Reaction to Abuse

[whiteraven]

So...I've already been told I'm overreacting. But how is it overreacting when you are forced to be in the same room with your bully or your abuser? How is it overreacting when no one listens or hears you?

 

[VioletButterfly]

No ma'am. You need to go to higher level in your organization if that is possible. Do you have an ombudsman? I did and wish I'd gone that route, but having been abused, I shutdown. I was told to go back into a private suite with the woman who raged and yelled at me across a ballroom at an event avert I'd told HR what happened.

If you have a higher authority, please document and go seek help. Praying for you sweetie. VB

 

[Friday]

the same room with your bully or your abuser?

IS this your abuser?

Or is this your asshole coworker that you’re mixing up past & present / morphing into your abuser?

 

[VioletButterfly]

Whiteraven - Just caught my typo - I didn't go to someone higher out of my local office and ended up reassigning my position because the abuse/gaslighting continued. Local HR was not helpful for me. The local HR Director tried to buy me off. Really?! Maybe try an ombudsman if you have that option. Take care sweetie! VB

 

[whiteraven]

IS this your abuser?

Or is this your asshole coworker that you’re mixing up past & present / morphing into your abuser?

Both.

Whiteraven - Just caught my typo - I didn't go to someone higher out of my local office and ended up reassigning my position because the abuse/gaslighting continued. Local HR was not helpful for me. The local HR Director tried to buy me off. Really?! Maybe try an ombudsman if you have that option. Take care sweetie! VB

Nobody else I can really go to.

 

[EveHarrington]

Well when I’m the same room as a (child) abuser, I personally think that anything less than homicide is an under-reaction.

But yeah, this is how I justify my verbal freak outs. LOL.

 

[Friday]

Both.

I may have phrased my question badly.

(See below, for a more detailed example of what I was getting at.)

She's a BULLY. Why would they make us be in the same room with her?????

So here’s the thing... bullies don’t generally have the kind of power over people that you’re describing. Being in the same room as one, especially in what seems to be a group disciplinary action against the bully, might be uncomfortable if you don’t like conflict, but it’s not at the same level as being in the same room with your rapist, or abuser, or someone who has assaulted you, or tried to kill you. Nor is any kind of retaliation either expected at all, or to even begin to rise to those levels. The person is likely to be mad, but that’s about it. And if their being mad goes past yelling and stomping and waving their hands around in the air, security escorts them from the building. Actual threats issued? Much less any kind of physical violence or property damage? Charges are filed with police, restraining orders issued with the courts, etc.. But often times, they’re not even really expected to be mad, much less respond with violence. Embarrassed is far more likely, at their faults in their behavior being on public display, mad very possibly, but not blind rage &/or malevolent action. But whether embarrassed (and willing to fix the problem to save their job), or mad (and now losing their job), no one is any expected/real danger from them.

That’s why I was attempting to ask if she had gone beyond being an asshole into serious trauma that gives you reason to fear for your life & safety, or if you’re mixing her up with someone (or people) who have seriously threatened your life & safety.

- If she’s committed a serious crime against you? &/or You’re in very real danger? You’re not overreacting.

- If she hasn’t committed a serious crime against you? She simply reminds you of people who have? That’s the definition of overreacting.

<<< And it gives you GREAT tools to deal with it, because you’re talking triggers & stressors, flashbacks & disassociation, anxiety & panic, plus the oh so fun dysregulation :wtf: that likes to thrash about once those things have kicked up. In a nutshell? You’re talking PTSD.

So ...is this pure PTSD, or are you in very real danger?

 

[blackemerald1]

How is it overreacting when no one listens or hears you?

What are you saying and why are they not listening to you?

 

[whiteraven]

Thank you for responding. I *did* understand what you said and part of the problem is that, at work, no one takes this seriously.

So here’s the thing... bullies don’t generally have the kind of power over people that you’re describing.

I'm don't know if you've been bullied or not, but a bully can destroy a person's life. And while I think some would say that is because the target is reacting badly, I know that it isn't.

Being in the same room as one, especially in what seems to be a group disciplinary action against the bully,

See, this is the thing. This is not a disciplinary action against this person. It never is in these situations at work. It is set up to demonstrate that the bully did nothing wrong and is just misunderstood. I've been here several times before at this place.

And if their being mad goes past yelling and stomping and waving their hands around in the air, security escorts them from the building.

No. This *doesn't* happen where I work. I am team lead in this department and someone actually stood up, approached me, and *screamed* in my face that she was not going to do what I asked. We had a meeting with HR, but I was the one who misunderstood her.

Actual threats issued? Much less any kind of physical violence or property damage?

Not directly. But she carries a gun. And yes, they know. Besides not being permitted even on the grounds, she is so unpredictable that everyone is afraid of her.

And I *could* go the the police. But I would lose this job in a second if I did that, and if I lose this job I have nothing. No money, no means. Takes 3-6 months around here to find a minimum wage job.

That’s why I was attempting to ask if she had gone beyond being an asshole into serious trauma that gives you reason to fear for your life & safety, or if you’re mixing her up with someone (or people) who have seriously threatened your life & safety.

Yes. I understood.

 

[blackemerald1]

We had a meeting with HR, but I was the one who misunderstood her.

^^This is a HR dept., being typically useless at one of their many roles.

This is incredibly destabilising and difficult to comprehend why 'they' are incapable of understanding and acting within their policies to stop the bad behaviour.

Rarely is a HR dept., pro-active with preventing bully behaviour. They run courses and pin up posters about the standards of behaviour expected, policies blah blah. But honestly most HR depts are useless at keeping employees to those standards.

, she is so unpredictable that everyone is afraid of her.

^^I've seen this before too. I have seen groups of people decide they do not want to be the focus of the bully's attention and behave badly with or on behalf of the bully or subvert any attempt to rein in the bully.

Is she allowed to carry a firearm whilst on company property?

And I *could* go the the police. But I would lose this job in a secon

But you cannot go to the Police because without an overt threat of harm what are you going to say or report?
This is the problem - a bully will trample all over HR policy in regards to behaviour and standards but fall just short of it being a police matter. Or has she made a clear an overt threat?

It is more likely a 'civilian' matter and you would probably be directed to a lawyer to find a civil remedy - which is beyond useless because it's a long term solution to a problem that ought to be fixed immediately.

Yes bullies can ruin lives by doing massive psychological damage. Not just to the victim but to other employees and the company as a whole.

I don't know the answer to this. I have seen bullying behaviour and it has wrecked entire workplaces. HR would rather call something a misunderstanding, personality clash or any number of other benign and unhelpful labels to avoid the terms bully and harassment. Meanwhile the victims of the behaviour suffer terribly.

You sound like you are appealing to HR to help sort it out. I don't know how that is going but it doesn't sound like it is working. Do you have any other plans?

Rather than wait for this to get so much wore ....and it can... have you considered looking for alternative employment whilst still employed where you are?

I know this sounds like you are running away from the bully and I agree you should not have to leave but the alternative is that the bully must leave and how likely is that? If you start looking for a better job of equal pay and conditions now... will that end the issue?

 

[Friday]

I'm don't know if you've been bullied or not, but a bully can destroy a person's life. And while I think some would say that is because the target is reacting badly, I know that it isn't.

Yep. For sure. I moved on average every 6-24 mo as a kid / was always the new kid, so I was in probably more than my fair share of playground fights & such as a kid. Never rose past typical childhood stuff.

Then I was a woman in a man’s job, which kicked things up to the level of hazing, no big deal reall, just as a normal course of business // and a few commands where it rose from that into a very big deal >>> IE >>> to daily/weekly rape, sexual assaults of various kinds, & well beyond normal hazing level of assaults & very often the risk of getting killed / what could probably be classified as attempted murder. And the type of job where there is no recourse / you can’t quit. Well. You can. But it’s called treason and is punishable by death, although they usually just send you to prison, instead.

Not directly. But she carries a gun. And yes, they know. Besides not being permitted even on the grounds, she is so unpredictable that everyone is afraid of her.

And I *could* go the the police. But I would lose this job in a second if I did that, and if I lose this job I have nothing. No money, no means. Takes 3-6 months around here to find a minimum wage job.

Sounds like you have a choice to make...

Go above HR’s heads if they’re preventing you from doing your job of protecting your subordinates, much less yourself, directly to management and make a big deal that you’ve got a violent, unstable, gun carrying employee under you that everyone is terrified of & HR is refusing to do anything about and insist that they step up and protect their employees from a gun wielding lunatic...

Or find a new job.

Or both. Although it would probably be better to find a new job first? The upside to laying down an ultimatum with management is that if you were fired, you’d have unemployment benefits to bridge the gap -plus probably wrongful termination & hostile work environment suits, but those would take time to see money and may well be added stress you don’t need- and wouldn’t have to be in the same building with someone who brings a gun to work to intimidate people with.

ETA - When going to management I would be very careful to avoid the term “bully”, unless you’re saying “This goes well beyond bullying, she brings a gun to work and threatens people, people fear for their lives, and rightly so”. Nearly everyone deals with bullies many times throughout the course of their life, is by and large considered no big deal once you’re out of gradeschool, and it completely misrepresents & downgrades the situation you’re describing. You will need to be very clear that this isn’t “just bullying”, goes well beyond a hostile workplace, and directly into the physical safety of their employees and themselves.

The kind of bullying that destroys people’s lives? Is both extremely rare, and quite frankly the term is mostly used to minimize what are serious crimes. Bullying? The kind everyone deals with? Aren’t the assault & battery, sexual assaults, abduction & illegal confinement, stalking, harassment, abuses, & systematic breaking of a person. That’s like calling rape a kiss on the cheek. It’s overreacting to be destroyed over a kiss on the cheek. It’s not overreacting to be destroyed by rape.

Part of why you probably aren’t being heard, and are being told you’re overreacting, is that you’re using a term you were seem to have been taught means something entirely different than the people you’re speaking with were taught it means.

 

[TTC18]

Go above HR’s heads if they’re preventing you from doing your job of protecting your subordinates, much less yourself, directly to management and make a big deal that you’ve got a violent, unstable, gun carrying employee under you that everyone is terrified of & HR is refusing to do anything about and insist that they step up and protect their employees from a gun wielding lunatic...

Or find a new job.

Or both. Although it would probably be better to find a new job first? The upside to laying down an ultimatum with management is that if you were fired, you’d have unemployment benefits to bridge the gap -plus probably wrongful termination & hostile work environment suits, but those would take time to see money and may well be added stress you don’t need- and wouldn’t have to be in the same building with someone who brings a gun to work to intimidate people with.

Agree with @Friday , but I'd just add - document everything. Get everything on paper that you can and make sure you have it outside of work in case you do get precipitously fired and need the papers for your eventual lawyer/etc.