Publicly confronted about service dog. a disability isn't fake just because it's invisible. (vent)

[Justmehere]

I have a dumb question, is it possible to put letters on the coat that tell others to leave you guys alone as the dog is working?

Yep. There are patches that are made and most SD teams these days have them on the best. Most people leave the dog alone, but too many don't.

@Justmehere - that nurse! - but what I wanted to mention is that you still always get to change your mind. So if the first instinct is to just get along in the moment, and say 'yeah, sure, OK' to the picture - if your gut tells youright after, that you didn't like thatchoice? it's OK to make a new choice.

That's a great reminder! I initially didn't say a thing, yes or no, and wish the nurse had even asked. She just held up her phone and started snapping away... but I had it within me to say no after doing nothing at first... I can always change my mind. It's easy to forget that. When she pulled back the curtain for the patient, I verbally said "no, my dog can't do this" instantly, as she told my dog the commands to engage the other person...

Sometimes it all makes me just want to go live with dogs.

That's rather rude to say to someone, in my opinion.

I think every service dog team has to figure out what is right for them and the culture they are in, and will get a lot of practice saying something... I'd agree that directness can help but being polite (at first) makes sense too.

"Leave us alone, thank you" - doesn't have to have an angry tone about it, but it's going to end the interaction.

I have found that "stop petting my dog now thanks" or telling someone just plain "no" to requests to pet the dog actually tend to lead to a longer unwanted interaction, not a quick end to interaction. It's annoying. People want to discuss it more, and usually in a defensive and escalated way. For me, "now is not a good time to pet the dog" and occasionally adding "please stop petting the dog now" works the best to get someone to stop petting without much fuss and engagement.

If someone is touching my arm in an unwanted way, I easily can say "leave me alone" with greater success... but if it's the dog they are touching, people get weirdly entitled about it. People tend to tell me. "But I love dogs..." and "but you dog loves me" other objections... then it becomes an even longer engagement to tell them no once again very directly and enforce the boundary.

Oddly, "now is not a good time" seems to work best in my area. It's not the most direct, but people usually apologize and just stop and walk away. Go figure.

When I was in another state, I found that "stop petting the dog now please" went over just fine. It was a different and more direct culture as a whole though. When I was in the south, I found that I had to dress up my boundary even more to be heard and I'd start off with "sir" or something and folks would stop more quickly.

Any version of "no" should be more than enough, and I agree service dog owners shouldn't shy away from directness for fear of being rude - but as to a "no" that actually works the most effectively with the most people quickly - it really does vary and in some areas extra politeness goes a long way.

Sometimes it doesn't.

Like when people who walk their dog down the sidewalk who let it run up and engage mine. I always tell them to pull the dog away, but rarely is their first response to pull the dog away. 99 percent of the time they want to discuss the friendliness of their dog. In that setting I have to tell them my dog might attack (unlikely but a possibility with any dog, even an SD) in order to get people to stop quickly without a lot of fuss.

People get passionate and vocal about dogs with complete strangers in a way I never expected before training/using SDs. It's why dogs are great as therapy tools - people talk more easily, but it's got a big drawback when the dog isn't everyone else's therapy dog, but an SD for the handler.

 

[JustBe]

I understand.

Sometimes (many times)I just stay home rather than run the gauntlet of life in public with a Service dog.
Just remember, Life for us is hard enough just to get through the day, just to get out of the house.

You owe No explanation to anyone. There are assholes out there and it's not your job to educate them or explain yourself.

I never ever disclose my disability because I feel exposed and vulnerable as it is and never want to give somebody the power of knowing my weaknesses.

Take good care of you and your sweet dog and ignore the assholes. I made up SD cards and when I am cornered, I hand them a card and walk away.

ETA:

I use Mushers Secret on my dog's paws and those little Pawz rubber slip-on booties and her feet are well protected from the salt. Just remember to take the booties off every now and then because they have to be snug and after a while they can get a little uncomfortable.

 

[Kefira]

A bit ranty and not directed at anyone here, just general issues, but I've been working on several articles this week so I'm all sorts of focused on this.

I have a dumb question, is it possible to put letters on the coat that tell others to leave you guys alone as the dog is working?

For owner trainers and some organizations yes. A huge number of organizations including ours have gear policies though that prevent any alterations from their standard. AND this places the responsibility in the wrong place. It is not my responsibility as a handler to plaster warning signs all over my dog like a walking billboard, particularly since from the SD forums I'm on we can't identify a noticeable difference- people just ignore the patches. But the first question if you have someone interfering with your medical equipment is "Well do you have a patch or something that says not to?" We as a society are all together too forgiving toward people who are ignorant about service dogs. My friends in wheelchairs don't need a "please don't tip over my wheelchair" sign. It's the same sort of impact- it's an invasion of space, and I have to spend part of my day now calming down from what I can only register as a violation on my person because he's an extension of me, and on top of it I have to refocus him so that he can do his job again. SDs are not pets, and they need to be ignored. And I can tell you most handlers are really tired of all of the apologetic nonsense toward people who are making it harder to access public spaces (all because of the one thing we have to help us access those spaces at all) and depending on the exact exchange and how far it escalates after setting a boundary may also be breaking the law (interfering with a team). Mistake of law isn't actually a defense legally, and it typically isn't socially with matters of discrimination or rudeness based in being different, but with service dogs in particular it's so common it makes me want to throw up.

What's worse is people seem to listen less to handlers' experiences, because people don't relate to us as well. We filter stories through our own experience and set of circumstances. When we talk about other kinds of micro aggression, we're talking about the focus on us as an individual. People (even people without that particular characteristic, but who have empathy) say wow, I would really hate it if someone said/did that to me, that would feel really bad. If you try to explain etiquette and boundary breaches people are sitting there saying well, I wouldn't mind if someone petted my dog. If you try to explain being kicked out of an establishment because of your medical equipment unfortunately a lot of people start out not understanding the protections for service dogs and want to identify with the person who might be allergic or afraid of dogs or the manager who had a fake team* last week and doesn't want that trouble again. And barring all of that, well, they just don't know any better and you shouldn't be so angry all the time.

It does a little though, doesn't it? You are already in a heightened awareness state because he's experiencing a lot of new stuff. I truly don't mean this as criticism - I think it's OK to allow just navigating with him to be the single reason for why you are there, and not try and add in the shopping until he's done the store at least a few times.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me I've noticed most of this doesn't actually get better. We've been a team for 2 years now. I'm a bit more able to deal when things go wrong because I've had some weird experiences by now. But the beauty of dogs in general is that everything is always new. Part of the reason they work so well is they're in the moment all the time. So you can go to the same store every week, but today for whatever reason it's totally new and different, maybe because like this morning it snowed so everything smells weird and we have to break up our routine to deal with road salt coming inside. We started training when he was a puppy, and I can definitely see the progress, but as a handler there's also this drive to protect the dog, who will be blamed for any tiny thing that goes wrong, which means the bar is always edging up and we never catch it. You will always have people trying to distract the dog, people stepping on the dog, people invading your space. Dogs don't understand human concepts of space and things like lines at all, so to get a dog who flawlessly finds the most out of the way spot to tuck into in any situation and who always has perfect spacing and attention in a line could take the entire life of the dog.

And I don't care if you've been doing it 2 months or 20 years there's no good way to handle a situation where say you have an access issue that's elevating and you're being yelled at by a manager and everyone the store is staring and talking about you and now you have an SD who's trying to alert you (so they look like they're not on point). You have to choose whether to try to muddle through that and defend your civil rights and deal with police who may not know the laws (who you'll have to educate and hope it goes well) or to accept that you don't have civil rights today. Then if you're lucky maybe one person in your support network gets it and is unequivocally on your side, but most people say how you should understand that that person just doesn't know better (even though the last update to the business brief was 2002) and ask why you're so uptight.

*Seriously this is the boogeyman of the SD world. Yeah, fake teams exist. But I hear 10 times more about fake teams than I hear about teams with invisible disabilities being discriminated against, often because it's assumed they're a fake team. It's fear mongering, stores in 100% of the over-blown horror story cases have the legal protection to remove the team and they don't take it. It's so over-discussed that all of my non-handler friends want to talk about this like it's the main problem around SDs because "look at all these awful people taking advantage of protections for disabled people" makes a way more palatable message than "look at how much we as a society suck at protecting disabled people".

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Like when people who walk their dog down the sidewalk who let it run up and engage mine. I always tell them to pull the dog away

Half of the dogs in this apartment complex are running off leash without an owner to yell at or when there is an owner and I have yelled (as they are almost always far away) "please and come get your dog" or any thing up that alley, they laugh. They think it's funny. Even when he has his vest on and they can plainly see that he is a SD in training. That's the main reason I have issues with walks here as these dogs run up and either are all over Chopper being agressive or want to play and it's impossible for me to stop it even if I go the other way, the dogs follow.

Having a dog off leash is against the apartment complex's rules and the lease but no one gives a rat's ass and if I tell the office they can't go off of what the dog looked like or even what the owner looked like, they want the apartment building & number and 99% of the time I haven't a clue what apartment they are in. So then nothing gets done. And I have been more then very direct about it. Direct does nothing. I have even had my cane out there trying to keep the dog(s) from Chopper and threatened (I would never do this, it was said to the owner as I was frustrated) get your dogs or I will hit them with my cane. I was trying to say anything to get them to get their dogs and still nothing.

Though directness in Orlando area, most especially in this little part of the area, being too direct can get you shot. There was a 2 shootings here already and 3 others threatened with a gun, and another shot off a gun for fun.

People get passionate and vocal about dogs with complete strangers in a way I never expected before training/using SDs.

Yep. And me personally, I have a HUGE fear of people so all of this attention all at once spikes my anxiety to super high levels and Chopper is still in training so I have to try to focus on him and not the person. Focusing on him helps the anxiety a bit but I really wish people would just see a SD and ignore it as it makes training like a thousand times harder. Especially with a reactive dog as not only do I want people to not pet him, I can't allow it if he is reactive anyway as it inforces reactiveness.

Many times I ignore the person and walk the other way and eventually that person "gets it" when all of their words are ignored, but many times they don't.

Take the woman that stopped me when I was training heel in the parking lot of the apartment complex early in. She stopped me to ask if I was training and then to ask if he was a pitbull (likely to advise the office as their is a breed restricrion here. Which is why I gave them my Dr's letter yesterday). After I said yes to both she walked away. What sense does that make?

"No" never works here. Ever. I have said things in many different ways. So far, I have not found an effective way. I have said "he is a SD in training, please ignore us" and "go away" and "leave us alone" and none work. The last 2 people take offense to and think you are blaming them for stalking you or harassing you and protest that they aren't which makes them stay there, yelling at you now, for way longer.

It frustrares me to no end that people are that uneducated and refuse to be educated. I have tried to quickly, 1 or 2 liner education and still, many don't "get it". I don't get why people can't just ignore SDs in general. Why the entire issue is even happening is something I will never understand as if I am told "please don't come near my dog" (without even saying service dog), I would not go near the dog. But no one else seems to.

but if it's the dog they are touching, people get weirdly entitled about it.

Yes they do!

but as a handler there's also this drive to protect the dog, who will be blamed for any tiny thing that goes wrong, which means the bar is always edging up and we never catch it.

YES!!!!

Seriously this is the boogeyman of the SD world. Yeah, fake teams exist. But I hear 10 times more about fake teams than I hear about teams with invisible disabilities being discriminated against, often because it's assumed they're a fake team.

Yep! Which is why I get asked first of I am a service dog trainer as Chopper has "in training" on his vest and I have an e collar remote around my neck and a treat bag aross me and a clicker in my hand. I get that. I answer that I am owner training him and here comes that weird look and the question of "what wrong with you?" In a tone if like nothing is wrong with me as I have no visiable disabilty. Trying to say not all disabilties are visiable opens an entire new conversation that takes WAY longer which is why I just answer with PTSD but I will be saying I have a nerological disorder or impairment or some things advised here earlier as they are way better.

There is no direct way to just say "leave us alone" and that actually happening. Plus being that rude wards off people from me which isn't what I want. I want to learn to make friends and that isn't the way to do that and when I say to leave my SD in training alone, that isn't heard nor is it ever followed.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

is it possible to put letters on the coat that tell others to leave you guys alone as the dog is working?

I have one, it is ignored. Refer to this post for a picture of it: Publicly Confronted About Service Dog. A Disability Isn't Fake Just Because It's Invisible. (vent)

I am getting a leash wrap patch later which is a patch on each side saying the same thing but I don't get why I have to. There is no room on that vest for any other patches. It came with the side velco of "Service Dog", I bought the side ones seperatley so we will be using this when he is trained enough to not have "in training" on him. A bigger vest interfers with his abilty to do his job. But why do we have to have 20 signs saying, basically, "stay away" anyway? Even if I didn't have that top white patch, why can't people just ignore unless there is a specific patch that says "I'm nice, pet me". They sell them and they are out there. I have seen them. Why do we have to sign our SDs all up with these "caution flags"? I just don't get it. Before I was training Chopper, I fully ignored SDs and it just astounds me how many don't and ignore any patch you can buy.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

@lostforgottensoul thank you for putting up the picture of the vest. I do not understand why certain people ignore this it seems pretty clear to me. I fear we are living in a boundaryless society nowadays.

 

[JustBe]

By the way....

I am really curious as to why some people don't want their service animals pette...

Several times when my SD was distracted by someone making kissy noises to get her attention or patting her I have either stumbled badly and injured myself or been triggered so badly that I had to go home without completing my errands. All because she was not able to do her job while distracted by interacting with strangers who thought it was their right to visit with the pretty doggie.

Also, it triggers my PTSD to be accosted by strangers even if they're being friendly and I need my SD to keep me grounded, not be interacting with my trigger.

NEVER distract a Service Dog. They are working and must pay 100% attention to their Disabled handler. It's their job.

 

[JustBe]

I'd add, it spikes my anxiety BADLY when I am faced with confrontation. BADLY! So now i hav...

Love, Love, LOVE this post.

I agree 100%

 

[JustBe]

I made my own. One side has all the typical questions I get which explains what KIND of dog he is...

Also, the cards I made have my SD's photo on them. I give them to kids who behave nicely around us. Sometimes I release her for a moment to say hello if I'm OK, other times I explain that she's working but they can have her 'business card'. The kids get so excited to have her card and I'm able to continue on my way. It's well worth the $10 on vistaprint for the box!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Also, the cards I made have my SD's photo on them.

That's cute! I love that!

What I dislike is this: Link Removed as businesses then think all SDs are supposed to have them (there isn't a registry for service dogs).

But a personalized business card is a very amazing idea!!!

I need to take some pictures of Chopper in his vest and would be happy to pay for his own business card! Love it!

 

[JustBe]

Re: post: 1137492

@Justmehere,

I am so very sorry this happened to you. It speaks to the heart of my Trauma, being vulnerable in a medical setting with no control. You handled it much better than I would have.
Just hearing the paper on the exam tables crinkle causes me to dissociate. I can't begin to count the number of times I haven't even made it down the hall to my Therapist because of having to run the gauntlet of kissy noises and questions about my SD who is trying to keep me safe and grounded as I pass empty exam rooms.

Just reading your post sent me into escape mode and she alerted and distracted me.

People just don't get the harm their curiosity and interference can do.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Re: post: 1137492

Just FYI: You can click on the post number and up will pop the link to that post so you can link a post of you want to.

Sorry for off topic. Just wanted to advise.

kissy noises

That's a HUGE issue with me. Specifically because it was a common sound in my trauma. Many sounds made to dogs including "baby talk" was as well. Don't want to take the thread off topic advising of when it was done in my trauma but I struggle with it, a lot.

So you have that and then Chopper also has issues with it. We are training past reactiveness (being excitable) and those noises are VERY hard for him to resist, though his training says not to react, he has big issues with it. Today he will look at me first, mostly, but not always. And when he becomes unfocused off of me and onto the person, it's a job to get him back focused and back into position, especially if they don't go away.

I have screamed at someone and said "you see me struggling with a service dog in training here, can you f*cking stop making noises to him?" Never mind my own internal freak out! Sometimes I have to walk him away as if he were a pet, just to get out of the situation and then correct him. I'd never be able to be at a Dr's office and be any sort of composed nor have Chopper composed if that were happening.