Polyamory, Monogamy, Ownership.

[Stickler]

Ok...first off, I'm going to ask you not to post if you consider honest non-monogamous relationships 100% unethical and want to lambast me.
I really do not need that, I am well-practiced at beating myself up.




...Someone demanding monogamy feels like...they want to own me.
...I mean, presumably I would own them in return.
The problem there being I really don't care that deeply if my significant someone has other sex partners.

I realized this when I realized my naggy ex-boyfriend (a) had enough sex drive for 2 women and (b) would have been WAY easier for me to live with if he'd had another girlfriend. I realized that would not have bothered me provided I had my designated time with him. However, him being nervous, jealous for no good reason, spastic, crabby, and horny...ugh...

If I'm happily cared for, and we work it out in advance it is ok.

Monogamy's hard work for me. No close friends, I might get too friendly.

...But if I clearly state that i'm not monogamous, people are going to generally look down on me and I will be rejected a lot.

So I can be extremely unhappy alone or extremely unhappy in someone's ( metaphorical ) cage. Owned. Having to obey someone else for crumbs of love or cessation of abuse.

Not just in matters of sex, but like with my ex-wife, I had to stop getting most of my needs met. They were just not going to be met...not only my strong desire for mutually pleasurable sex, which she hated...but also cuddles, talking, affection.

I was owned by her...and those needs were an inconvenience to her. I FELT owned.

Had I had an open marriage, I would have had the mental wherewithal to realize how bad things were.

...is there love that doesn't involve squashing you into a cage for crumbs?

 

[Sideways]

Using the phrase "non-monogamous" I can actually hear you beating yourself up about this through the screen.

Other people negotiate "open relationships" really often these days...As long as there's mutual love & respect, and it's not driven by poor self-esteem on either part, I think if you maybe change the language it actually sounds pretty, well, common...?

 

[Kintsugi]

Heya Stick.

I was raised in an environment where polyamorous relationships were extremely normal and prevasive from the age of around nine onward. I've noticed that they've become more and more popular over the past 5-10 years or so. There are different forms, of course. When I was younger, I was more used to seeing relationships where there was commitment between two people with a rotating third (and, rarely, fourth) party that both partners would agree on. Sometimes "the third" was attached to one person, sometimes both partners were looking for "a third." I still know many of these people today (although, come to think of it, have never seen a long-lasting "third").

Today, I would say the more popular form of polyamory is the "open" relationship, where people are free to sleep with or otherwise be intimate with whomever they'd like with no consequences. These seem to work pretty well, I think, and again, they seem to be booming in popularity.

For my part, I am a naturally monogamous person, but I share your feelings that monogamy means feeling "owned" by another person. I deal with that feeling and try to manage it and cope with it if I feel I cannot live without the same privilege (to hold my partner to the same standard of monogamy).

However, if I can live without that guarantee of monogamy, I simply don't commit. I may commit time, energy, emotion, what-have-you to someone, but I don't commit in the sense that I never entangle myself in a "real" relationship. That way, I'm "free" to do what I please.

On the other hand, that means some of those people will eventually become disinterested, because they view the relationship as "going nowhere," which, I suppose if they're not just able to live in and enjoy the moment, it isn't, because if I'm not committing to them, it means I simply don't care enough to be jealous about what they do when I'm not around.

I realize I'm not really offering any solutions, here, just experiences and my own musings. Very interesting topic, Stickler. :tup:

 

[Crow]

I've a few friends who make polyamory work for them. Each spouse has a significant other. For one spouse the so changes frequently but for the other, the so has been constant for five years. They do things all together and then in couples and threesomes. They are all very happy but it's quadruple the work of a mono relationship. I could never do it! I'm definitely not emotionally mature enough for more than one primary relationship.

A guy I used to sleep with on whims has an open marriage. Each is allowed to f*ck & do whatever w no prior approval. I personally think their marriage is majorly f*cked up but they thrive on the drama. I'm sure it works well for some.

The love without the cage? I've got to believe it exists and is possible for me or all 'this' is for naught.

:hug:

 

[Silentwhisper43]

I know in my life I've been in all sorts of different styles of relationship. The one on one monogamous. The open relationship. Dating multiple people at the same time, none serious. I've had sex with open married couples and dated married people in open relationships. All of them worked on some level for us at the time with no judgment. The biggest factor in all of them was honesty and openness from the start. There are plenty of ways this can work and for you to feel love. I even know of a friend who is dating a married couple and they are moving in together and all are in love.

There is definitely a fear of being judged, I'm an open minded person and I don't like it when people try to "own" me as you say because this leaves no room for love and trust, ownership in my opinion does not come from love.

It was hard for me when I was dating 3 to 4 people at once because I felt afraid at first to tell them what I really wanted but I owed it to myself and them so we could all make an informed decision on what to do with our own hearts and bodies. It as surprisingly freeing and because of how honest I was they could be honest back there was a lot of stability and trust because they knew from the get go what they were getting into, and I was laying down the ground rules and boundaries from the start.

I don't know if this helps at all I guess I'm trying to say you're not alone. I don't think ownership has any place in love and monogamous relationships have caused me a lot of stress because I hate to feel like I have to fit into a mold that is made for other people.

 

[EveHarrington]

Interesting concept-----demanding monogamy.

Demanding?

Sigh.

It feels very controlling to me. I understand the "owned" feeling and I dislike it, too. <rat in a cage>

Many jump to commitment quickly. I much rather take my time in getting to know someone, no demands, no restraints, no expectations. I can be me; you can be you. If at some point down the line we decide that we want a commitment, then great! If not, that's fine, too. Live in the moment without either of us trying to control the other with some sort of label.

I've told people before that I don't want to be owned! The second I feel owned, I'm out the door. Anymore I realize it's hard to find people on the same wavelength because of the societal expectation of monogamy and commitment.

It's funny, I've casually dated people in the past who were very ok with the casual part. It was other people who would stick their noses in and tell us we were doing it wrong, needed to define things between us, etc. Annoying yet comical!

But on the other side of things, I don't ever want to own or control someone else. Love is not about control.

I've had similar thoughts-----"ugh, you're too horny and I don't want sex right now. This would be so much easier if you could find someone else, too." But then my view is put down and I'm told about expectations in sexual relationships-----this being the point where I start to tune them out.

Agree much with Simons assessment that without a commitment many view a relationship as going nowhere. Nowhere? I can throw all of my love at someone and no commitment is required. Then again I am not so concerned with typical lifetime milestones-----wedding/marriage, kids, etc which very much put time restraints on many relationships, requiring them to move at a minimum speed in order to be deemed viable.

I'm only (!) looking for love, true love. If I can find that, I will consider it a success. All of the rest of the stuff that comes along with relationships will be icing on the cake.

Listen to Alanis Morisette's "you owe me nothing in return". This is the love I am looking for and I believe it exists.

Sorry if I've rambled off topic-----

 

[Sandstone]

...is there love that doesn't involve squashing you into a cage for crumbs?

Yes.

I think it depends on finding a partner who holds roughly similar views to yours, and then both being willing to put in the work to negotiate how you live and, much more importantly, how you change together. That is different from "someone demanding monogamy". I can't see how a relationship can work when either party thinks they can make major demands of the other as of right.
It seems to me that making love work is mainly about combining generosity and trust. I know that for myself I can only do that in a relationship that is physically monogamous on both sides, so I would never have ventured into a relationship with someone who told me they didn't share that view. But we have still had to work out together what is the right balance in what you might call emotional monogamy. That involves all those long tortuous conversations about "I feel excluded when you spend so much time with X", "I need someone other than you to share Y experience with".

The thing is, they are all about "How do we make this work, for us?", and it sounds to me from your words that you haven't experienced that committed mutuality.
"demanding ... own me...nervous, jealous ..extremely unhappy in someone's ( metaphorical ) cage. .. Having to obey someone else for crumbs of love or cessation of abuse….needs were an inconvenience" All those sound like relationships that are problematical in themselves, not because of the number of people involved.

(I'm worried that sounds critical, but it isn't meant that way. It's more sadness that it sounds as if you haven't yet had the experience of being with someone who gets you and values who you are)

 

[corvidae]

i hope it exists too...the not-being-owned-or-being-judged-for-wanting-open-intimate-relationshipS. still trying to suss out what that actually means; found a lot of things it isn't, that's for sure.

 

[Candleflames]

There is a phrase I'm quite fond of these past couple of decades: It's trade offs, so pick your issue.

What I mean is that decisions are really just picking what is right for you. Relationships are hard to navigate and one way isn't better than another way except for your own personal choice. Monogamy is hard and has a price to be paid but so does polyamory. You can find a loving fulfilling relationship or more when you you know what it is that lets you feel fulfilled, have the confidence to ask for your needs to be met and the ability to reciprocate. It's ok to want what it is you are asking for. You are being very self aware. It's also ok to need some time to figure things out.

In case you are curious, I've been married for 20 years 17 monogamously and the past 3 poly. For us the monogamous years were unnecessarily difficult. It wasn't until we became poly and opened up ourselves to communication and life's possibilities did we really become happy together.