Passing Judgment on Severity of Symptoms

[Linda]

Kathy, thanks for starting this thread. Bec, Evie, Veilid, and everybody, thanks for additions.
I am a lucky one who has relatively mild symptoms, and, although had seen in my life people with more severe PTSD, did not realize how disabling it can be before I got to the Forum. To be honest, reading from others helped me to realize that things can be a lot worse, and made me to feel that I am luckier than some people - a kind of selfish feeling, as I would hear about someone having a horrible disease and be glad that I do not... I know it is not a nice feeling, but that how it was.
But this is something close to what I was thinking about, and what I once mention in a private message to one of the members: as any disease, physical or mental, PTSD has different level of severity, and people are effected in different ways.
What I think is useful for people like me, who are able to live a nearly normal life, is to try hard to realize that it is NOT too much of our achievement, but rather is our luck (although, of course, work on self matters). And another think to consider is that others may be a lot more sensitive to certain issues. So would be good to think twice before letting am anger out here... I had failed it once, and feel like offended and hurt many people, but will not repeat that.
Thanks again everyone,
Linda

 

[Deleted member 541]

Well Becvan then I guess I was triggered with your remark about "I was forced to go to work" As I was the one that said it months ago, I felt it was directly aimed at me. Still do too, as you could have used any other statement than mine. JMO!

Never on this forum have I ever said that someone's symptoms were less or greater. I have stated this. PTSD is PTSD, pain is pain, suffering is suffering. I also said that I may handle anxiety better than someone but it dosen't mean that their anxiety is any less upsetting to them. All of us suffer. Yes we all suffer differently. I had my share of it too, and like I said I have fought to get where I am today.

I hate this frigging condition, I wish that none of us had to go through what we have, only to be left with this....PTSD.

 

[anthony]

I am hoping that this thread does not get specific, though more remains a general statement. Why did Kathy post this? At a rough guess, and I mean rough, in that I have not specifically asked her for any behind the scenes information; is that she posted it not about the older members, but maybe more the newer members coming in with the same habits as the older, though maybe some older members are agreeing with newer one's relating to severity or comparison, instead of parsing what is known as a more correct analogy to the facts.

A forum is a community, and as such one creates the general background of information and then the community builds upon that information. The idea of a community is to interact; though as part of that interaction comes subject knowledge and the ability to parse that knowledge to those who maybe do not understand it as yet, or maybe someone has a better way of doing things which should be adopted. Either way, I think Kathy is getting to the core of the issue being that with the overwhelming flood of new members to the forum it is quite difficult to respond to everyone now, and more as a collective group the older help the newer, or the more knowledgeable help the less knowledgeable, being those who think they have the answers but may not have quite all the pieces of the puzzle just yet, they need a few pieces.

Kathy will correct me if wrong, though I believe this is where the issue really stems.

 

[anthony]

Added: This is why I am going to do an ebook next year, so it summates all the required information so that if a person did nothing more than read that book alone, they would have all the answers to the general problems, without being specific to themselves which is what therapists assist with.

 

[Lisa]

I have only read Kathy's post, as I don't have the concentration today to read everything, so apologies if I repeat something others have said....

This is a good post, Kathy, and thanks for posting it. It's one of those subjects that probably doesn't get talked about. Whilst I am not someone who has experienced what you have described here on this forum, and haven't known this is an issue here- you say some feel hurt by comments in relation to what you raise in this post, but don't feel able to voice this and so it's good something has been said. I'm a strong believer that people should be able to say what they feel and think, and it's not always easy where emotions are involved.

Raising the fact that PTSD exists on a continuum is an important point... yes, some people struggle to function more than others. This is not a competition. Why are we comparing who has it better? Who can do more, and who doesn't and can't? In truth, regardless of label, nobody actually knows how another feels and suffers, so instead of making assumptions, I think people should just concern themselves with themselves in getting better. Simply, if we can take positive things from others then we should, whether they have severe PTSD or not... this forum is about getting better, and supporting each other through that quest. I don't see what all this about severity has to do with that really.

Just because someone has PTSD to such a severe degree that they don't function as well as others, does it mean that they are not doing as well in recovery? No way! Recovery is relative. You might have an agoraphobic who never set foot out of their house a day in their life. A year later, they manage to leave their house for an hour a day. Another agoraphobic may not be so agoraphobic in that they were always able to leave their house 3 hours a day, but could not cope for any longer length of time. A year later, this person may not be any further forward in changing that. Who's doing better recovery wise? The more severe agoraphobic.

I guess my point is... the focus on this is wrong. Comparing yourself to another isn't a good thing... each of us have PTSD. And each of us have particular battles, particular obstacles, and common obstacles to overcome. It's how we as individual people learn to overcome our issues that is important. We may all have PTSD... but we're all still individual people with individual lives, issues, and things to overcome in PTSD, as well as the general commonalities we all have symptom-wise. It makes no difference how far along someone else is to our individual recovery, unless we take good pointers from that person and use it positively. So why is the 'severity' even relevant?

Do I understand how frightening it is to have cancer? Of course, I had it myself, and I can empathize with Evie to a certain extent. However, it would quite arrogant of me to assume my level of emotional and physical suffering is anywhere near hers, or that her ability to "bounce back" emotionally after the cancer is in remission will be the same as mine. No one would dispute that she has had the harder time of things, and so will have to work harder to achieve the same levels of emotional management.

Agreed. We all can empathise and understand certain things. But there will always be aspects of a person's life that others should never assume to know as much about. If somebody told me they knew EXACTLY how I should think and feel because they went through something similar, I'd probably put their head through a window. But if somebody tells me how it was for them whilst appreciates my experiences and feelings and impacts may be different to them, then I can thank them for their support.

However, you are not clones of one another, each person's situation is unique.

This just makes my point clearer... totally agree.

Similarly, whilst nobody here has done this, I have experienced off this forum some people think because they have a 'more severe' problem, that my suffering is not as important or as much. Nope... I suffer just as much in some ways, less in others, and more in other ways still. I function better is some respects, and worse in others. And I don't actually know whether I would be classed as 'severe' or not... more to the point, I don't really care. I know where I want to be, and what 'better' is to me, and that's all I'm worried about.

I guess you just can't judge so simplistically, and it achieves nothing. So why bother?

 

[becvan]

K. I'll use an example.

Take the work issue. You have a bunch of people with the severe end. They can't work. The stress overloads on them immediately. They end up with severe health issues. They have no choice but to stop working or face death. They have to struggle on welfare, their husbands wages whatever. Then comes along someone with milder PTSD who says .. well I work because I have no choice. The implication and insult is very clear.

She cat, please read this. Hmm first it says.. I'll use an example. Secondly, where in there is the quote you use? In fact, here is what you say I said.

Well Becvan then I guess I was triggered with your remark about "I was forced to go to work" As I was the one that said it months ago, I felt it was directly aimed at me. Still do too, as you could have used any other statement than mine. JMO!

It's not. This is NOT about you. This is not a beat up She Cat thread. I did not use your statement. I used a scenario, one of which has been replayed on this forum, countless times. Do you really think you are the only person to have ever had that conversation? I've been here for over a year. This conversation has replayed many, many times.

This thread is about the members that do this. We have piles of new members. We have so many that trying to address each one, individually, is not possible. We are trying to get a point across. We are trying to raise peoples awareness. We are trying to help others move past a hurtful mindset that holds them back from getting better.

The only thing you seem to be capable of is making this about you. Your arrogance is astounding. This was NOT and is NOT about work. It is also NOT ABOUT YOU. I have said that already and yet it's still being yammered on and on about.Why don't you go back and reread every post here. Maybe you will learn something instead of defending yourself over and over again, when the issue has been clarified numerous times.

bec

 

[Deleted member 541]

Feeling that there was an implication is your issue. There was none on my part, and I do not look down at others because they can't work. There was a time that I couldn't work or function either, and when push came to shove I did what I had to do. As everyone here does what they have to do also.

I have re-read the entire thread twice. Nope it's not all about me.

You can call it arrogance or whatever you wish Becvan. I call it survival.

 

[Awakening]

Well said Lisa, you made some very good points about the continum of PTSD, thanks for making it even more clearer, eventually I might get it!

Looking forward to the ebook Anthony (hint hint).

 

[Nam]

I have read through this entire thread and had to ponder it before making a post. I even went to bed and tried to sleep, but I kept thinking about this thread, hence why I'm back at the keyboard at 4:30 in the morning!

I'm really not sure what to write but that I'm now going to be more careful about what I write in my posts. I only have my own PTSD experience to derive from...so that is my only true understanding. I do believe that PTSD can be lived with and to not settle for your current suffering if you don't want to be there! I know that PTSD can be incredibly debilitating and horrific and it is such a hard road to travel, but it does and can get better. Me saying that is not putting myself "up here" and putting others "down here", but me trying to remind people that there are sufferers that are living (functioning) well with PTSD.

I was talking to a friend just now who said I should give an example of what I have been told in PMs as well. Here is the typical "encouraging" PM I have received: "Oh Evie, you are such a trooper, I know if you keep plugging away you will get to where I am soon enough".

Ok..that statment above, I'm guilty of doing this, I think. When you said this Evie, my heart plunged because I see how you can take this...well, personally. This person who wrote this to you probably just wants you to feel better soon, to join him/her in feeling good. I so badly want all of you to feel better and to live life with love and trust. But yes, I'm guilty of this and I will stop now. That being said, though, I don't want bland responses of empty words all over the forum because people are afraid they're offending someone even with good intentions...you know?

Ok..enough rambling...Time to sleep on this to see if the morning brings any new insights.

 

[anthony]

I was just chatting with Nic about this, and derived the following. There is nothing wrong if you made a statement, "I handle my anxiety better than my friend," as this is a personal comparison that you have your friend to look at often and not just through interactive talk. It is impossible to gauge any comparison through text. It is impossible to gauge a comparison to one self with collective statements, ie. I handle my anxiety better than most with PTSD! Unless you know a lot of people personally with PTSD, it would be hard to gauge this type of statement.

The thing is this though; people make statements and use words that we often do not mean to use, though our intent is typically good. There is certainly no need to attack one another over such things, though instead just ask for clarification using different words and terms. We all do this, and I mean "we all do this" at times. It is impossible to "always" be politically correct in our choice of words considering states of anxiety and denial vary day to day, week to week, hour to hour even.

To be perfectly honest.... I think this type of thread would be better discussed after the holiday period when anxiety levels are not peaked, knowingly or not, having to deal with the holiday period and put on any faces of niceness and the like. Even if you enjoy the period, anxiety will still be increased in most simply due to the pressure of doing, being and seeing people, travelling and so forth. It creates anxiety, and I have noticed a rather tight influx in posting bitterness leading into the Christmas period. Coincidence? I think not....

 

[Kathy]

I must apologize. When I began this thread I had no idea it would become so controversial; that was never my intent. Additionally, posting it right before the holidays was very poor judgment on my part. I wonder now if perhaps I should not have posted at all.

Anthony is quite correct, this is a very stressful time for all, myself included. The truth of the matter is, December is most stressful for me. I am not dealing well with the death of my son, and December is a particularly hard month as it is his birthday, Christmas, and also our wedding anniversary (our anniversary is today, in fact). I hadn't realized it until my family confronted me yesterday however I believe I have become overly involved in some of the problems here, worrying about people here far too much when I should be dealing with my own problems re: my son.

In any event I do sincerely apologize for this. Now I shall cease being the hypocrite and get off the computer as I ordered my family to have a technology break during the holidays !!

 

[Cole]

It is very sad that a simple and so very true observance on PTSD symptoms has become a blow out of personal issues and imagined accusations, I believe the all Kathy was trying to say was that everyone reacts differently with their symptoms and that some feel theirs more severely than others and that some are able to do things for whatever reason that others are not. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.