Saying No

[shimmerz]

And not feeling like I am going to be killed, abused, destroyed for doing so.....

Any advice? Anybody gotten good at saying no?

 

[ladee]

@shimmerz, are you talking about in relationships or just life in general?

 

[rainy_daze]

[ETA: Shimmerz, I hope I interpreted your question the right way. If not, just disregard the following]

I'm good at saying it now, but that doesn't mean others are good at hearing it. The first time I practised it amongst people who I care for and who care for me, that way it felt safe. I remember my T asking how it felt, but I can only remember it was still difficult for the people I was with to accept the no. It doesn't feel good when it is not heard.

My advice is to start practising it in a situation you feel safe to do so. Be prepared there might be people who don't understand why you are saying no, and who might question this, and insist on their own way [even if they are not trying to do you any harm; I just said no to joining in a game that would have physically hurt me due to an injury. I had a great time just watching].

I sometimes shock myself with saying no and being heard. It feels good when you get the ball rolling, and know that the consequences of saying it are not bad. In all likelihood @shimmerz you will not be physically hurt for saying no. In all the times I have said it since then [the first big practice which was a big thing for me in therapy], I have never been harmed.

Good luck :tup: you can do it.

 

[scout86]

Practice? Seriously. A form of exposure therapy? Channel your inner 2 YO? (Do you suppose this is why little kids go through that "No!" stage?)

I'm not good at it either, but I think @rainy_daze is right. Start small and in a safe situation. You could probably even explain what you're doing to your SO and let him know you plan to start practicing. I've practiced this some by saying "No" in situations where I truly didn't care and didn't think anyone else did either. "Do you want pancakes for breakfast Scout?" "No." The proverbial baby steps.

 

[shimmerz]

It is not my SO but his family. There seem to be 'expectations' here as to what women 'do' and I ain't that. These are all VERY new people to me. I feel there will be huge implications if i don't 'do' what the women here do. My SO says I am making too much of it, but I don't think so. However, the feeling of doom I am getting with actually following through with putting my boundaries up (as I have tried quite a few times before but I am getting large pushback)..... that is inflated. I can see that.

But these expectations keep coming up .... regularly. Head is spun a bit. Let me come back in the morning. Maybe I will be clearer. Thank you all. Very much.

 

[scout86]

Oh THAT kind of "saying no". Slightly different, but this is something I can speak to a little.

Even my T says I've "managed to escape pretty much all the conventional stereotypes". Which is maybe a nice way of saying I'm different, but I generally don't "fit in". Fortunately most of my life I've been totally oblivious to what the "conventional stereotypes" actually WERE. Or that there was a such thing. (No idea how that happened.)

But, I've learned over the years that, now and then, there's an advantage to being perceived as "crazy" or maybe "eccentric" is a better word. You just do what you want to do and be what you want to be and pretend (if you have to) that you don't notice that anyone's noticed. People will get over it in time. They'll either accept you as you are. Or not. (You're way cool, they should. :)) These expectations really ARE theirs. YOU don't have to accept them. You may, politely, turn them down. Much as one might turn down a generous offering of pickled turkey gizzards. Or beets. And, strange as it may seem, the world won't end. A few people might say "That Shimmerz is a bit odd. She doesn't enjoy basket weaving." or what ever. But they'll get used to the idea. Might even expand their horizons a little.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

Does your SO come from a family of controlling women?
I don't want to be a trouble maker but I see that your SO said you are making too much of it as a red flag and that is what you need to address.
If you are feeling pressured or that his family is attempting to make "digs" saying you "should" be this or that. You should be comfortable saying that's not you and KNOW your SO will nip it in the bud and tell them in front of you at that moment, you don't need to be anyone but who you are because that is exactly how your SO loves you and wants you.

 

[SunflowerHoney]

Your question really struck me. Just in the past year I was able to figure out and put into words this phenomenon that happens to me. When I get into a tense or heated situation with someone and try to stand up for myself, I can only go so far. If I get any backlash AT ALL, I freeze and then somehow try to placate the other person. Smooth things over, say I'm sorry, make a joke about PMS, etc. And then later I snap out of that weird foggy feeling (is that what it means to dissociate?) and realize that I allowed that person to treat me like crap, I never got to have my say and I'm still really upset. I've got a reputation for "beating a dead horse" because the other person thinks the situation is resolved so why am I bringing it up again? I try to explain that I didn't actually say what I wanted and when they get annoyed, I freeze and the cycle starts over again. Now I know it's because standing up for myself feels very scary and dangerous . I never heard anyone else say that before. I've tried to explain that part to my closest friend, how my past makes those things scary, and she said I was being dramatic and making excuses for being a brat. Ugh.

Sorry for the rambling. I jusr wanted to share my story since your question looked like I might have written it.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

I learned to stand up for myself a little but mostly not. I usually hold it in and hold and hold and then kaPOW, I'm around the bend steam coming out of my ears, venom in my words and totally irrational.
If I have no choice but to say no, the guilt oozes and I apologize
Yep, I have to work on assertiveness. I see it in other people and it's like they speak a foreign language or were born with a gene I obviously didn't get. I got the excuse me for living gene.
This is one of the reasons I avoid relationships.

 

[shimmerz]

but that doesn't mean others are good at hearing it.

This really struck me. I thank you for this, as it allows me to see outside of what others seem to be seeing as a 'failure' in me.

In all likelihood @shimmerz you will not be physically hurt for saying no.

Thank you @rainy_daze , I so appreciate the encouragement. I have practiced saying 'stop' but never actually with the word NO somehow.

Channel your inner 2 YO? (Do you suppose this is why little kids go through that "No!" stage?)

I suppose during the time that most children are saying no incessantly, I had other very serious things I was dealing with.

"managed to escape pretty much all the conventional stereotypes".

Yes, this is it. There is soundly a 'role' that women play here. It all revolves around food. Food, food, food.... which means kitchen, kitchen, kitchen (which I can't do yet). It is incessant. They are pushing me and I am attempting to form the 'new me' and food just isn't part of the master plan. I will cook when I feel like cooking. I was always a shitty 'woman role' chick. I don't think that has changed (nor do I want it to) with this new iteration of me.

there's an advantage to being perceived as "crazy" or maybe "eccentric"

My SO who encouraged me to speak to his birth mother about my issues, and I had a talk yesterday. My exact words:
"I would much rather be seen of as selfish than crazy. My T warned me about this. I am doing it right this time. I refuse to be seen as the gun toting PTSD'er who is violent and nuts all wrapped into one as is normally portrayed in the media these days. Made that mistake once, not doing it again.'

Again, he said I was over reacting.

Does your SO come from a family of controlling women?

I am starting to think so. They are trying to paint me into a role and I won't have it. I am trying to figure out a generally socially acceptable way of saying f*ck off and leave me alone without actually saying it.

My SO is generally very good about things and has been putting out fires for me with this stuff (it is happening a lot). Now I keep hearing how I need to make mac and cheese for my new mil. No. I can't cook. Cooking is a trigger. But it is none of anyone's business that it is a trigger. I feel like I am on a very slippery slope here as this is my new 'home' and I have no other people that I know here.

If I get any backlash AT ALL, I freeze and then somehow try to placate the other person.

Yep, this is what is happening with me. Or I will think about it and say 'screw it, I will just tell her' or get all angry about it later on. I am avoiding right now (now I recognize the value in avoidance), but I don't want to get caught in that pattern either.

I guess I am trying to figure out how to say NO without giving reasons, making excuses, avoiding, lying. Just simply saying NO. I feel like I am being set up here somehow. Like there is an agenda. My head just doesn't get why this person is being so damned forceful about this issue.

Thanks all for your responses. It has helped quite a bit.

 

[EveHarrington]

"If I say no, they will not like me."

This goes round and round inside my head. I end up in very bad situations because of it.

I'm learning how to finally say "no" myself. It is hard, and I have a long journey ahead of me.

I think we can both overcome this "no" obstacle!

 

[scout86]

Looking for their motives might not be very useful. Unless you want to actually ask and try to have a conversation about it. Think about how it goes when we guess. We tend to put the spin on it we've experienced in the past. The worst spin. The one that caused us the most trouble. Maybe set "motive" on the shelf.

The point is, you want to be free to BE the lovely, evolving version of shimmerz you actually ARE, right? And to be allowed to keep evolving? My suggestion would be to take a deep breath and just DO. In the "Flow" sense of it. Nothing bad will happen. At worst you'll confuse people.

A story by way of illustration. I tend to cook like I dabble in chemistry. Sometimes it's fun and I do it, but being tied down to having to prepare meals for other people is NOT my thing. My ex, on the other hand, enjoyed that. Cool! I LOVE being outside working with the animals. He preferred cooking to doing chores. This worked quite well. I know that our neighbors thought we had a strange relationship. Not a problem. His family was/is a lot like what you're talking about. At family gatherings, I hung out in the living room and talked farming with the guys WAY more than I ever hung out in the kitchen. They got used to it. Did anyone have a problem with it? I have no idea, I never asked.

Just do your own thing your own way. Totally. It will be fine. They'll get used to it. Really they will. I won't say you're over reacting. I'd more say you're reacting to a different family. If it turns out they can't accept you for you? Then you don't want to play with them much anyway. :hug: