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Question - PTSD Debate?
- Post starter smasot
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- #2
anthony
Founder
Could you please explain yourself further than the simple couple of words? What debate?
YoungAndAngry
Platinum Member
Yeah, I'm a little confused here too...
reallydown
Diamond Member
my interpretation of the question
I could be wrong but I think Smasot is asking about the nature and "curability" of PTSD...I've heard something about this too...that there is a debate--on one side people are saying that it's curable and doesn't have to last for a long time...while the other side maintains that it's lifelong...and not really curable. Anyway, that's just my take on what's being asked.
I could be wrong but I think Smasot is asking about the nature and "curability" of PTSD...I've heard something about this too...that there is a debate--on one side people are saying that it's curable and doesn't have to last for a long time...while the other side maintains that it's lifelong...and not really curable. Anyway, that's just my take on what's being asked.
- Admin
- #5
anthony
Founder
If that is the case, then there isn't much debate on it really. PTSD is not currently medically curable. That is fact, not fiction.
What is up for debate would be IMHO, the actual diagnosis in relation to how serious the PTSD is. For example, because a person can be diagnosed with PTSD with only having the symptoms for 1 month after a traumatic event, then a physician who knows no better, could make a diagnosis of PTSD, because it does fit the pre-requisites by the DSM, therefor, the person may in fact of been diagnosed with PTSD, undergone some counselling, exposure therapy or a quick course of CBT, and never again have the symptoms of PTSD within their life.
The debate would therefor really be IMHO, are physicians diagnosing PTSD correctly or are they utilising the disorder for cases that should be diagnosed elsewhere?
As the DSM even clarifies upon the top note of the symptomatic scale; When an individual who has been exposed to a traumatic event develops anxiety symptoms, reexperiencing of the event, and avoidance of stimuli related to the event lasting more than four weeks, they may be suffering from Anxiety Disorder. (Anxiety disorder opposed to PTSD)
You can get an idea of which fits what at [DLMURL]http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/dsm4TRclassification.htm[/DLMURL], and if you actually read through many of the different disorders, you will find that many of the same questions are used, or simply expressed a different way, but you may also note, that the intensity scales for diagnosis are often less than for PTSD, because if the intensity is at a medium to low level, then in most cases, the person is quite curable.
Basically, IMHO where the confusion stems from the diagnosis of PTSD, is that basic physicians who have no true understanding about the diagnosis of this disorder, do not comprehend that a diagnosis is not based upon meeting the actual criteria of the disorder, instead they are based on meeting a certain quantity of the disorder, the intensity of the symptom is a key factor, not the symptom itself, and then the physician must also be skilled in questioning and recognition of certain behavioural patterns within a patient who has PTSD.
A patient with PTSD will more often than not, understate their symptom severity, they will deny that anything is wrong, they will be hesitant and more often than not, they will be very nervous when with the physician, ie. jumping of leg or foot, tapping of fingers, etc etc, all signs pointing to the fact the person needs to escape to safety.
Lets face facts here. We see misdiagnosis just about every day here, with people who have been diagnosed with everything else before getting to PTSD itself. Some of this is misdiagnosis, some is actual correct diagnosis, generally because physicians play a large gambling game with diagnosis, in that trial and error is required to some extent, in that they will diagnose with a lesser disorder first, treat you for it, if no improvement is made, they will generally then look upward to a more serious diagnosis, generally one or two before getting to PTSD itself. Why? Because PTSD with its criteria is actually supposed to be diagnosed to those who are literally that bad, and cannot be cured, hence why when you reach PTSD diagnosis, there is no cure.
There really is no debate as such, more just indifference between how physicians are using the diagnosis of PTSD itself, and not using it for what it is meant to be, being the most serious and last point of call. Some physicians are trying very very hard to get PTSD lowered to a level where they can comfortably use it to label, then treat it to cure, so they can have statisics, their names highlighted for some recognition, etc etc... trust me, the true gods of psychiatry are working on the matter, and they are not working on basic crap like the diagnosis, CBT and exposure therapy, instead they are going to the core root of the issue, the brain components associated to memories and trauma. This is where the secrets lie on how to unlock the issue's. EMDR, TLI and other treatments hit the mental imagery of our brains smack bang on, and these are getting very good results, so if they can go a little more beyond these forms of treatments, then a cure may just be around the corner.
It goes past just the memories, and into our own perceptions, concoctions of imageries we have made up and developed, the effect of some symptoms such as the social withdrawal, anger and others. When PTSD is developed, a person has gone far beyond just anxiety, depression and basic associated symptoms, where they have instead moved into a realm of hell, to put it simply. Getting past much of this is one feat by itself, but the problem is with PTSD, is that even once past the worst, simply watching something on TV, or listening to the radio, a comment, can send you backwards again, trigger a symptom, and so forth. With other disorders, once you are past your anxiety, trauma and depression, these factors do not raise an immediate reaction and symptom outbreak again, as you have been cured.
These new facets about ambidexterity and other treatments could just be the gift to the future of a cure, as these hit the cortex of our brains, which is where a CT scan shows a clear imbalance within our brains, and these possible techniques are known to cause their own imbalance within the brain, thus could be the simple fact to rebalance an already unbalanced brain in the wrong facet, such as PTSD.
My two cents on it anyway... and only my opinion on the matter.
What is up for debate would be IMHO, the actual diagnosis in relation to how serious the PTSD is. For example, because a person can be diagnosed with PTSD with only having the symptoms for 1 month after a traumatic event, then a physician who knows no better, could make a diagnosis of PTSD, because it does fit the pre-requisites by the DSM, therefor, the person may in fact of been diagnosed with PTSD, undergone some counselling, exposure therapy or a quick course of CBT, and never again have the symptoms of PTSD within their life.
The debate would therefor really be IMHO, are physicians diagnosing PTSD correctly or are they utilising the disorder for cases that should be diagnosed elsewhere?
As the DSM even clarifies upon the top note of the symptomatic scale; When an individual who has been exposed to a traumatic event develops anxiety symptoms, reexperiencing of the event, and avoidance of stimuli related to the event lasting more than four weeks, they may be suffering from Anxiety Disorder. (Anxiety disorder opposed to PTSD)
You can get an idea of which fits what at [DLMURL]http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/dsm4TRclassification.htm[/DLMURL], and if you actually read through many of the different disorders, you will find that many of the same questions are used, or simply expressed a different way, but you may also note, that the intensity scales for diagnosis are often less than for PTSD, because if the intensity is at a medium to low level, then in most cases, the person is quite curable.
Basically, IMHO where the confusion stems from the diagnosis of PTSD, is that basic physicians who have no true understanding about the diagnosis of this disorder, do not comprehend that a diagnosis is not based upon meeting the actual criteria of the disorder, instead they are based on meeting a certain quantity of the disorder, the intensity of the symptom is a key factor, not the symptom itself, and then the physician must also be skilled in questioning and recognition of certain behavioural patterns within a patient who has PTSD.
A patient with PTSD will more often than not, understate their symptom severity, they will deny that anything is wrong, they will be hesitant and more often than not, they will be very nervous when with the physician, ie. jumping of leg or foot, tapping of fingers, etc etc, all signs pointing to the fact the person needs to escape to safety.
Lets face facts here. We see misdiagnosis just about every day here, with people who have been diagnosed with everything else before getting to PTSD itself. Some of this is misdiagnosis, some is actual correct diagnosis, generally because physicians play a large gambling game with diagnosis, in that trial and error is required to some extent, in that they will diagnose with a lesser disorder first, treat you for it, if no improvement is made, they will generally then look upward to a more serious diagnosis, generally one or two before getting to PTSD itself. Why? Because PTSD with its criteria is actually supposed to be diagnosed to those who are literally that bad, and cannot be cured, hence why when you reach PTSD diagnosis, there is no cure.
There really is no debate as such, more just indifference between how physicians are using the diagnosis of PTSD itself, and not using it for what it is meant to be, being the most serious and last point of call. Some physicians are trying very very hard to get PTSD lowered to a level where they can comfortably use it to label, then treat it to cure, so they can have statisics, their names highlighted for some recognition, etc etc... trust me, the true gods of psychiatry are working on the matter, and they are not working on basic crap like the diagnosis, CBT and exposure therapy, instead they are going to the core root of the issue, the brain components associated to memories and trauma. This is where the secrets lie on how to unlock the issue's. EMDR, TLI and other treatments hit the mental imagery of our brains smack bang on, and these are getting very good results, so if they can go a little more beyond these forms of treatments, then a cure may just be around the corner.
It goes past just the memories, and into our own perceptions, concoctions of imageries we have made up and developed, the effect of some symptoms such as the social withdrawal, anger and others. When PTSD is developed, a person has gone far beyond just anxiety, depression and basic associated symptoms, where they have instead moved into a realm of hell, to put it simply. Getting past much of this is one feat by itself, but the problem is with PTSD, is that even once past the worst, simply watching something on TV, or listening to the radio, a comment, can send you backwards again, trigger a symptom, and so forth. With other disorders, once you are past your anxiety, trauma and depression, these factors do not raise an immediate reaction and symptom outbreak again, as you have been cured.
These new facets about ambidexterity and other treatments could just be the gift to the future of a cure, as these hit the cortex of our brains, which is where a CT scan shows a clear imbalance within our brains, and these possible techniques are known to cause their own imbalance within the brain, thus could be the simple fact to rebalance an already unbalanced brain in the wrong facet, such as PTSD.
My two cents on it anyway... and only my opinion on the matter.
Last edited:
- Admin
- #6
anthony
Founder
Oh, I will add, I know of one person only, who had severe PTSD and states they are now cured, and have had not one symptom of PTSD in the last two years. This is very positive for finding a cure, but if it doesn't work for everyone, then would it make it a cure? You could relate this to cancer. Using kemo kills the cancer in some, but not others, as each person is uniquely different, thus they do not label kemo as a cure for cancer, because it doesn't cure, it fixes some, not others.
At present, some concepts are being thrown around within the PTSD realm as a cure, but again, if they don't work for everyone, then they cannot be labelled a cure, only a possible remedy, the same as kemo, or treatment for a better term.
If this one person I know still has no symptoms in ten or twenty years time, ie. something in their life happens that cause a severe symptom outbreak, then you could look at a treatment as a possible cure, or if you had the numbers and played the numbers game, where you treat 100 people with the same remedy, and all 100 come out the same at the end, no indifference to symptoms, all 100 lose all symptoms when exposed to common triggers, which is how they basically label a cure now anyway... the numbers game. If they have significantly more positives than negatives, then they can call it a cure.
Just added that extra cent to make three... LOL
At present, some concepts are being thrown around within the PTSD realm as a cure, but again, if they don't work for everyone, then they cannot be labelled a cure, only a possible remedy, the same as kemo, or treatment for a better term.
If this one person I know still has no symptoms in ten or twenty years time, ie. something in their life happens that cause a severe symptom outbreak, then you could look at a treatment as a possible cure, or if you had the numbers and played the numbers game, where you treat 100 people with the same remedy, and all 100 come out the same at the end, no indifference to symptoms, all 100 lose all symptoms when exposed to common triggers, which is how they basically label a cure now anyway... the numbers game. If they have significantly more positives than negatives, then they can call it a cure.
Just added that extra cent to make three... LOL
i was interested in the cure or not question, and now after reading it wish i hadn't! i don't want to hear that there is no cure, that things won't improve completely. if that is true where does that leave us all who have ptsd - up the river without a paddle permently. yes symptoms can be treated or lessen with therapy/drugs. That is not enough or acceptable. maybe it's just the stage i am at right now - i need there to be an end to all of this and the thought of to regain some sort of normality, at least the slightest glimmer of hope that i could possibility to hold onto, to feel that these symptoms or condition is transient and not forever tainted.
Boo-Damphir
Silver Member
That was a huge debate among nursing friends of mine. Their logic was "just get over it, get counseling do something, but get over it." I never knew where I stood, so when I got it I asked my psychiatrist if it is curable. He told me no, that the trauma brings on a new reference base of emotions and reactions. That is your new "normal" personality. However, there are tools you can learn to keep PTSD from staying in the acute phase and move towards the more chronic phase. I can learn to live with it, without PTSD ruling my every waking thought and action. (someday....)
~Boo-Damphir
~Boo-Damphir
- Admin
- #9
anthony
Founder
Kevin, I actually just spoke about this within a private trauma diary, and exactly as Boo outlined, whilst there is no cure, it doesn't mean you can't learn to control PTSD itself. You can control PTSD, but your life will become a new "normal" as boo stated, in that you will never be able to fully function nor achieve what you used to by the medical standing of not curable, however; plenty of people have PTSD today, do some sort of work, have social lives, have stable open relationships and families. I am one of those. A lot of my time is now dedicated to non-profit work, being this PTSD forum and I also have other work interests that I perform. I manage a family, raise and look after my children, run my teenager around to all his social calender events, cook, clean, get out and about, etc etc. I can do all this generally with no symptoms shown.
I have known aspects that will trigger me, regardless what I do, for example, military helicopters flying around me is one. That does raise my anxiety and I will get ill for a day or so, but because I know what techniques work for myself now, and I no longer fear my trauma, instead of a trigger reacting my trauma in a fearful manner, it just reacts my emotions instead. I get a bit edgy, a bit moody for a day or so, then I progressively calm myself down again back to my new "normal" and continue on.
I can go to a concert and have no side effects now, because I can mentally prepare myself that being in the crowd at the concert is not bad, its annoying, but the crowd don't come bearing arms, weapons and are out to kill me. I know this, I acknowledge it before doing it, and I thus do not suffer anxiety, nightmares or flashbacks because of it.
Deal with the trauma, and then everything else falls into place. It is just about some minor self management and constant learning from then on.
I have known aspects that will trigger me, regardless what I do, for example, military helicopters flying around me is one. That does raise my anxiety and I will get ill for a day or so, but because I know what techniques work for myself now, and I no longer fear my trauma, instead of a trigger reacting my trauma in a fearful manner, it just reacts my emotions instead. I get a bit edgy, a bit moody for a day or so, then I progressively calm myself down again back to my new "normal" and continue on.
I can go to a concert and have no side effects now, because I can mentally prepare myself that being in the crowd at the concert is not bad, its annoying, but the crowd don't come bearing arms, weapons and are out to kill me. I know this, I acknowledge it before doing it, and I thus do not suffer anxiety, nightmares or flashbacks because of it.
Deal with the trauma, and then everything else falls into place. It is just about some minor self management and constant learning from then on.
- Admin
- #11
anthony
Founder
Here is a quote of hope for you Kevin, in what I was just discussing within a private trauma diary.
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