Other PTSD vs C-PTSD vs personality disorders...?

[Charbella]

Why so harsh? Why not allow a genuine, thoughtful discussion of this issue that may not entirely align with your point of view?

Because it doesn’t align with medical knowledge. It states inaccuracy as fact. If the person was stating it as an opinion, he/she is entitled to that.

People seem to confuse trauma as an automatic PTSD or CPTSD diagnosis, that isn’t true. Horrible childhood doesn’t automatically make it so someone has CPTSD nor PTSD. So for someone to say that some do not have all the symptoms is an inaccuracy. If someone doesn’t have all the symptoms they shouldn’t have been diagnosed with the disorder. But as stated they maybe don’t see it in themselves because …they have PTSD.

I was as harsh as the poster…using her exact word. Because there was a point to be made. Tell me I’m wrong, you are also entitled to your opinion. If you felt I attacked her or she does, sorry that wasn’t my intent, my intent was to clearly state that the sentence was wrong.

 

[Ecdysis]

I don't know...

I've had C-PTSD since childhood and then PTSD additionally from specific trauma in my teenage years.

For many, many years, I didn't realise what PTSD and C-PTSD are, what the difference is, or that I had either condition.

Since getting diagnosed, my understanding of both conditions has evolved hugely.

At the beginning, my understanding was wildly different to what it is now. Also, initially, I was barely even able to speak about 1% of my trauma and certainly wasn't able to access all traumatic experiences or feelings about it.

I'm sure that I had quite a defensive, self-protective stance initially and only processed as much information about PTSD as I could bear emotionally.

I think it's important to remember that everyone's on their individual trauma and recovery journey and that these journeys can be very different. Some people never do therapy and never speak about their trauma at all. Some do decades of trauma therapy. And then there's everything in between. Some people are very skilled at verbalising their experiences, others are very clumsy about it and don't get "heard" and get unfairly dismissed.

Just because someone's trauma journey and their understanding of it is different to yours, it doesn't invalidate your journey, and imo neither should your journey invalidate theirs.

Edit to add: I've found the DSM and ICD wildly unhelpful over the years too. There's huge and deep criticism about it. So what you consider to be medical "facts" is just an evolving understanding. Not so long ago in our history, people who were mentally ill were considered to be possessed by demons etc. I'm sure our understanding of medical "fact" will look very different in 100 years than how it does today.

 

[Charbella]

I'm sure that I had quite a defensive, self-protective stance initially and only processed as much information about PTSD as I could bear emotionally.

Yes I acknowledged that

Now you denying a diagnosis that does actually fit you, that’s a whole other issue that most of us diagnosed with it can totally relate to.

because I do understand it. However I also feel it’s over diagnosed and that because there are so many disorders that overlap saying that you don’t have PTSD symptoms but you do have PTSD or CPTSD is inaccurate. Even the poster said that symptoms are a lot like OSDD.

 

[anthony]

I've had C-PTSD since childhood and then PTSD additionally from specific trauma in my teenage years.

I'm not sure a dual diagnosis, self or otherwise, is accurate. Complex is an extended form of the underlying diagnosis, PTSD, adding further complicated symptoms. You either have PTSD or CPTSD, but both is not applicable. The DSM doesn't have CPTSD, but to my knowledge, the ICD CPTSD is diagnosed if PTSD is not accurate to fully cover the symptoms. Every person who has CPTSD, technically has PTSD already.

The symptoms matter most, the labels just put a name to them.

 

[Ecdysis]

I'm not sure a dual diagnosis, self or otherwise, is accurate. Complex is an extended form of the underlying diagnosis, PTSD, adding further complicated symptoms. You either have PTSD or CPTSD, but both is not applicable. The DSM doesn't have CPTSD, but to my knowledge, the ICD CPTSD is diagnosed if PTSD is not accurate to fully cover the symptoms. Every person who has CPTSD, technically has PTSD already.

The symptoms matter most, the labels just put a name to them.

Who knows?

I got a PTSD diagnosis about 25 years ago, long before C-PTSD was ever a thing.

Now C-PTSD is partly a thing (ICD) and partly not (DSM).

It's clear now, that additionally to the teenage trauma that led to PTSD, there's also early childhood trauma that's led to the C-PTSD.

The teenage trauma would've led to PTSD independently of the early childhood stuff, but that's there too and is relatively distinct.

I think all our labels and current state of understanding are imperfect at best, so I try to make use of what's helpful and try to leave the rest...

 

[Helpfulmom34]

There is a negative stigma around personality disorders in the USA, people tend to sympathize more with PTSD(something I've heard multiple types of professionals say).

I disagree that "all people with long term childhood trauma and CPTSD have a personality disorder".

I am no professional however, there is no long term study backing this and if there is one exemption then that wording is flawed(I am one, I have CPTSD was diagnosed by someone who specialized in BPD) and she was adimant I don't have a personality disorder(I asked cause my mother had pushed, that she felt I had one).

The type of thinking that comes with this is common of those who keep to thinking that is considered antiquated by those who go through continuing education/stay up to date/specialize in personality disorders. I've listened to other professionals say this comes of that era/thinking that hindered treatment/treatment options for those **who do have personality disorders** and yes one of the harmful thought patterns in that was **that x one is too hard to treat**(though most who specialize in x personality disorder obviously don't feel that way). There's been a lot of growth and development in the field since those days.
Even the textbook example, of BPD, has been a condition where there are workbooks, specialists, medication options(it **can be treated**), that is stressed by those who specialize(now). Even ASPD, has those who specialize (and simply adapt treatment to something that aligns with how that individual thinks/is driven). Spoiler: most with ASPD aren't dysfunctional or evil.

The antiquated thinking, was lumped in in a time when harmful steretoypes of how "treatable things are"(back in the times when those disorders, weren't as well understood).

I say this as someone who did the reading, spoke to those who specialize in more then one type of personality disorder for years, given I was close to folks with them.

Though honestly every trauma expert I've listened to who helped with CPTSd had a particular personality disorder they personally had a hard time considering/maybe treating due to personal hang ups, which in my observation, may have to do with someone simply being beyond their comfort zone (they aren't personally specialized in it and rather then admit it's beyond them that way, they may turn to judgement of it). Should they? Absolutely not(it's not professional)but it happens(they are people too, and flawed).

What would I advise to you?

If I had found someone who thought I may have a personality disorder because some symptoms overlap with CPTSD and their thinking patterns, tend to be ones that **those who specialize in it**, would frown at, because it **limits treatment options** or leaves them with a distaste for something **they believe I have **, I would seek someone who specializes in **that personality disorder**, and specialize in therapies and methods(for that) and would be honest with them.

Having what you have isn't about the stigma(though yes, facing people like this and facing your own surprise/shock) is something that comes up due to stereotypes and stigma, and snap judgements.

Sometimes people "met one person with x", sometimes they "knew someone who", "knew someone who knew someone ", sometimes they have trauma tied to"(what they may even unprofessionally assume), some didn't continue their education(and it shows) or feel beyond their depth, or are a professional triggered by the idea of(stories they'd heard, fears in their own minds) they don't specialize in it(so they have hang ups and stigma too).

None of that is most important. That is snap judgement and fear, that is a them issue and a sign to you that that individual isn't in the place to treat you, or know you for the complete picture of who you are to help you see a way through.

The stigma is terrible and unfair and people stay silent , some don't even seek help or they stay anonymous because they have to biuld up significant trust to be honest about this bit(if they do have a personality disorder) and that's sad and unfair and I acknowledge that.

However, so do many face many forms of stigma even by professionals(not just those with personality disorders).

So they are not alone..but the way forward isn't in focusing on that or those who behave unprofessionally (it hurts, and isn't "right " and surely sometimes we need to process where we weren't actively listened to, etc, where we didn't get effective treatment or help due to snap judgements if we as an individual have ever faced that sort of thing).

But the way forward isn't just acknowledging the emotions/unfairness/lost opportunities, it's finding professionals who don't have stigma, don't pass that kind of judgement(and finding several of them even) to get a clear answer not laced in judgement and having their help navigating helpful therapies/meds/bigger picture where we are supported in a way that isn't antiquated because it isn't helpful to helping you feel better(not perfect,not unlike you, but helped just the same), better for your sake.

It also may mean learning to feel more accepting(in a non harmful to others) way of ourselves(being accountable yet not perpetuating stigma unto ourselves as our "own bullies", many do this to themselves regardless of label(so self compassion though really really really hard for some labels, some version of that) without *staying victim*(and not depression/shame spiraling) for example not being pray to **your unique version of 4f responses**(cause yeah, I can list at least 2 personality disorders that deal with this in unique ways) cause personality disorders are:genetic and environmental and linked to trauma(but not inherent in those with childhood trauma).

Know I am not judging you here, and wish you well(regardless of labels)and commend you seeking to be well(and moving forward with that), there are ways forward with this(said with care, by someone who has loved those with personality disorders).

 

[Helpfulmom34]

As to the CPTSD vs PTSD, bit.

Basic run down:Basically, from my understanding from trauma experts PTSD can be from a singular event(and often is) and CPTSD is from prolonged trauma(3 + mths of stresses/trauma that is considered impactful to the subconcious). That means it didn't have to register as traumatic to you on the forefront but rather to the part of the brain that is focused on emotion and instinct which we have long before we speak).

Diagnostically the two labels come from two different diagnostic manuals(CPTSD isn't in the DSM5) its in The World Health Organization's International Classification of Diseases, 11th Revision (ICD-11).This is where a lot of people may have been misdiagnosed and overdiagnosed because some professionals do or have only gone by the DSM5.

Professionals, often have a drop down these days where it either states (PTSD, chronic) or (PTSD, Complex) professionally speaking(it's a logistical difference, that doesn't bare any difference in meaning according to professionals) if you do have CPTSD. In the sense that one company may have one "drop down" or the other. They both=CPTSD.


PTSd and CPTSd have differing symptoms because one(CPTSD) is a long term nervous system injury and actually considered autoimmune due to the level of damage to the memory(though this can happen with other anxiety disorders as well).

Again, having many many symptoms in CpTSD, is another thing that makes folks likely to be misdiagnosed or overdiagnosed but it's due to the way that our brain/nervous system changes due to trauma(and the fact that trauma expression unfolds more with time) and new trauma expression shows up with time.

Ptsd, has far less symptoms, isn't considered chronic yet /doesn't carry the permiance (of carrying something for life).

The diagnosis goes: "Severe Stress Syndrome", "Actue Stress Response", "PTSD", "CPTSD", they go that way because the professional is trying to gauge if this is something that will effect one in the short term and how far into the person's life this has impacted them, each label, showing more time span the individual has been impacted, more trauma expression, more therapy with trauma symptoms only growing instead of lessening.

More in depth: So severe stress, can be given to a child whom they aren't sure will carry this forward into their future(beginning treatment),treatment continues they realize there may be a need to consider a PTSD label in the future, so they have Acute Stress Disorder, PTSD comes of "they've been in treatment maybe medication and this is still progressing", "we need to consider that this individual has Ptsd", CPTSd(they've been in therapy/meds for years, we project this will be life long).

Sincerely a mom who's talked to trauma experts, has CPTSd, listened to books by trauma experts, who's children have CPTSD(no not due to me, their upbringing).

Hope this helps.

 

[Sideways]

where it either states (PTSD, chronic) or (PTSD, Complex) professionally speaking(it's a logistical difference, that doesn't bare any difference in meaning according to professionals) if you do have CPTSD. In the sense that one company may have one "drop down" or the other. They both=CPTSD.

I suspect this happens in a number of clinics, particularly in the US where diagnosis often determines what treatment is available and how much it is going to cost.

It isn’t really a thing in other parts of the world, like Australia, where treatment is available universally and costs $x irrespective of the diagnosis.

Something else to be aware of:
PTSD may or may not be chronic. A big chunk of people who get diagnosed with PTSD recover, often without treatment, while others go on to experience PTSD as a chronic condition.

For example: say 2 patients both have PTSD from a catastrophic car accident. One may recover over the course of a couple of years, while the other may have PTSD for the rest of their life from that single traumatic event.

Complex PTSD is a different beast altogether. It is PTSD + additional symptoms. Unlike PTSD, which may or may not become a chronic condition, complex PTSD is necessarily chronic (there aren’t people who suffer Complex PTSD briefly, then recover - people with Complex PTSD have it for a long time).

That leaves you with:

• PTSD
• PTSD (chronic) (confusing, because this is often written as cPTSD!)
• Complex PTSD

Other differences between chronic ptsd and Complex PTSD include things like:

• Chronic ptsd may be from a single event, or trauma occurring over a long period, whereas complex ptsd only occurs after long-term trauma
• Chronic ptsd doesn’t contain any ‘additional’ ptsd symptoms - it is PTSD that doesn’t go away, whereas complex ptsd contains all the ptsd symptoms plus additional symptoms that arise from experiencing long-term trauma

CPTSD) is a long term nervous system injury and actually considered autoimmune

Complex PTSD, like other forms of PTSD (for example, Combat PTSD, Developmental PTSD), is a mental illness, not an autoimmune condition.

Like all forms of PTSD, it very often comes with a range of impacts on physical health, which can include impacts on the body’s autoimmune system.

Hope that’s helpful:)