Sex And Feeling Pressured

[Sideways]

But I let things continue as I was worried he'd be upset if I asked him to stop.

Everything that @Stickler said.

But I just want to add, again, what you've said here - that's rape.

Rape is sex without consent. But "consent" isn't through gritted teeth because even though I don't want to, if I don't he'll x, y and z.

Consent has to be freely and voluntarily given. Anything less, not consent. You agreeing to sex when the both of you know that you don't want to? That's rape.

And that's really awful.

 

[Draiocht]

Okay, so because all of this is terrifying to consider, I'm giving myself time to get used to the idea that I've ended up replicating previous destructive relationships without realising it. I'm paying very careful attention to all the minutiae of our interactions until my next therapy appointment. That's probably my way of distancing myself. It's like playing detective with my own life. Unfortunately I remember doing exactly that during the worst parts of a past abusive relationship.

I can't help feeling this is just me being crazy. I suppose that's the point though.

 

[Hooper]

Got a question. In all my relationships (limited) they followed a similar pattern. In the beginning sex was frequent. This lasts a year or so. Then it tapers off to what is the norm for each persons libido range. Mine is always higher. I've read about it and their are evolutionary reasons for it but from the perspective of a guy in a relationship it can be very frustrating. I knew my wife had been date raped in the beginning of our relationship but did not get the feeling she cared to discuss in detail so it was always in the back of my mind when frequency decreased and I just accepted it. Then a little over a year ago I asked what happened (got a whole thread on that one). Bottom line I had no desire to be what he was but was highly frustrated with the lack of frequency/mismatched desire. From reading what you've posted I think my wife has gotten further along as far as getting to a better place since it has been over 20 years ago and we've been together 16 years. I don't want to sound offensive but if you're in a relationship with a woman you find to be very attractive it is difficult to not want to have sex and be the one who constantly does not get what you want. If I want to have sex 4 days a week and she would be fine with 1 day a week she gets what she wants 7 out of 7 days a week when we go by her schedule and I get what I want 1 out of 7 days a week. My options were very limited because I don't want to cheat on my wife nor do I care for an open arrangement so I just discussed it with her and we compromised. Now it's pretty much a 3 day a week deal. I'll probably get skewered for this but I don't see many men responding and figure the perspective on 1 may be of use. Back to the question. Was frequency higher in the beginning leaving your partner feeling interest in him was lost/diminished as time went on?

 

[Sideways]

@Hooper - you anticipated this!!!

With the greatest respect, the frequency of sex at the start of this relationship is immaterial. It is not a consideration right now. In the future when sex is no longer re-traumatising and has become an enjoyable experience? Sure. Have the conversation then.

But the implication that a woman with ptsd from sexual trauma, who is being retraumatised by sex, should be putting her partner's libido before her own recovery? Wtf???

If this was someone recovering from cancer, and sex was making their cancer worse, would you suggest that "Cancer aside, consider my sex drive..."

If libido is such an insatiable requirement for this guy that he literally can't get by without it, even knowing that it's retraumatising his partner each time, then he needs counselling and/or a new relationship.

Women never (ever) have to grit their teeth and bare it if their partner wants sex and they don't. And when the sex is actually doing the woman an immense amount of damage, and the partner KNOWS it, the fact that he'd put that on her and not accept it as his own personal issue is not only disgusting, it's criminal.

It's very common to need to re-learn intimacy after sexual trauma. It's very common for sexual abuse victims to need "no sex" for a period while they recover.

No means no. Pressuring a woman into sex regardless of "No" is rape, regardless of what his "libido" would prefer.

 

[scout86]

I'm going to agree with both of the last 2 posts. Because I think they're both right. And I think this is something people need to talk about. And, in talking, you either come to an arrangement that works for both parties or you don't. In that case, the relationship just isn't going to work. That doesn't make anyone the "bad guy". (Saying that, I realize, for the first time, it's actually kind of a sexist expression.) It just means that both parties are at different places. I think the best thing, all the way around, is for everyone to be honest from the beginning and then to believe what they're told. Not that that actually happens......... Sometimes, we probably get in to relationships without realizing we aren't ready to BE in that kind of relationship. It's probably a good idea to try to think that through ahead of time and then pay attention to the realities. If you aren't at a place where you can handle sex, you probably should avoid those kinds of relationships until you can. .

 

[Anarchy]

hmmm

there is a joke that cats and dogs are always licking their bits - because they can

most humans can't, but a right hand is still a way to defeat frustration, and destroy eyesight.

:geek:
ahhh Glasshoppa
;)

 

[scout86]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :)

 

[Sideways]

This is a situation where they've had the conversation. More than once. And he's putting it on her regardless of the effect that he knows it's having.

I'm not a man-hater. Quite the contrary. I like to think that generally speaking, men have evolved enough to be able to deal with issues like this without resorting to rape.

 

[scout86]

My partner of 5 years was upset when I told him I feel pressured into sex; he felt like it was a slight on his character. Thing is when you're not used to healthy intimacy it can be difficult to tell what is okay and what isn't, which is why I'm posting this.

He's not forceful but my own fears trap me. Feelings of sex being the only thing I'm worth, and having been in a bad relationship some years back where my frigid behaviour earned me vindictive comments and I was made to believe it was my fault he cheated on me repeatedly. So currently that's not an issue, but it's unconsciously making me feel nauseous, you know? If I don't have sex, he is going to lose interest, sleep with other people, leave me, etc. For sure he is grumpy when I say no. But sometimes he won't let it slide.

All this stuff is complicated and, of course, we only hear one version of it. I was kind of going off what I just quoted. That quote makes perfect sense to me. The OP has a lot of internal conflicts and confusions about sex. Totally understandable. I share a bunch of them, at least part of the time. From there on, honestly, I'm not sure how much of the description of the situation is dead on accurate and how much is projection, mind reading, what ever. It totally makes sense to me that those things would be issues. But, it's not really the job of a partner in a romantic relationship to read through all that, is it? I mean, if they really want to, fine, but, to me at least, it seems more fair that you work that boundary type stuff out FIRST, THEN you get in a relationship. If you find yourself in a relationship you're not equipped to to handle, you get out as gracefully as possible. And you don't blame the other party. I don't think it's anyone's job to deal with my issues besides ME.

It sounds to me like the OP has some stuff she needs to sort out. To expect the average "civilian" to get all of it is asking kind of a lot, I think. But, I don't really see anyone being at fault here. Just not the right time, maybe not the right combination of people either, but maybe it would be on down the road when she's got a better idea of what's ok with her and what's not.

 

[Hooper]

With the greatest respect, the frequency of sex at the start of this relationship is immaterial. It is not a consideration right now. In the future when sex is no longer re-traumatising and has become an enjoyable experience? Sure. Have the conversation then.

If sex is frequent at the beginning of a relationship and then it is not and is re-traumatizing it is material. Sex is an odd thing in that it is a major part of our existence and future existence but it is not discussed and it should be. A lot of future problems can be avoided if everything is put on the table up front.

But the implication that a woman with ptsd from sexual trauma, who is being retraumatised by sex, should be putting her partner's libido before her own recovery? Wtf???

Part of a relationship is a compromise between 2 people. I don't think it is fair to put my sex drive above my wife's trauma nor would it have been fair for her to have expected me to expect to have sex once or twice every 2 weeks when we started out at twice a day for the first 6 months. I didn't expect it to continue at that rate nor did I expect it to decline to the extent that it did. As it turned out things worked out well. I hope they do for Draiocht. If there is a cycle that is repeating itself can be stopped by discussing the thing no one wants to discuss in detail then the discussion of sex in a relationship needs to be had.

If this was someone recovering from cancer, and sex was making their cancer worse, would you suggest that "Cancer aside, consider my sex drive..."

No I would not but if I went into the relationship having frequent sex and then it became a major issue I would like to have known upfront.

If libido is such an insatiable requirement for this guy that he literally can't get by without it, even knowing that it's retraumatising his partner each time, then he needs counselling and/or a new relationship.

Agreed.

Women never (ever) have to grit their teeth and bare it if their partner wants sex and they don't.

I agree but the opposite is true as well. Men do not have to stay in partnerships where their partners do not want to have sex with them. It is painful to be rejected by the person we love most for whatever the reason. I am very aware of what happened to my wife. She is very aware of how I feel when I am not wanted by the person I love most. Our discussion was very candid and it worked. Draiocht may not have much to work with with her partner on working out a solution that works for both parties. If that is the case the sooner it ends the better for both parties.

And when the sex is actually doing the woman an immense amount of damage, and the partner KNOWS it, the fact that he'd put that on her and not accept it as his own personal issue is not only disgusting, it's criminal.

If the partner KNEW it from very beginning and the frequency of sex was the same then as now I agree 100%. In my case I knew my wife was date raped but lacked the details for 15 years. What I KNEW evolved over time and to be honest I'm the one who didn't handle it well. I wanted to do serious harm to the person. I'm getting away from the topic but my point is it is complex and requires honest discussion. In our case things turned out very well. We've never been closer. As immaterial as you think my question is I do think it has bearing on the discussion.

 

[mary1979]

This to me is one of those 'much bigger picture' deals.

I agree with all those saying its unfair he makes you feel this way, but wonder (from personal experience not anything thats come from you) if perhaps you also make yourself feel this way to an extent.

I've been where you are. For over a decade, and when both he and I were just babies of 19.
He also had been sexually abused.
But he was still a young man, and not a very intelligent one.
He said and did lots of dumb and triggering crap, sometimes intentionally and others because he was a hot blooded moron.

Also been on the other side, with a man who never initiated sex. Instinctively understood my sensitivities and worked hard to ensure I felt safe at all times.

I still managed at times to victimise myself in the second instance quite efficiently anyhow.
Its what we do when we know no other way.

So with that in mind, I say, before you throw him to the wolves and write him off totally.
Take him to your therapist.
If your therapist is a man, even better.
Leave them to walk through it together.

And then get back to working on you. You have a lot to get through yourself and even if this relationship doesn't work, you need to heal this so the next one doesn't go the same way.

Think of it this way.
The glue that binds a relationship is the giving and receiving of intimacy.
If one half of the party feels like the other is terrified, sickened and repulsed by the other, how on earth can you expect it to stick?

 

[Draiocht]

I agree with all those saying its unfair he makes you feel this way, but wonder (from personal experience not anything thats come from you) if perhaps you also make yourself feel this way to an extent.

This is it exactly. I don't think it's so black and white as him being the bad guy and me the long-suffering girlfriend. I'm really starting to wonder if I'm codependent. There are huge aspects of that my childhood certainly set me up for, and it enables his need to be the centre of my entire life. I don't really know myself well at all, I have massive identity issues. Not to mention I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't as far as sex is concerned - if I do then I feel completely ashamed, and if I don't then I upset him and I feel so guilty I'd usually push through any bad feelings next time because I felt so bad.

But then he knows my history. He knows I get frightened and scared and dissociate. So if I do agree is it up to me to say each time that I'm struggling or should he be aware enough now to know that I probably am?

Hooper, things started off more sexual than they are now. But I don't know how it could have played out any differently. He knew I had issues before we started going out, but he didn't really know what exactly. I need to feel comfortable with someone before I tell them about my abuse - particularly as the first guy I was ever with had the gall to make a few hurtful jokes about it at my expense - at which point we've been dating for a good few months at least. But even then it might be too late. The abusive relationship I was in previously, he told me he cried when I opened up to him about that, but a few weeks later it was like I'd never said anything at all and he ended up using it against me, to blame me for his bad behaviour. Maybe I should have asked to take things slow but not felt compelled to give a reason why (yet I often do find myself defending reasonable things like that).

I feel guilty. I feel like I'm lying to him. But I also feel like I've spoken up about it so often he should have taken it on board by now.