Service dog handler lobby

[Sideways]

I’m trying to understand their perspective

I know that there’s a community legal service here that lets staff alternately bring in their small pet dogs to the office. Again, not therapy dogs, just pets. Small, cute, cuddly.

I think the perspective comes from the same lines as “bring your dog to work day”. There is a small amount of evidence that having digs in the workplace is good for staff morale, etc. Like having plants in offices, only next level.

And (try not to hate me) I do understand the benefit they would potentially bring to a therapy office. For people that don’t have a SD with them, dogs are a really positve game changer for people’s headspace. Feeling depressed, or distressed - introduce a dog to the scenario and most people feel better in the moment. That’s why the legal service has them - it helps the bulk of their clients feel better when they’re in a really bad headspace.

It doesn’t work if there’s no boundaries, no safe ‘dog free’ spaces. Because of the reasons you’ve stated, but also because not everyone likes dogs, some people have allergies, and some people can’t be trusted to handle the dog gently.

So it’s not workable if it’s just a ‘bring your dog’ free for all. Yes, there are measurable benefits of bringing pets to work. But it needs to be managed well to be a real solution.

Probably you aren’t the only patient to have an issue with these dogs. At the same time, there may well be a lot of patients that use that clinic because of the dogs. Doesn’t make it okay, but that may be their perspective.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

None of these “therapy dogs” that have been problematic are actually trained and certified therapy dogs.

they have all said theirs are not trained or certified. In some cases they are in no pet office buildings

This is the problem. I would consult with a disabilty lawyer (or any lawyer) because that isn't legal. Even if I were personally in this situtation and just said it isn't worth it (which I probably would) that is a huge issue with others with service dogs or even others that are allergic to dogs. Hell, I have a pitbull. Probably has the shortest hair of all breeds and his belly and a few other areas are bald. I keep him very groomed and well clean and yet have had some really start to get allergic reactions even when I have moved to the other side of the waiting room (which I try to do). I mean, this is a real problem!

So, even if I have walked away, I would still want to consult with legal aid or something or someone and turn them in. If this is a non-pet friendly office building then this is a non-pet friendly office building and these are not registered or cerified therapy dogs, thus pets, and arguably possibly aggressive. That is a huge issue.

Again, so sorry that you have to go through this!

 

[joeylittle]

I think, @Justmehere - the issue is whether or not they are required to grant public access. And I guess that would come down to things about their business, and who owns it, their operating license, etc. But if having free-range dogs is somehow integral to them operating their business (? or rather, they can articulate why it's policy), I'm not sure they are legally required to change how they operate. So long as they aren't saying you cannot bring your dog - and it doesn't sound they are saying that, though I might have missed it. They're saying they won't leash theirs, and that might be legal for their business.

It's not at all good behavior on their part, and I think they are being absolute jerks...but I'm not sure the posters who are saying that it's illegal, are correct.

(I also know you're super-smart about the law around these things.)

What I wanted to say is, I'm really sorry you're having such a tough time of things. You're doing one of the hardest things, which is working a getting mental health support. It's f*cking hard. And no-one deserves the kinds of hurdles that you are getting thrown in your path.

Moving on from this place is probably the best option....maybe it would be worth investigating whether there are any appointment times that are outside of more traditional office hours, so that the dogs were gone for the day?

 

[siniang]

I'm a BIG proponent of allowing pets to come to work with you. Really wished, more businesses would allow it. Tons of benefits for everyone involved (owner, pet, office climate, ...) But obviously it's common courtesy to have them behaved and retrain them if necessary.

I think, @Justmehere - the issue is whether or not they are required to grant public access. And I guess that would come down to things about their business, and who owns it, their operating license, etc. But if having free-range dogs is somehow integral to them operating their business (? or rather, they can articulate why it's policy), I'm not sure they are legally required to change how they operate. So long as they aren't saying you cannot bring your dog - and it doesn't sound they are saying that, though I might have missed it. They're saying they won't leash theirs, and that might be legal for their business.

It's not at all good behavior on their part, and I think they are being absolute jerks...but I'm not sure the posters who are saying that it's illegal, are correct.

If they claim their pets are (certified) therapy dogs to gain access to no-pet buildings? Which in itself doesn't even make sense to begin with as only SDs have public access rights. ESAs and therapy animals do not. (and I somehow doubt free ranging dogs are essential to running a CLINIC. This isn't a petting zoo).

It's like all the fake SDs and ESAs.

Besides, the argument "Others (with and without SD) have no problem with this, so why should you" is among the shittiest ever.

But as I mentioned, I don't know about the laws in this case, not claiming to :) Just voicing my opinion (and frustration) and thoughts from what I do know on the subject matter (which is obviously very limited compared to you SD handlers - just throwing in some point of views from the therapy dog side of things as I'm involved with those).

 

[Justmehere]

It’s ok for them to have loose dogs until it “interferes with the work of a service dog” - then it becomes a crime in my state. (Geez. Talk about no middle ground.) They pretty much guaranteed their dogs would jump on mine and this happens for others. Thus the ADA request they leash or control their otherwise loose dogs for the 1 hour. Which they have denied. Too much trouble. They would have an uphill battle that asking them to leash the dogs or have them not jump on mine for 1 hour would be an “undue burden” and an allowable denial of an ADA request for a place of public accommodation, which is what they even agree they are... so there is that civil means for remedy.

There is internal conflict about it though in that the therapist is willing to have me show up, wait outside, call her, she escorts me in and tries to keep her boss’s dogs off. It’s a Large and new clinic, but clearly doesn’t have their stuff worked out internally because the therpaist is expressing frustrations with her boss over this to me.

In the end, if I go, it will be sans service dog. I told her this. Forget it. Wayyy to much drama. Even if they change, I am not trusting of them on this anyhow. Which is why I asked to schedule and just not bring my service dog.

But the bigger issue is that I’m not even in the door and I already feel unwanted and jumpy and like crap. I have no other numbers of other clinics to call anymore. This clinic’s name begins with a “W” and there isn’t anyone else on the list of clinics that take my insurance. I’ve exhausted the list. The therapist said her model was “CBT and creating safe places for clients to have corrective emotional experience.” Fighting this mess is counter productive to building a trusting therapeutic relationship.

I don’t fight many battles about access for my SD. Most places are ok with it and the few places that are not, I usually don’t bother.

This one hurts. I hate fights about “oh no my dog should get special treatment over yours... “ something feels wrong with society when we are at that point. I try to always keep it in perspective. Dogs are dogs, even when they are tools for a disability, humans are humans and while I would probably take a bullet for my dog, human relationships matter too...

I’m going to wait and see if they end up still canceling my appointment over this matter. If they do, then I might report it. They advertise at the local disability agency and perhaps need to rethink that if this is their stance. If they don’t cancel, I’ll go in sans dog and see if they are worth the extra trouble.

 

[joeylittle]

It’s ok for them to have loose dogs until it “interferes with the work of a service dog” - then it becomes a crime in my state...They would have an uphill battle that asking them to leash the dogs or have them not jump on mine for 1 hour would be an “undue burden” and an allowable denial of an ADA request for a place of public accommodation, which is what they even agree they are... so there is that civil means for remedy.

Thanks for laying that out. Makes sense.

I feel for you. It must get exhausting, knowing the ins and outs of the law the way you do, and having to engage with a business that clearly doesn't (know the law and how it applies to them).

The therapist being willing to help is at least a plus 1 for the therapist. Though, rvealing their frustrations at their boss over the whole thing isn't good boundaries, so that might have cancelled out their little positive attempt.

This one hurts. I hate fights about “oh no my dog should get special treatment over yours... “ something feels wrong with society when we are at that point. I try to always keep it in perspective. Dogs are dogs, even when they are tools for a disability, humans are humans and while I would probably take a bullet for my dog, human relationships matter too...

I’m going to wait and see if they end up still canceling my appointment over this matter. If they do, then I might report it. They advertise at the local disability agency and perhaps need to rethink that if this is their stance. If they don’t cancel, I’ll go in sans dog and see if they are worth the extra trouble.

This all sounds very well-reasoned - a solid decision criteria.

Sending you support.

 

[siniang]

Hey SD folks, I came across this link on recent air travel policy changes in the US. Not quite sure how/why "Psychiatric SDs" would be distinct from other SDs, but I thought I'd at least pass it on. Might just be another case of confusing the various terms, but you never know.

Y'all probably have better resources to double check.


DOT Issues New Rules for Service, Emotional Support Animals

Advance Notice: Airlines are prohibited from requiring advance notice for passengers traveling with service animals as this notice “may significantly harm passengers with disabilities” as it prevents these passengers from making last-minute travel plans necessary for work or family emergencies. However, airlines are allowed to require advanced notice for emotional support animals (ESAs) and psychiatric support animals (PSAs).

• Many airlines (Alaska, AA, Delta, Spirit, United) require passengers traveling with ESAs or PSAs to file paperwork 48 hours or more before departure

 

[Sideways]

Bordering on a completely ridiculous system: is a ‘psychiatric support animal’ the same as a psychiatric service dog? I’m assuming they’re different?

 

[siniang]

Bordering on a completely ridiculous system: is a ‘psychiatric support animal’ the same as a psychiatric service dog? I’m assuming they’re different?

Yeah, I was really confused about that verbage, too. Have to admit I didn’t pull up the official DOT documents - I scanned the ones where they asked for public comments last year, but nothing stood out there

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Hey SD folks, I came across this link on recent air travel policy changes in the US. Not quite sure how/why "Psychiatric SDs" would be distinct from other SDs, but I thought I'd at least pass it on. Might just be another case of confusing the various terms, but you never know.

Y'all probably have better resources to double check.


DOT Issues New Rules for Service, Emotional Support Animals

I believe this is the requirement that happened due to Delta banning pitbull service dogs. I remember seeing something on the news about them needing to write a new policy about it. Not real sure and would have to look it up but I believe this is a result of that. Airlines are not managed but the ADA but the ACAA so they have different rules.

 

[siniang]

I believe this is the requirement that happened due to Delta banning pitbull service dogs. I remember seeing something on the news about them needing to write a new policy about it. Not real sure and would have to look it up but I believe this is a result of that. Airlines are not managed but the ADA but the ACAA so they have different rules.

Yes, this is in response to Delta banning pitbulls and other airlines lobbying for regulation changes. They issued the new policy/clarifications in August this year. Mostly towards ESAs, but this part stood out that might be relevant to you SD handlers.

 

[Sideways]

Has anyone ever taken their SD to a movie? Is it too loud?

It’s been a long time, better part of a decade, since I went to see a movie, like, in the cinema. But Zombieland 2 is coming out, and...it would be a really cool experience to have if doggo could handle it...and I could handle it.

Too much? Too loud?