Racism In The Military And Society

[Jimmy1]

Well this is a current topic in another thread but it's something I feel very strongly about.

I grew up in a country town where my father was the only policeman. I copped stirring for that, but once my father was given the ok, by the townsfolk, things were fine. The only stirring that happened at school was the standard schoolyard crap.

Fist fights used to be allowed at school (sort of) and everyone made sure it did not get out of hand. It was during a break and everyone formed a circle.
If a kid got too mouthy to a senior they got sorted out or humiliated and then they did not do it again.

Now when kids go to school they sit in gangs according to their culture, well a lot of them do. You have aboriginals, islanders, African, and Muslim. There is no small punch up anymore, knives are around and there is a school policeman.

Kids have to fit in or they are ridiculed and bullied.

Society is all f*cked up now, kids don't respect anyone anymore and I believe a lot of it is because of social media and their parents, kids don't respect teachers, the police, and it's the parents that show racial hatred and the kids learn from that. When they get older they succumb to peer pressure.

Here is an example, we have a local footballer, he has won a national medal in his football code twice. My step-daughter who is 20 now commented one night that he was a 'f*cking Idiot', and she hated him. When I asked if she had met him, she said 'No', friends of mine have.

The one place I have never seen racism is in our military, well not when I was in. Everyone proved themselves whether you were white, black, yellow, it did not matter.

 

[Zipperhead]

It's hard to be racist against the guy that's watching your back Jimmy. That doesn't mean that you trust the civilian minorities though. And in the end, that makes you racist. I can excuse the trait by pointing to all the world events justifying my views all I want, in the end it's my prejudice that's displayed. Racism is not a choice Jimmy. Our own experiences teach us well. I do my best to hide my fears. Very few people have seen me react to my triggers. One can not fault me for an evil stare as long as I don't act on the hate. I have seen the worst in that society, and I have the scars to prove it. So I guess what I'm saying is that we need a bit of understanding here. As long as you self identify as a member of a religion that has declared war on the rest of the world, you have to expect that people are going to be a bit hesitant to hug you. They need to recognise where the hate was borne, and work toward a resolution. Simply pulling the race card is not enough.

 

[Jimmy1]

Thanks Zip, never thought about it like that.

 

[Anglesachse]

Zip spot on cocker.

I think any of us that have served in Theatre and looked down the wrong end of a rifle has a certain right to not like a give "Race" "Kreed" or "Religion" depending on what they went through.

I for my part, as most here will know have a major issue with Taigs and Fenians. which also causes a problem with "Radical" Catholics and Anybody with an Irish Accent, till such point that I know your an Orange Ulsterman, (I wish it was that simple)

Or in the case of the forum here, as there are many members of Irish descent, that you are simply not an IRA activist or sympathiser.

 

[Anglesachse]

But again, like I said on the other thread, it is a very fine line.

 

[JarHed]

Everyone is racist and prejudiced, no exceptions. It's what we do about it that defines us a humans.

My mailman is a young guy, a vietnamese guy. Nice kid. I talked with him once and he told me his parents came here after the war and how glad they were to be here. In another conversation he told me he talked about me to them and they said to thank me for my service and what we did for them. I was a bit shocked and surprised at that but glad to here it though. There was a time I wouldn't even have talked to him or someone that was vietnamese. Time can change a lot of things, if you let it.

Religion has been the cause for more wars in the history of mankind than any other thing. Why or how could one be better than another? I think Zip said it, it's about fear. Fear of the unknown and misunderstood.

I've experienced a lot of prejudice toward me for a bunch of things, and yet I'm still prejudiced myself.

 

[Barberian]

I couldn't write in this thread since it came up because of all the shit I went through in my career. I had to approach this topic in a hazmat suit it's so toxic to me. The U.S. Navy is full of racism. Usually it's subtle, sometimes it smacks you in the face hard. I could fill up the internet with examples I saw and had to live through, but I'll keep as short as I can.

All my life I've tried my best not to be racist, even to the people who are racist against me. How can I be an example to help break their racist attitude if I just reinforce their beliefs that my race is inferior to theirs if I live up to their expectations of me. I've done a pretty good job I think. I don't form an opinion about someone until they show their personality and belief system. I saw a lot of racism in the navy.

I had written several long paragraphs about my experiences in the navy, but deleted them because I don't want to feed the beast. The beast of PTSD and racism in general. Part of the reason I have PTSD is rooted in being in Gulf 1, and racist chain of command would not back me up when one of my junior personnel very directly, and believably threatened to kill me, indirectly and through insinuation continued the threat throughout the cruise to kill me, and harassed me throughout the cruise. There are a lot more contributing factors to my PTSD, but I don't want to get into it now, besides it's too off topic.

The color of a man is not the same as the measure of a man. Treat each as an equal, and don't be ashamed when you discover they are better than you.

 

[Spock]

I prefer like the idea of fear of the unknown. Some of us are raised to be prejudice in some ways more than another but, in general, I think when we travel to a new location we naturally give people of different cultures the benefit of our doubt, maybe tainted a bit at times. The topic is valid for all of us but is it correct?

I like how this article provides another look to what we may have been programmed to believe. It doesn't change our experiences or feelings on the topic but maybe the lens in which we view it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/does-race-exist.html

 

[JarHed]

I think our ideas about others are partly promoted by an ancient part of our brain. The need to know if someone or something is friend or foe. I believe that's still with us today. Today it comes as being prejudiced or racist is you will. We tend to fear what we don't understand, which comes back to that earlier part of us that needs to know if someone is friend or foe.

As far as race goes, we're all the same race, human. Even though we come in many shapes, colors and cultures. At a biological level we're all the same. I know it's something that many will still debate. Then, I'll clarify, that that's my opinion based on my knowledge about it.

I know it's more complex than that. I try to look for a base reaction to things, a simple take. Maybe it's just the way my mind works. As has been said here, many of us have experience prejudices. Whether they seem fair to us or not they are decisions that are made by others towards us.

I think in another life I would have liked to have been a student or philosophy and psychology. Perhaps because at times I just don't understand what motivates people in the things that they do.

Good thread, very thought provoking.

 

[Spock]

I think our ideas about others are partly promoted by an ancient part of our brain. The need to know if someone or something is friend or foe. I believe that's still with us today...

well put Jar...modern version which gets caught up in current PC tribal lingo

...I think in another life I would have liked to have been a student or philosophy and psychology. Perhaps because at times I just don't understand what motivates people in the things that they do.

Good thread, very thought provoking.

Seems you already are Jar, maybe not at a traditional campus setting but still a student nonetheless

 

[vikingr12]

I lived with racism my whole life. From my father to his peers, all high ranking officers brought up enlisted, as if that made much of a difference. But I played baseball with so many other people from different cultures since I was a military brat. I got exposed at every opportunity to be away from my father who was rarely home anyway, flying a crew. But even he got better.

There was an incident when he was wing commander that got some publicity so I will say only so much. A young black kid was knifed, throat slashed, on his way home from the base theater. Man, what a hullaboo. The blacks from the Army post adjacent came out to the sports fields and were ready to rumble. There is a picture of my father right in the middle of these guys who towered over him. But there he was talking to them trying to settle them down, promising he would get the bastard that did it.

Meanwhile he had to walk around with 4 guard dogs and security police with rifles. They bombed his HQ, and sent threatening letters.

He got a medal for his actions in keeping some sense of peace on that base. They transferred him early to another base to keep him from getting killed. But he always regretted not being able to find the guy who did it. The incident changed him. One of his best friends when he retired was his adjutant, a black man who was one of the most honest and straight ahead guys I have met. He went to the academy.

I saw a lot of other violence while I was in Vietnam. Each of our teams that went on recon had a "10" a One Oh, or One Zero. He was the most experienced man on the team and directed every activity while the team traversed Indian country. One of them was a black man. It was an honor to be a One Oh. And man did I learn to respect him. All the Southern boys did too.

But there were some incidents I can't really talk about. Killings I know happened and some I actually witnessed. Because of racism. It's part of the beast.

We can only work at this problem one person at a time and hopefully their time will come soon.I don't think it has anything to do with fear. I feared things I knew and things I did not know. It's what you hear and are socialized to like or dislike. It's your friends, your mother or father, even the local priest.

 

[Zipperhead]

When your lessons are being taught by the society that claims victim of the prejudice, and you are watching as the politically correct idiots fawn, it's hard to not fear. You speak of hate borne of ignorance. And such hate does exist. But not all prejudice is unfounded. To insinuate that we must love those that would kill us is the philosophy of suckers.