I honestly believe that way more 'normal' people are like this than you can imagine.
I think it's a natural reaction to stress. I just think with our stress cups and everything else, it means that we see it way more often that 'normal' people do. If you talk to people after a crisis they'll have impressions of watching everything in slow motion, from out of body, being numb, things like that. And if someone's crying and then realizes someone they don't know came into a room often they'll stop without thinking about it. Sort of like with dissociation where everyone experiences daydreaming, it's just that not everyone wakes up across town without knowing how they got there.

I just feel like the trauma and PTSD means that our responses are magnified and rest on the far end of the spectrum as far as severity and frequency.
 
no amnesia at present, that I know of
I would have said that. I know there is some amnesia for bits of the traumas, but I thought there was no present day amnesia Except - who moved that wretched furniture?
If you don't feel helped by having your therapist assign and map out all these parts, please tell her
She isn't identifying specific parts - just assuming multiple EPs, which disturbs me more because according to my reading that is secondary dissociation and hence a diagnosis beyond simple PTSD.

You probably have traumatized aspects...the important part is finding ways to let them feel safe enough to communicate
Again - a disturbing idea, that still feels alien to me. Logically, if I'm accepting any of this then that is why I have no recollection of chunks of my traumas.

The word I keep using is disturbing - this is disturbing my mind, my sleep and my digestion
 
this is disturbing my mind, my sleep and my digestion
For myself, getting my 'head' around it was disturbing as well. I think there is resistance between the ANP and EP - one is not actually supposed to be aware of the other - for protection sake. The thing is that once one melts down, it is a way of understanding, if only to build awareness.

For instance. I know I go ballistic every time I see a spider. That is a part of me. I don't care why. Another 'part' of me loves dogs. It allows me to recognize that each part has specific preferences and which one do I choose. To challenge the spider part or to just roll with the 'I love dogs' part.

No idea if this makes sense to anyone but me, but well.... just my 2 cents as to how I got comfie with the whole idea.
 
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She isn't identifying specific parts - just assuming multiple EPs, which disturbs me more because according to my reading that is secondary dissociation and hence a diagnosis beyond simple PTSD.

Is your therapist concerned about all the specific diagnosis? Since you say "traumas" it is pretty likely more like complex trauma, or CPTSD, which is not an official diagnosis (not because trauma experts don't support it...just lots of other political and conceptual issues yet getting something like this in the books). Many therapists recognize this and, even though I have a PTSD diagnosis from years ago, I appreciate having a therapist who can work with me through the complex trauma lens. This accounts for all my stuff. I don't need 8 different diagnosis. I've never done the MID (would likely have some DDNOS and definitely somatization or whatever they call it now, or conversion symptoms) and came up with nothing on MMPI though I have some borderline and very avoidant traits.

These all fit within complex trauma. One label, one connecting concept, one way to clump it all together. And for all the symptoms, dissociative or otherwise, working very carefully with the body sensations and trauma (as my body is willing to work with it) is the treatment. It doesn't feel so complicated. It all fits together under complex trauma. It's also very validating, because even my seemingly disorganized parts were doing very smart things to survive when they had extremely limited or zero resources. The nature of trauma is that they are simply stuck "on" still, always protecting me from threat which usually is not there. The simplicity of understanding it from the perspective of complex trauma is very helpful (not sure if it's helpful to you or not, but many people here could recommend more sources if it's of any interest).

My therapist called my trauma "globalized high intensity complex trauma." (wtf). I think it's a Somatic Experiencing concept that includes early major medical trauma. Basically just "complex trauma". She's also encouraged me to be patient as some of my stuff is nearly intractable...but she's never said anything is impossible. So instead of feeling stomped on, it helps to finally see what "it" is...I've had a hard time connecting with others since....forever. So no hurry for me to recover. So, even if it means recognizing some of my patterns are very old, they are not indicative of me being fundamentally f*cked up. They are really logical in light of early traumas. It just feels very hopeful to have someone who understands it...and a process or path through some of it so I do feel like I have a little more control. Probably you have that in your therapist and she needs to either slow down or explain where she's coming from better (I went through that early on in my treatment...and some roadblocks along the way...we just have to get back on the same page from time to time).

Are you more disturbed by all the possible labels or just realizing and trying to accept this might be more than you imagined? The therapy should ideally help you even slowly process that. I've sometimes realized, "Whoa, I'm sort of more messed up than I realized!" but I'm actually functioning better...realizing sort of the depth of this stuff, but simultaneously being able to transform it. So I don't feel totally horrified.

Again - a disturbing idea, that still feels alien to me. Logically, if I'm accepting any of this then that is why I have no recollection of chunks of my traumas.

Do you recognize any of what your therapist is noticing besides the one possible "EP" you mentioned? Would it be helpful to tell her that you aren't following, feel overwhelmed, or need more time to process or understand? Maybe it's helpful for HER to map out these parts but you are not able to recognize what she seems to see. ??

Instead of "parts" or aspects you can label it all however you want...like modes, patterns, responses... I don't see my self-destructive part as a separate "part" really, but there is a certain kind of trigger that sends me to this place. And it hasn't been a place (or part) I've felt okay even working with in therapy...because it didn't seem appropriate to bring a knife to therapy. Took 3 years. Kaia, here on the forum, mentioned the idea of a crayon as a small weapon. Really, that worked in my case because it's more about the feelings connected to gripping something "weapon-like" and holding it close to protect myself. My right arm could do it. My left tried to stick it in my eye (therapist gently intervened on that). Sorry if I sound nuts, but I really feel a lot more whole at this point for being able to safely allow for this stuff. But we didn't map any of this out. We knew I had certain symptoms and patterns...and slowly I've been recognizing what triggers and feelings and body sensations go with certain patterns. The stubborn ones are very old. They are often connected to depersonalization and total withdrawal, so hard to work with....takes a long time of just feeling safe first.

Anyway, please talk to your therapist so you don't lose trust or get too scared or overwhelmed. Maybe she can keep more of it for her own conceptualizing or find a reasonable piece of it for you to work on....so it feels tangible.

Sorry that was like a chapter long. I'll back out because I get too verbal. But it's okay to not get hung up on terms and diagnosis and structures...understandably adds to overwhelm and confusion if you aren't feeling the experiential connection to it. If it feels right it will help your understanding, not muddy it. Might just be a matter of time and/or clarification.
 
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Thanks @Chava that was useful, and needed to be that long to be so.

I like labels, I like to quantify, classify and collate. Correct labels are important to me because I've had to fight wrong diagnoses that I knew were absurd. Getting the right label seems important in identifying the right treatment, and I've lost count of how many times I've had to say "I'm not depressed,

I'm distressed" and "No, really I've never been Borderline. Here are my family to confirm it" and once " What are you dreaming of, of course I'm not Autistic". They circled round everything they could think of and came back to PTSD or cPTSD depending on who I spoke to.

Would it be helpful to tell her that you aren't following, feel overwhelmed, or need more time to process or understand?
It might be helpful, but it's not realistic. At the moment i'm half way through a 16 session allocation. My T is trying to get that extended, but doesn't know if that will happen. I have no idea if this could have any impact either way on that. What I do know is that this makes the idea of moving on to trauma processing even more disturbing, because it's not just me being afraid of speaking about it, It's something that is determined I shouldn't know. From past experience I know how far that EP or protector or whatever it is will go to defend me form knowing.

I think this isn't something I can do in 16 weeks.

Are you more disturbed by all the possible labels or just realizing and trying to accept this might be more than you imagined? I've sometimes realized, "Whoa, I'm sort of more messed up than I realized!"

It's definitely the "more than I imagined, more messed up than I realised" that is disturbing me. I've spent so long fighting to get the treatment to get me back, and now I find that the me I thought was there was only an element of me, that was focussed on keeping other aspects of me hidden. I just don't want it to be so complicated
 
What I do know is that this makes the idea of moving on to trauma processing even more disturbing, because it's not just me being afraid of speaking about it, It's something that is determined I shouldn't know. From past experience I know how far that EP or protector or whatever it is will go to defend me form knowing.

I think this isn't something I can do in 16 weeks.

Yes, this would be really hard. Here's where a CPTSD diagnosis (or label if that's good enough for insurance, etc) would be helpful. OR hopefully your PTSD with dissociative diagnosis. 16 sessions is pretty unrealistic for resolving complex and dissociative forms of trauma. That's not saying the therapy can't be useful but I can really understand your protective parts not wanting to budge. I spent half a year waiting for info on new insurance to know if I could continue therapy. In hindsight, I moved nowhere in that wait because I didn't want to get in deep and then just suddenly have to stop. OMG the insurance stuff sucks. I hope your therapist can advocate for some sort of extension. Really there shouldn't be a limit. It's like saying, "We will allow you this many treatments or three months for your cancer treatment". Of course people would say my argument sucks here, but really, I've experienced my stuff as pretty life-threatening (lots of just wanting to die too). The short limits on this kind of healing = mind-blowing.

It's definitely the "more than I imagined, more messed up than I realised" that is disturbing me. I've spent so long fighting to get the treatment to get me back, and now I find that the me I thought was there was only an element of me, that was focussed on keeping other aspects of me hidden. I just don't want it to be so complicated

I hope it feels helpful that you are coming closer to right diagnosis. I am not big on labels, but I do understand what you mean about getting it right (why, for me, complex trauma fits so much better than "depressed, anxioius, ADD, ED, substance abuse, dissociative"...these are all my symptoms, not my root problem or disorder. I'm sure the wrong person could diagnose me somewhere on the autism spectrum too, whereas my stuff is really early trauma and attachment problems.

Sorry it is complicated. Is there any support in place for when your 16 sessions are up or are you still working towards hoping to extend that? Those hidden parts often need a long time and assurance of some kind of safety in order to be known and integrated. Hopefully a more accurate diagnosis helps in the process of advocating for the treatment. Sorry it's so messy and probably feels like a pressure cooker.
 
Yes, because things often get more serious before they get better.

omigod yes. I was almost like a normal person for the first half year of 6-12 months of therapy :woot::bag: (but I'm not in a time-pressed structure which I understand might mean very different things, but I hope you get good info from your therapist on how this can shake out for you @stenni so you feel safe)
 
I think this isn't something I can do in 16 weeks.

That would be very hard... perhaps you can commit to continuing to help yourself, including searching until you find good long-term external help, though? -- that can be a long-term commitment even if this therapist cannot be there long-term.

The time limitation sounds similar to the experience of other folks here in the UK, it seems. The UK is so geographically close to the Netherlands, which has such excellent trauma research going on! Sorry, not really relevant... but...
 
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