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Oxygen And The Freeze Response

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Later on, no doctor, not even a nurse at all came. They just sent the pissed of assistant nurse to slap, pinch and yell at me. While the patient in the next bed, desperately begged them to stop this behaviour. - I still live in fear of what will happen, if this catatonia will happen again.
I think that this is an important thing to speak about. I have heard several people on the board that have had issues with this. It is terrifying.

This pancreas thing has me sitting on pins and needles. I literally would rather die than go through another hospital experience. I have given this much thought. I won't go back in again regardless of the outcome.

Sorry for thread jacking, but for the first time in my life I simply had to talk about this horrible experience.
Not a thread jacking at all TH. I am never concerned about that. Please. No apologies and speak more of it if it helps. I am so sorry this happened to you.

Born, I just did up a large thread in response and lost it all. It was super triggery for me as well. Please be patient as I put it all back together again.
 
I relate to oxygen deprivation and shutting everything and down to the basic survival mechanisms (no emotions really, can't talk, don't respond well to external environment in these situations, no working connection to other humans).

But I did find the article a little confusing...like how many different thesis points, or what is the main one? But I won't pick it apart. I would say, to relate to what I can, that my freeze stuff is the hardest to resolve, but I don't feel like I'm always stuck in the parasympathetic nervous system...more sympathetic and jittery. But under stress I exhaust that very quickly and shut down. I shut down over totally regular things, like asthma. This is obviously a breathing trigger thing for me. But I froze in non-breathing trauma too, like sexual assault. Nobody was suffocating me. I just couldn't move. I still don't know how much the later/adult traumas dredged up old responses for how much the freeze all felt the same. Or maybe freeze just feels like freeze.

I'm finding sound and vibrations help a little with the shutdown stuff because I can feel them internally and it sort of settles that chaotic feeling of being stuck or not having rhythm/breath/pulse. Reminds me I'm working.
 
I'm afraid one more truck sized hole in this guy's theory are the zillions of cynotic infants born unable to breathe for various reasons (umbilical cord wrapped around neck, obstruction, premature birth)... As well as asthma, COPD, & other pulmonary kids who are born fighters, or who shift quite readily between fight & flight.
 
If anyone is interested there is an interesting take on catatonia by Fink that may answer to some of the discrepancies you feel you are seeing in the article. This guy is working on the premise, it seems that Tonic Immobility and Catatonia are one in the same along a spectrum and that Catatonia does not belong within the Schizophrenic category at all and for some very good reasons as is laid on in the link below.
http://medicine.stonybrookmedicine.edu/psychiatry/news/fink_catatonia

On a side note, O2 was always a measurement they took when I had a catatonic 'spell'. It was important as it would get dangerously low and they had to oxygenate me if it got to a certain point. Standard procedure.
 
Catatonia does not belong within the Schizophrenic category at all and for some very good reasons as is laid on in the link below.
Just a quick response to agree with you, and say that catatonia is no longer within the Schizophrenic category. This is a very good thing.
I understand what you are attempting to do here and recognize it is for the good of the board - for awareness. Based on my personal experience - well it comes across as a challenge and minimization of my daily experience for over 7 years. So let me just clarify that yes, I did suffer from catatonia.
I believe you - and I just want to clarify that "catatonia specifier" does not mean "lesser, or not-as-real, catatonia". I'm sorry that it came across that way. It is now how we can talk about catatonia in a way that is up-to-date and finally acknowledges that it is not isolated to the schizophrenia spectrum.

(we are actually totally on the same side here, and saying the same things).

The reason it matters: You likely had PTSD before your catatonia, is that right? (I'm going off of what I've read in other threads about your story, please do forgive me if I'm wrong). So, PTSD would be your 'originating' diagnosis. Then, it's about co-morbidity.

A simpler (older) way to say this would be to say you have PTSD with catatonic features - except that the name 'catatonic features' is left-over from when it was limited to the psychosis disorders.

Now that they have expanded their understanding of how catatonia can emerge from many different conditions, when it is caused by one's originating disorder, it is called a Catatonia specifier.

So, you would be PTSD, catatonia specifier; co-morbid with (whatever you are co-morbid with, could be anxiety, depression, etc...).

As opposed to PTSD, co-morbid with catatonia. Ssaying it this way puts you on the schizophrenia spectrum, and you are clearly aware that you aren't, and don't belong over there. What you want to communicate (I think) is that the catatonia sprung from your PTSD, not from a separate organic brain disorder.

(do I have that right?)

It's nomenclature, that's all.

And it can be really frustrating - I still feel badly for the people with autism who had Aspergers taken away. Once you've had to work to come to terms with a condition, suddenly having the medical community re-name your experience can just feel like being robbed. If someone came along and told me, "oh, you no longer have major depressive disorder, now it's called 'generalized depression' "- my reaction would be to say, "wait, no - I have a major problem, not a generalized problem, f*ck off." Except the only thing that matters, really, is that I have the right diagnostic label for describing my particular condition. The new label doesn't actually take away anything of my experience of my illness.

When you need to communicate with new doctors (and I know doctors also are such a trigger for you), it's good to have the labels right - it makes them listen differently. It really does. It shouldn't make a difference but it does. So, If I were your friend going with you to see a brand new doc and was helping you give your history, I'd phrase the whole thing as "I had catatonia for (x) period of time; it would now be diagnosed as a catatonic specifier to my PTSD."

I really appreciate you responding, and yes - it's all under the heading of education, not at all intended to minimize, truly.
 
I really appreciate you responding, and yes - it's all under the heading of education, not at all intended to minimize, truly.
Yes, thanks @joeylittle, I really do appreciate that and I know that about your character. I just had to fight through some really evil shit that happened back when I was presenting with catatonia. It was the single most terrifying thing about the PTSD. It brought in betrayal, further trauma, torture (I am going to call it that but that word is hard for me), so many things. I am glad that this post has come up and I am seeing it from a different side. I am cranked up though.

catatonia is no longer within the Schizophrenic category.
This is, truly, what frustrates me so much. When I was diagnosed, it was in the Schizophrenic category. Therefore, it was hell to get the diagnosis because I didn't 'fit'. Next to impossible to get the benzoids so I was down for days and days and days, knowing that there was a pill out there that I wasn't allowed to take because I wasn't Schizophrenic. If I had been diagnosed as Schizophrenic they would have given me anti-psychotics which leads to NMS, which is potentially fatal for those of us with catatonia and also aggravates the catatonia.

If I said the word catatonic to health care workers they would treat me like I was either 'psychotic' or 'malingering', neither of which is good for personal physical or mental health whilst in the care of most health care workers in these parts, as TH has confirmed.

This is why I have such an issue with people relying on studies and diagnosis. Because 3 years down the line they change. It has happened to me over and over again. So forgive me for challenging this stuff JL and I know I do it a lot, but it has been so real and painful to me - this fight of knowing what is in black and white in the DSM and nobody listening to my experience because it wasn't in the DSM. And suffering the wrath of them while I was immobilized.
(we are actually totally on the same side here, and saying the same things).
Yes, sorry JL.
So, you would be PTSD
Yes, Complex is what I was diagnosed with, whatever that is these days. There was talk when I was diagnosed of Conversion Disorder, DDNOS, Catatonia, Somatoform Disorder.
I do believe that my catatonia was Tonic Immobility on the high end of the scale (which has yet to be defined formally). Fink talks about this in his article. So Born, if that is true, then some of your statements are not correct because freeze can be likened to catatonia or may even be the same thing. But right now, according to the DSM you are correct but according to my experiences and current research, I am correct. Although neither one of us would have been correct a few years back. *heavy sigh*. Who knows.

What I do know is that in my personal experience I was triggered into it, it was based on a fear response but responded like catatonia with the benzoids. My O2 levels were f*ed completely, so o2 has a lot to do with catatonia. My guess on how it started for me? An operation performed at 4 days old. I believe when one is in pain that is beyond comprehension, the body must adapt and it shuts down in a dramatic way so that one cannot feel its presence so the organism can live. In doing that it shuts down bloodflow, oxygen, all body responses to just barely keep the organism alive. And then it becomes a coping mechanism or is triggered by something. I know that any operation I have had they tell me 'they almost lost me'. I think it is a trauma response myself. They are not realizing I have gone catatonic. OMG I am just rambling. So sorry.

Yes, the article was written like sheist. And so is this post. Sorry. :notworthy:

Anyways, sorry, very emotionally charged times for me, forgive me as I have hijacked the thread. This is embarrassing.
 
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Yes, @shimmerz there are indeed many papers out there confirming the possible connection between TI and catatonia you referred to. Below is just one of them. I could not find anything concluding yet.

Psychol Rev. 2004 Oct;111(4):984-1002.
"Scared stiff": catatonia as an evolutionary-based fear response.
Moskowitz AK1.
Author information

Abstract
Catatonia, long viewed as a motor disorder, may be better understood as a fear response, akin to the animal defense strategy tonic immobility (after G. G. Gallup & J. D. Maser, 1977). This proposal, consistent with K. L. Kahlbaum's (1874/1973) original conception, is based on similarities between catatonia and tonic immobility ("death feint") as well as evidence that catatonia is associated with anxiety and agitated depression and responds dramatically to benzodiazepines. It is argued that catatonia originally derived from ancestral encounters with carnivores whose predatory instincts were triggered by movement but is now inappropriately expressed in very different modern threat situations. Found in a wide range of psychiatric and serious medical conditions, catatonia may represent a common "end state" response to feelings of imminent doom and can serve as a template to understand other psychiatric disorders.

2004 APA
PMID: 15482070 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
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