Rules Warning System Discussion

[anthony]

As per [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/rules-warning-system.21846/"]announcement for the rules warning system application[/DLMURL], this is the discussion for members to help refine the system further, if required, or voice your feedback as required.

We have been tweaking the system progressively over the past week in order to try and be a little more empathetic towards new members introduction to the forum, yet not simply lay down and rollover, as the largest portion of issues is typically from new members failure to read rules before posting. We have very little issue with older members, rarely obtain such notices as they are well aware of the strict nature of rules here, which is not up for debate.

We have just created a "new member" one-time warning, for those members who's usertitle still says "New Member". This will not be applied to anyone who has surpassed that posting status level, as that demonstrates an effective time and posting history of which a person has complied with forum rules / been able to learn them adequately / accept the way this forum works.

It contains no points and is specific to be more helpful in guiding a new member to the relevant information, typically being the largest issue:

Title: Strict Forum Rules Apply

Message:
Hi {name},

This is a one-time new member warning to highlight important aspects that you have agreed to comply with by registering and participating within this forum.

PTSD Forum has a strict ruleset due to the very topic nature of PTSD, being a mental illness. Put thousands of people in one place with PTSD, it becomes chaos without strict rules.

Further warnings contain points that accrue, which could apply a temporary ban to your account. To avoid such issues, you are recommended to read the following important information before further postings:

• Forum rules
• New member information
• Legal policy

The help section contains most answers to new member questions. You can read why a rules warning system is requiredto understand its importance.

You can ask staff questions from the help desk forum to aid your use of this website. There are video tutorials to help members understand forum functions and in some instances, forum rules, better.

Again, this is a courtesy notice that strict forum rules apply, as you have breached forum rules for posted content to obtain this courtesy notice, before the actual points warning system is applied to your posts.

Regards,

PTSD Forum Staff

The warning system works like this. There are two warning actions defined, both are set at a points threshold, being:

• 100 points - Temp ban usergroup added to your account revoking posting access.
• 150 points - Discouraged filter added to your account making it very difficult to view site.

In other words, the warnings themselves have zero actions except they contain a specific number of points for a duration, at which time the points expire at the end of the duration.

If you accumulate enough points to exceed the action threshold, then the action is applied instantly to your account.

So if you accumulate 100 points quickly, you would get posting access revoked automatically until a specific warning/s automatically expired from your account, bringing you back under the points threshold.

We have made the system extremely difficult for one to ban themselves, though it is easily possible if you don't want to follow forum rules. The warnings are:

• New Member - 0 points / remains listed on your account.
• Attacking member / staff - 30 points / 1 month
• Basic grammar failure - 10 points / 7 days
• Hot-linking images - 10 points / 7 days
• Posting in incorrect forum - 10 points / 7 days (used only when blatant)
• Quoting entire posts - 10 points / 7 days
• Self promotion / advertising - 50 points / 1 month (used on established members only, Not new members deemed to immediately advertise.. aka. spam)
• Suicidal posting - 110 points / 5 days
• Text formatting - 10 points / 7 days

There are then four temp bans consisting of 110 points for 1, 3, 7 & 14 days which can be applied in certain situations.

You can only be warned for one offence per post, however; once you have reached beyond new member, every single post can be warned if a repeated mistake is made.

Upon a warning being issues, the warning title will be publicly displayed on the posted content, as well as a no-reply PC being sent to the member with a predefined message outlining the points, duration, posted content and links to rules and other such relevant pieces of information to help the member.

For example, the quote warning PC contains a link to the quote help video, so a member can watch it and learn how to use the quote system correctly vs. quoting entire long posts all over the forum, making it difficult to read.

A suicidal person is given specific information to seek local help, etc.

This thread is for member feedback, questions, discussions, how to improve the system, etc.

 

[Gamereign555]

If I could get an explanation for what that last bullet there called 'Text Formatting' is?

 

[anthony]

Changing default text type, size, colours, etc, outside of the chit chat forum, as per forum rules state.

 

[Gamereign555]

Thanks.

 

[Hashi]

I realise I may be committing PTSDForum membership suicide by posting this, but what the heck.

I'm afraid I really don't understand the take-no-prisoners approach to things here. I understand about having rules, but I don't understand the harshness with which they're applied. Many of the things I see here by way of warnings could be communicated in a very different way. The rules could still be there, the warnings could still be there, but instead of phrasing along the lines of "quit it, or I'll ban you" (eg [DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/somatic-experiencing-have-you-tried-it.22214/[/DLMURL]) Why not something like "you may not have realised this is against the rules, but it is. We respond to that with a temporary - or sometimes permanent - ban. We really don't want to have to ban you, so please could you stop doing X?"

The message above for our comments could say something like, "As a new member and someone dealing with PTSD, you may not have read the rules or taken them in. However, you've agreed to them by joining and we do enforce them. This is for the sake of all members of the forum. Please read them through and ask if anything isn't clear" or "I'm afraid we don't have the resources to go into details on posts which break one of the basic rules. Please read through the rules..."

I can't help wondering who gains from the more terse phrasing of messages. Maybe the shorter, more abrupt message gets across. But what message is that exactly, if you've just reached out and joined the forum? That you messed up yet again?

To me this isn't even consistent. The rules are there because of the nature of PTSD. Isn't the nature of PTSD for many people also to be sensitive and to have low self esteem? Haven't many people with PTSD experienced abuse? Haven't they have enough terse phrasing and ultimatums already? Isn't it the nature of PTSD to have trouble concentraing and therefore find information hard to take in? Personally, I appreciate the fact that you write things concisely in bullet points, but it's still hard to absorb it all.

I also wondered what the evidence is for the statement "Put thousands of people in one place with PTSD, it becomes chaos without strict rules." Has there been research into this, particularly in the context of online forums? I'm curious because I'm also a member of another forum for survivors of trauma, where no-one is ever warned about their grammar or lack of paragraphs. Somehow, chaos doesn't seem to happen there. There are posts there that don''t follow strict grammar rules, and nothing terrible seems to happen. There are sometimes posts that are hard to read, or even pretty much unreadable. Those posts are few and don't get many responses. In fact, the few responses they get from fellow members often suggest that paragraphs etc would help other people to read and reply. "Natural selection" (= few or no responses) and the peer group seem to sort it out.

Anthony, I'm sure you can shoot me down in flames if you want to over the points I''ve made. I'm not posting to be right though, or to be confrontational. I'm posting because I think you've done a great thing -actually a very remarkable thing - in creating this site which has so many good, supportive people and creates a space for sharing and healing. I just don't get the feeling of ruthlessness/attack that I see to do with enforcing the rules, it seems at odds with all the good things I see here, and I believe the rules could still be enforced with a gentler approach.

Hashi

 

[anthony]

A lot of things may be able to be done with a gentle approach, but quite honestly, unless you have the experience with running such a forum, then you really don't know much about what goes on behind the scenes on this one, being the worlds largest single PTSD resource and support site.

You can write the most gentle response possible, and still a person comes back attacking. All older staff can validate this. It just doesn't matter what approach is taken, the same result occurs from certain people. When the forum first started, a more gentler approach could be taken as there were less member, thus time was not as consuming, but the problem with that approach is that there will be a response with more questions, discussion, etc etc. Well... now the forum has over 1000+ active members at any given time in a month, do the math and work out how many conversations you would have to respond to with more information and such... then factor that into your life. Suddenly, you don't have a life and your life becomes responding to warm and fluffy.

I do not personally have the time or inclination to tip toe around things with people... if you don't want to hear the truth, and hear it directly, then don't ask me. I'm not known for sugar coating things or wrapping what can be said in a sentence within a short story, so the person loses the point or the point becomes lost in the waffle of warm and fluffy.

Some staff are warm and fluffy, which is their personality and approach... I'm not. Older staff tried this approach themselves when they first come onboard. Suddenly, within a few months they realised how much time they ended up in PC's with members, trying to be warm and fluffy with them, empathetic and such, when it came to forum matters. All of a sudden, they begin to waste a lot of their time on responding to such things and getting into discussions that they don't have time to deal with, as they have family, jobs, a life, etc.

I don't really care what happens on other forums, as every forum is vastly different in nature. A trauma forum is not a PTSD forum, as everyone who endures trauma DOES NOT have PTSD. Vast difference in topics, symptoms and the member base upon the forum who could be highly triggered one moment, dissociative the next, or full or rage the next. Experience over the past 6 years has dictated the approach adopted here today, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[anthony]

I will also highlight, as forum feedback occurred to staff about warnings, warning messages have been changed. The example used in the first post actually now reads:

#########################################################

Title: Reminder Notice Of Forum Policies

Content:

Hi {name},

This is a default system notification to highlight that PTSD Forum has strict rules and policies due to its topic nature, being mental illness. This message highlights links to forum policies, which you accepted and agreed to comply with, when you completed PTSD Forum registration.

You agreed to read and comply with the following upon registration:

• [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/help/rules"]Forum rules[/DLMURL]
• [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/help/terms"]Legal policy[/DLMURL]

There are further important links to assist new members with easing into participation upon PTSD Forum.

There is a dedicated [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/help/new-member"]new member information[/DLMURL] page to assist new members in locating and learning other important aspects. The [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/help/"]help section[/DLMURL] contains answers to many questions.

You can ask staff questions from the [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/forums/help-desk.28/"]help desk forum[/DLMURL] to aid your use of this website. There are [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/forums/video-tutorials.93/"]video tutorials[/DLMURL] to help members understand forum features and rules better.

Regards,

PTSD Forum Staff

#########################################################

Vast difference between the two, yet we still get an equal amount of messages back when this notice is given.

 

[Hashi]

Thank you for your considered response to my post.

I do think, as I said, that you've done a remarkable thing in setting up this forum. You've brought some very special people together here. i think there are points we probably would never agree on, but you've given me an understanding of where you're coming from and the boundaries you feel you need to set.

Thank you,

Hashi

 

[blynn895]

Whats wrong with a little warmth and caring? I sure could use some! I agree with Hashi's original post, things will sort themselves out with these small petty matters, only need moderators to keep an eye on big things like abusive language, etc.

 

[anthony]

Again, rules aren't up for debate, nor does this thread elude to such questions being asked. This thread is about the rules warning system only, not rules themselves.

 

[Death]

I feel for you, Anthony. People whine about my rules all the time, too.

 

[Death]

Not that it does them any good.