BPD Personality disorders

[Hemels]

Hi Helena,

Actually your question isn't such a difficult one.

Unfortunately the worse one I endure is the BPD to deal with for relationships. Both my work and personal relationships are aware of my PTSD and most of my work collegues in peticular have a spouse or close relative which have PTSD also so they are very understanding with me.

Unfortunately though, both my work collegues and my personal relationships seem to suffer alot from my BPD due to the sometimes instability of my emotions that I can have, the intense anger fits I endure and the inpulsive nature I have developed. My partner has to have full control of our finances otherwise I will (and have done in the past) gone out and spent everything we have just because "I wanted to!" and not on anything inpeticular, most of it usually is worthless.

My black and white outlook on things seems to distroy alot of my friendships as from one minute to the next they don't know where they stand with me. They can be really nice and i'll fall in love with them (yes this is right) and in the next minute they say something out of line and I am scream shout and fall out with them and feel totally cheated and that they are the worst person in the whole world. My fiancé, even though I know deep down that he is the one I want to be with and love, has to contend with alot, because my emotions towards people can change from idalization to hatred quickly. I seem to get confused by my own emotions and see my idalization as feelings for someone, although these can be quickly quashed by the reactions or actions of the other person. This mixed with my impulsiveness can equal disaster and due to this I can and have cheated. Due to this alone I never trust myself even though my fiancé trusts me totally, but even though I have done these things I have told him honestly and been straight with him and he knows I would never lie to him. He knows I love him and he is so understanding, I am one of the lucky ones to have such an understanding partner/ carer.

I hope this explains a little and I am hoping no one judges what I have written because it is these judgings which can trigger me off on these things. :smile:

Hemmy xXx

 

[helena]

Hemmy, thank you so much for explaining that and, no, I would never judge you. I am truly sorry that you are battling so much and I know from your posts how hard you try to overcome these conditions. From what I have read there does seem to be more positive news on BPD so I will send you the references.

 

[Wobbles]

I was diagnosed with BPD many years ago, and the research i've been doing lately, a lot of the literature says that CPTSD is so much like BPD, that it could be used as an alternative diagnosis. That because such a high number of BPD sufferers suffered some type of child abuse, or trauma during the developing years, which is thought to cause BPD, that there's a huge correlation between the two diagnoses.
For myself, i believe that my childhood experiences, screwed up the wiring in my brain, which caused a bunch of symptoms or malfunctions, which has resulted in my thinking, feeling, and behaviour to be classified into the criteria of BPD.
If you look at the criteria for CPTSD, it's nearly identical, and at this stage of my life, i fit into the CPTSD a lot more than the BPD.

(BPD= Borderline Personality DIsorder)

 

[anthony]

This is a common misdiagnosis actually wobbles. Shrinks diagnose BPD instead of CPTSD, or they try and tell you that you have both. If you had BPD prior to trauma, then it would be more factual, however, as you eluded yourself, if you have endured longevity of childhood trauma then BPD is not appropriate to use, instead CPTSD is the more accurate as it fits both the personality and traumatic aspects, being the symptoms from trauma and the behaviour from longevity of trauma specific to childhood abuse. Physicians also do this with DID, in that the give this diagnose to people who actually have CPTSD. You don't have both, you have CPTSD only unless the personality aspects where present before trauma. Typically as the majority of CPTSD sufferers will have endured extended abuse during their childhood years > 18 years of age, as the brain is still within developmental and behavioural change, these behaviours do mimic and fit BPD, DID, MPD, etc... but they are not present for any other reason than the trauma, which comes with the obvious symptoms associated with PTSD, hence CPTSD. Its usually about medication prescriptions, ie. you cannot legally prescribe a specific medication without x,y or z diagnosis. That is why most of the labelling is done, and for no other reason. 95% of the time, it is completely unnecessary.

The problem with personality diagnosis, is that the therapist, psychologist or psychiatrist will 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the time ask a question such as "is it easier to explain your thoughts or actions as different personalities?" or something along those lines. The moment they ask that question is the same moment they have put into your head, that yes, that is the best way to explain it. This immediately and instantaneously rules out the possibility of such a diagnosis. People go reading and fit themselves to the criteria as an explanation to what they feel, again... same result, instantaneously they have talked themselves into something that is not factual, then they present to their physician with the criteria already within their head to try and get the diagnosis they want. I am currently in the midst of reading a lot on personality disorders... and the end result keeps coming up the same. Very few people in the world actually legitimately have an actual personality disorder. They are used as a diagnosis after trauma, which presents with symptoms more readily to PTSD or CPTSD than Bi-Polar, MPD, DID or BPD. Shrinks are getting a bit nutty and blasé in handing out diagnosis nowadays.

 

[Wobbles]

Hi Anthony,

Thanks so much for your post. It makes a huge amount of sense and certainly fits in with what I've been thinking for at least a year now. My symptoms only began after my fathers suicide when I was 16. This in itself was an extremely traumatic experience, and then the events that followed, along with the treatment I received from my mother, as well as having absolutely no support, amount to being a very traumatic time for me. My depression really kicked in, and then at around the age of 20, the 'BPD' symptoms really kicked in. But all of those can also be attributed to PTSD/CPTSD.

I have believed for a long time that if I received treatment for the above trauma, as well as how I was treated, neglected, psychologically manipulated, brain washed and abused as a child by my mother then most if not all of my symptoms would disperse. It's simply a case of having not resolved any of the traumatic issues and experiences i've had. I believe I suffer from depersonalisation, but this is due to childhood abuse and trauma.

I was not born mentally ill, with a personality disorder, with depression, knowing how to dissociate to the point where I'm, as an adult, a complete stranger to myself and my surroundings. Things happened to cause these things, and I never received support, was never encouraged to ask for support, never talked about the trauma and pain, tried to bury it all, avoid the feelings and emotions such experiences provoke, and have resorted to coping mechanisms which happen to fit into a criteria for a personality disorder.

So whether it be CPTSD/BPD/Depersonalisation or just plane mad, who knows, but what I do know, is that without such trauma, or at least with the right support during those traumatic times, I don't believe I would have the problematic and dysfunctional life I have now.
So my question is this: What the smeg do I do now?

xx

 

[anthony]

You start with your trauma and slowly begin processing it. You then move onto exposure therapy, or another way of saying that is, behavioural modification self therapy. You take what you learn, you use commonsense techniques and approaches to change your behaviours.

You stated "as well as how i was treated, neglected, psychologically manipulated, brain washed and abused as a child by my mother" which is why a physician could steer around a personality disorder, however; CPTSD already encompasses personality change. It is like labelling a person twice for the same thing, which is just stupid. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you don't have personality issues, because if you are CPTSD, then you have too, but I am saying that you shouldn't be labelled twice with something, because that just confuses the shit out of you and makes getting a more positive head space together for your own requirement to heal.

IMHO... I believe the majority of psychiatrists ceased being helpful to patients decades ago. It's like watching the movie "Patch Adams" which is based on a true story. The doctors in training have an attitude they are better, or superior than the patient, when all that does is cloud their judgement for actual treatment. The one really snotty guy went to Patch asking him for help to get a patient to eat. He could throw all the drugs and knowledge in the world to this lady, but failed to actually connect and understand her, which failed in getting her to eat. The minority of the field, Patch, could get her to eat, the majority of the industry could not. This is what we are dealing with. A profession who believe they are superior than us, the patient. You could be a genius, but when asking a doctor what's wrong, more often than not they believe they have the only answer or solution.... they are often clouded in judgement nowadays or blinded by greed.

 

[anthony]

I actually didn't have to write a whole new article on [DLMURL="http://www.ptsdforum.org/content.php?r=301-Dissociative-Identity-Disorder"]DID[/DLMURL], as bec had already written one which I could just add to as a comment. Thanks bec... made life much easier.

 

[smitten]

I was diagnosed with a personality disorder (specific type not listed), Dysthymic Disorder and PTSD. In reading more about personality disorders I am pretty confident that I know which one as the description fits me very well but I am not formally diagnosed with it.

 

[Deleted member 5760]

This metaphor may be misplaced - but I've always thought of it this way when diagnosing a mental illness :

It would almost be like a vet diagnosing an animal. You can look at the animal and you can ascertain certain physical symptoms. But you cant ask a dog 'how are you feeling?', etc. Nobody will ever know exactly what is going through someone's mind. Of course, you can ask a human 'how are you feeling?'. But you honestly can't sum that up with simple words. This makes diagnosis hard. And what you may be feeling one day, may differ to what you feel the next. You also may be struggling with how you are feeling, and thus, may be somewhat unable to actually answer that question. If you have a broken bone and you get an xray - there's the answer. You can look at the xray and say 'ok, you have broken your arm'. A diagnosis with mental illness is so much harder. Because you can't 'see' the problem with something as simple and as conclusive as an x ray. It depends so much on what a person is willing to reveal not only to their T, but also to themselves. And that could change on a day to day basis depending on how you are coping or not coping in that particular moment.

 

[gdf]

Don't want to be controversial but I'll just toss this out as an IMO thought.

Sometimes I think T's are a little too liberal with the diagnosis of BPD. It seems like it is getting to be a waste-basket diagnosis these days. If someone disagrees a little too much, or is a little too argumentative or too "whiny" or needy then "poof" BPD. I also think that T's have trouble telling what's what sometimes...and in an effort please insurance companies, they pursue diagnoses for the sake of being able to bill for payments. Sometimes it is to "help" the patient so they can use their insurance but the result is over-diagnosis. The problem is this follows a person along with their records and more often the printed word in the chart is the stronger opinion and will win out over the patient's which I find incredibly sad. If you argue about the BPD diagnosis it just proves the point of it being in there so we're kind of da---- if we do and da--- if we don't.

I think we all have a little personality flaw to some degree and I think it shows up more when PTSD flares up. I become very frustrated with (medical) doctors who are constantly labeling me with generalized anxiety disorder which basically means you have anxiety about everything 24/7 and I don't. I am anxious in very specific environments yet people are constantly trying to medicate me for it. Then, if you don't swallow the drugs they feel you need they get frustrated. A lot of family doctors have taken on the role of treating mental illness, especially more common things like anxiety disorders and depression, because of the shortage of psychiatrists in Ohio. I think that is why it is important to have a good T who can discuss diagnoses with the family physician to get medication right otherwise it is very frustrating and disappointing. With some diagnoses, you have to put some time in with a T to know for sure and BPD and PTSD are a couple. Dysthymia is another (but it is easier to determine by a good history). Just my random thoughts for consideration.

Gina

 

[James B.]

Gina, I could not agree more with your observation of "waste basket diagnosis" regarding BPD, and the simple reasons you stated. This has happened to me on numerous occasions, including by a physicians assistant (!) While I was in severe pain from scaitica, having suffered at this MD's hands for over five months to get a hand full of xrays and an MRI. Since I didn't like how long it taking, poof: I had BPD.

Wastebasket diagnosis? You nailed it.

I spent over three years working in-house as live-in overnight "counselor" (official job title) in a mental home with up to eight severely mentally disabled clients, the term "organic mental illness" was used.

From my discussions with the staff, some of whom had masters degrees and were way into truama therapy stuff as well, they told me:

An "organic mental illness" (schizophrenia, BPD, and schizoaffective) came on in the late teens, early 20's resulting in the sufferer's life being irrevocably changed, meaning they'd lose it, and wake up in a mental hospital. No exceptions. No faking it.

In all cases, according to the staffs own words, a person can almost always tell from the beginning of a converstation, that an "organic mental illness" was present. You could tell. These people were "insane" - period. There was never, repeat never a case of a delayed onset (30's 40's 50's etc) nor was there ever any question about the severety because in-patient (state mental hospital) treatment was *the norm*.

Our clients, where I lived and was on-shift 60 hrs/week, were "doing good" that they could live in the community, at all.

Pardon me but, what a crock of shit the mental health profession is feeding people with this casual "BDP" thing. If I let my anxiety disorder go sky high, and I start drinking alcohol everyday, I can experience rapid-mood cycling and become unstable. This is *not* BPD. This is my anxiety disorder (already wacking my judgement to shreds) along with my unhealed trauma, on booze!

Will not accept here-say from others on this topic as valid - because: I got this information from mental health professionals who were in the trenches and worked *every day* with "organic mentally ill" people - they *knew* the scoop. Period.

FWIW, that's my feedback on the subject, your milelage and information/sources my vary. I accept the above as fact, you are free to believe as you will.

 

[Iam]

I know this has nothing to do with your BP discussion but, wow, reading this makes me realize how lucky I am to have my T.....Even though he has diagnosed me with PTSD he has not put it in writing (at least I don't think he did) because he doesn't like labels. He feels that the MD's over medicate and anytime there is a diagnosis like mine they want to throw pills at it. He had me go off my antidepressants, with my MD's knowledge, so we could access my feelings since I was so repressed and numb. He has said that it may be necessary for me to continue with low doses at some point, but would prefer I not be on them right now. I am finding he is right because the anxiety attacks are making it much easier for me to pinpoint my feelings and where they are coming from. Can't say I like it but it is productive. I am hoping (maybe fruitlessly) that I can remain med free. Though I have to say that it also scares me. My first T said I should stay on them as a buffer in case something triggered another major emotional breakdown, which is a HUGE fear for me. Anyway....thanks for the discussion. It has made me even more thankful for and more trusting of my T ;o)