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PTSD and 12 Step Programs
- Post starter cragger65
- Start date
- Status
- Moderator
- #2
Nicolette
Supporter Admin
Hi Cragger and welcome to the forum. I have over time seen discussions about 12 step programs. Have you tried using the search functions in the grey bar towards the top of your screen...more on the right?
reallydown
Diamond Member
Call me crazy but I honestly don't think that something as complex and as stubborn as ptsd can be solved in 12 steps...but I'd be curious to know if it actually ends up working for anyone.
I have made no secret I think ptsd is curable.
I have walked through this process, and I think I could help others do as I did, and have similar results.
There is more to this than ending the perpetual flashbacks, nightmares, startle reflex, and the other symptoms of PTSD.
PTSD has impacted every aspect of your life. Nuff said here. I don't think anyone would disagree with this.
Once the symptoms have subsided, who are you?
When this happened with me, I was gratefull, but also perplexed. I asked myself, now what do I do? What comes next? Who am I, and where do I go from here. And most of all, am I now a healthy person.
In my former life, I specialized in skewed thinking and inappropriate conduct. And I knew it. When I had PTSD I was powerless over this, in spite of my best efforts.
Going back to that time in March 2004, I knew I was past the symptoms of PTSD, but I also knew most of the way I put things together was not very good.
_________________________________________________________________
Drugs and alcohol had long been a part of my life since 17. Eventually my family had to intervene, and I had to go to a treatment center.
All treatment centers for alcohol and drug addiction, have the basis of their treatment in the 12 steps, usually they follow the original 12 steps and the writings of the founder of AA, Bill Wilson.
I was disgusted when I got there and was informed this was what I was going to have to do. I read through them, and thought yeah right.
But I soon saw that people who were doing these steps were improving dramatically as I watched. You can't argue with results. This gave me cause for hope, and I embraced this program.
It is a simple program, but it is also a program of action. The actions you take are oriented towards looking at yourself, and taking an inventory of yourself. You do not do this all by your loneseome, you need help, so to be thorough you do it with others. People who will call you on your shit.
I went through this, and while it was instrumental in learning new ways and remaining sober, it did NOT alleviate the symptoms of PTSD. PTSD was still kicking my ass.
________________________________________________________________
We all recognize the devastating effects PTSD has had on our lives. I was in the unique position of finding something that eliminated the symptoms, but at the same time I had to consider the aftermath. How do you recover from what PTSD has made you into?
I remembered from AA that back in the 30's or 40's, when AA was getting it's feet on the ground, a bunch of alcoholics voluntarily submitted to some psychiatric testing, such as was available at that time, thinking this would be helpfull in learning more about alcoholism. To their horror, the testing showed that all of them were self-centered and immature.
To me, that just goes hand in hand in being mentally ill. It's not meant as a put down, it's part of what we become over time, in trying to survive day to day with such a debilitating state of mind.
12 step programs emphasize living a life of complete and rigorous honesty. There is more to this than in refraining from telling a lie when asked a difficult question. Every day you have to examine your thoughts, your actions, your motives, and try to determine what is behind them.
________________________________________________________________
I did not have a point of reference when I found myself at this point, so I just decided to keep doing what I was doing, which was playing a stringed instrument ( a 5 string banjo ) right and left hand, working, and going to AA meetings.
At first my world was still skewed, but I was getting better each day. Within a period of about 3 months, I had grown into a new person.
And for a full year, as I have described multiple times on this forum, when I awoke, every morning I could literally feel how my mind was coming together. The power and clarity of this transforming process was a wondrous thing to experience, and perhaps the most profound experience I had in the healing process. To this date, I have not heard of anyone else describing anything like it.
_______________________________________________________________
A 12 step program will not cure PTSD. In my opinion, a 12 step program, closely modeled after AA's 12 step program could make an effective aftercare program.
A few weeks ago we discussed neuroplasticity. Consider this. Everything you do, everything you think, everything you encounter, causes your brain to respond to it. This takes place, partly, because of the way we store memory. We form new axonal and motor neuron connections. This in turn becomes part of our biological makeup, and becomes the apparatus that determines how you process your world. The best thing you can do is to make this work for you. So far it's worked against you. Do everything you can to turn your mind around. It is not difficult.
It has been 4 & 1/2 years since that day in March 2004. I have not had PTSD symptoms at any time since then.
My life has become better than anything I ever dreamed of.
I have walked through this process, and I think I could help others do as I did, and have similar results.
There is more to this than ending the perpetual flashbacks, nightmares, startle reflex, and the other symptoms of PTSD.
PTSD has impacted every aspect of your life. Nuff said here. I don't think anyone would disagree with this.
Once the symptoms have subsided, who are you?
When this happened with me, I was gratefull, but also perplexed. I asked myself, now what do I do? What comes next? Who am I, and where do I go from here. And most of all, am I now a healthy person.
In my former life, I specialized in skewed thinking and inappropriate conduct. And I knew it. When I had PTSD I was powerless over this, in spite of my best efforts.
Going back to that time in March 2004, I knew I was past the symptoms of PTSD, but I also knew most of the way I put things together was not very good.
_________________________________________________________________
Drugs and alcohol had long been a part of my life since 17. Eventually my family had to intervene, and I had to go to a treatment center.
All treatment centers for alcohol and drug addiction, have the basis of their treatment in the 12 steps, usually they follow the original 12 steps and the writings of the founder of AA, Bill Wilson.
I was disgusted when I got there and was informed this was what I was going to have to do. I read through them, and thought yeah right.
But I soon saw that people who were doing these steps were improving dramatically as I watched. You can't argue with results. This gave me cause for hope, and I embraced this program.
It is a simple program, but it is also a program of action. The actions you take are oriented towards looking at yourself, and taking an inventory of yourself. You do not do this all by your loneseome, you need help, so to be thorough you do it with others. People who will call you on your shit.
I went through this, and while it was instrumental in learning new ways and remaining sober, it did NOT alleviate the symptoms of PTSD. PTSD was still kicking my ass.
________________________________________________________________
We all recognize the devastating effects PTSD has had on our lives. I was in the unique position of finding something that eliminated the symptoms, but at the same time I had to consider the aftermath. How do you recover from what PTSD has made you into?
I remembered from AA that back in the 30's or 40's, when AA was getting it's feet on the ground, a bunch of alcoholics voluntarily submitted to some psychiatric testing, such as was available at that time, thinking this would be helpfull in learning more about alcoholism. To their horror, the testing showed that all of them were self-centered and immature.
To me, that just goes hand in hand in being mentally ill. It's not meant as a put down, it's part of what we become over time, in trying to survive day to day with such a debilitating state of mind.
12 step programs emphasize living a life of complete and rigorous honesty. There is more to this than in refraining from telling a lie when asked a difficult question. Every day you have to examine your thoughts, your actions, your motives, and try to determine what is behind them.
________________________________________________________________
I did not have a point of reference when I found myself at this point, so I just decided to keep doing what I was doing, which was playing a stringed instrument ( a 5 string banjo ) right and left hand, working, and going to AA meetings.
At first my world was still skewed, but I was getting better each day. Within a period of about 3 months, I had grown into a new person.
And for a full year, as I have described multiple times on this forum, when I awoke, every morning I could literally feel how my mind was coming together. The power and clarity of this transforming process was a wondrous thing to experience, and perhaps the most profound experience I had in the healing process. To this date, I have not heard of anyone else describing anything like it.
_______________________________________________________________
A 12 step program will not cure PTSD. In my opinion, a 12 step program, closely modeled after AA's 12 step program could make an effective aftercare program.
A few weeks ago we discussed neuroplasticity. Consider this. Everything you do, everything you think, everything you encounter, causes your brain to respond to it. This takes place, partly, because of the way we store memory. We form new axonal and motor neuron connections. This in turn becomes part of our biological makeup, and becomes the apparatus that determines how you process your world. The best thing you can do is to make this work for you. So far it's worked against you. Do everything you can to turn your mind around. It is not difficult.
It has been 4 & 1/2 years since that day in March 2004. I have not had PTSD symptoms at any time since then.
My life has become better than anything I ever dreamed of.
Anonymoose
Silver Member
I've found Clutterer's Anonymous, Alanon, ACOAs and Debtors Anonymous meetings helpful. Here is a link to the [DLMURL="http://www.proactivechange.com/12steps/"]Proactive 12 Steps[/DLMURL]. I've found it useful in managing my PTSD.
- Post starter
- #8
Sorry folks;
I've had only bad experiences in AA. I think the program itself is wonderful, but I'm not an alcoholic or drug addict, I consider myself to have very good character traits, no one has told me otherwise ever. I'm definately not selfish, In fact, I always put others feelings, needs, etc. over my own. If anything I'm a caretaker.
For me, going to AA for over 3 years relieved my lonliness and gave me a sense of belonging, but I also got a ton of secondary wounding! People are very judgemental their about PTSD, never believed I was an alcoholic or even called me a 'dry drunk' or a 'not yetter' etc. All I've ever done to cope with the PTSD symptoms is lie in a fetal position and contemplate suicide. I don't do self pity...........just want the pain to end.
I found myself extremely judged, abused and SO MANY PREDATORY MEN it was unbelievable. People do not have good boundaries.........not a place for a survivor. A bunch of sick people trying to help a bunch of other sick people can be very dangerous for me.
Just my two bits........no offense. But I still believe in the tweleve steps, just watch out for the people........they certainly do have a lot of selfishness, perversions and characters flaws.
I've had only bad experiences in AA. I think the program itself is wonderful, but I'm not an alcoholic or drug addict, I consider myself to have very good character traits, no one has told me otherwise ever. I'm definately not selfish, In fact, I always put others feelings, needs, etc. over my own. If anything I'm a caretaker.
For me, going to AA for over 3 years relieved my lonliness and gave me a sense of belonging, but I also got a ton of secondary wounding! People are very judgemental their about PTSD, never believed I was an alcoholic or even called me a 'dry drunk' or a 'not yetter' etc. All I've ever done to cope with the PTSD symptoms is lie in a fetal position and contemplate suicide. I don't do self pity...........just want the pain to end.
I found myself extremely judged, abused and SO MANY PREDATORY MEN it was unbelievable. People do not have good boundaries.........not a place for a survivor. A bunch of sick people trying to help a bunch of other sick people can be very dangerous for me.
Just my two bits........no offense. But I still believe in the tweleve steps, just watch out for the people........they certainly do have a lot of selfishness, perversions and characters flaws.
- Post starter
- #10
TLight, I am sorry you had those experiences. The AA meetings I found much as you describe. Al Anon was a MUCH safer environment, but like yourself I found I didn't really belong since we didn't share history. However, I agree with you that there is something to the 12-step approach. Have you had any positive feelings/thought/results of the steps themselves, on your own maybe?
Just curious
Just curious
hollyberry
Silver Member
I agree with Tlight. Steps are great but the people don't have a clue. They don't understand ptsd at all. Once had a member tell me to go jumb in front of a truck on the highway,(during the meeting) cause we are all sick of you crying. I've had people tell me I shouldn't be taking my meds, guy said meds where the reason I cryed all the time. People told me I cryed all the time cause I hadn't worked a 4th step. They did more harm then good. I know I have to stay clean, I can do that without going to meetings and listening to the other crap.
Cragger;
Yes, the tweleve steps are essential to the way I have to live. I've always tried 'forcing' things to happen, worried to death about things, always been a woman alone since I was 13 years old (for that matter since I was born), so spirituality has saved me.
I practice devoted meditation and prayer and I turn things over all the time. As far as 'keeping my side of the street clean' I'm almost too clean at that.........apologizing for things I shouldn't apologize for. Typical abuse survivor behavior.
In fact, I just did it again just yesterday. I stopped going to AA about 3 weeks ago due to the predatory and abusive behavior the men were exhibiting. Prior to that, I had established a 'friendship' with a man who had 20 years sobriety. For the first few weeks, on the phone, on walks, etc. he was extremely respectful. I thanked him repeatedly for showing me this wonderful respect........no other man in my life had done that. However, I made it repeatedly clear I was in no way ready for a relationship, but enjoyed his company and spending time together. I thought it was very healing for me to have a male friend.
Slowly, I started telling him how the extreme sexual abuse had affected my life and what it was like with PTSD, and all the sexual harassment and disrespect I'd been through and how devastating it was for me. I even told him I'd been hospitalized twice, had 3 suicide attempts, etc. He seemed to really listen and care. I thought, this is good, trusting a 'male' as a friend might be really healing for me.
Well, he kept pushing for a relationship, and I had to politely but firmly tell him, yet again, that I needed his friendship.........I need a male friend and can't promise anything else right now.........I was so afraid of him getting hurt. I repeatedly said if he couldn't do that, that's fine. I want no one to get hurt. I was so concerned about HIS feelings.
He said; Yes, I can be your friend, but we can be hellacious f*ck buddies too!
I was furious. I flew into an anger and told him to get out of my life and he was very disrespectful and insensitive, especially after what I'd shared with him. I was not disrespectful, didn't call him an 'idiot' (which I should have, but he'd told me how much this had damaged him in his childhood and he can't let people call him that.......but what an ignorant idiot he truly was).
After 3 weeks I felt bad for my anger and felt sorry for possibly hurting him. I called him and apologized for the fury of my response............I should never have done this. My response was appropriate. Now I regret apologizing. He never even apologized to me!!!!!
Anyway, anyone who attends these meetings.......watch out.
Hollyberry........I'm so sorry you got abused by these people. They were full of sh*t.
Yes, the tweleve steps are essential to the way I have to live. I've always tried 'forcing' things to happen, worried to death about things, always been a woman alone since I was 13 years old (for that matter since I was born), so spirituality has saved me.
I practice devoted meditation and prayer and I turn things over all the time. As far as 'keeping my side of the street clean' I'm almost too clean at that.........apologizing for things I shouldn't apologize for. Typical abuse survivor behavior.
In fact, I just did it again just yesterday. I stopped going to AA about 3 weeks ago due to the predatory and abusive behavior the men were exhibiting. Prior to that, I had established a 'friendship' with a man who had 20 years sobriety. For the first few weeks, on the phone, on walks, etc. he was extremely respectful. I thanked him repeatedly for showing me this wonderful respect........no other man in my life had done that. However, I made it repeatedly clear I was in no way ready for a relationship, but enjoyed his company and spending time together. I thought it was very healing for me to have a male friend.
Slowly, I started telling him how the extreme sexual abuse had affected my life and what it was like with PTSD, and all the sexual harassment and disrespect I'd been through and how devastating it was for me. I even told him I'd been hospitalized twice, had 3 suicide attempts, etc. He seemed to really listen and care. I thought, this is good, trusting a 'male' as a friend might be really healing for me.
Well, he kept pushing for a relationship, and I had to politely but firmly tell him, yet again, that I needed his friendship.........I need a male friend and can't promise anything else right now.........I was so afraid of him getting hurt. I repeatedly said if he couldn't do that, that's fine. I want no one to get hurt. I was so concerned about HIS feelings.
He said; Yes, I can be your friend, but we can be hellacious f*ck buddies too!
I was furious. I flew into an anger and told him to get out of my life and he was very disrespectful and insensitive, especially after what I'd shared with him. I was not disrespectful, didn't call him an 'idiot' (which I should have, but he'd told me how much this had damaged him in his childhood and he can't let people call him that.......but what an ignorant idiot he truly was).
After 3 weeks I felt bad for my anger and felt sorry for possibly hurting him. I called him and apologized for the fury of my response............I should never have done this. My response was appropriate. Now I regret apologizing. He never even apologized to me!!!!!
Anyway, anyone who attends these meetings.......watch out.
Hollyberry........I'm so sorry you got abused by these people. They were full of sh*t.
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