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Sexual Confusion
- Post starter ronin47
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angel2write
Diamond Member
Ummm, right in there with you, Ronin. I think at some point in my childhood I got wired backwards. Gentle touch and gentle words made my skin crawl, but rough treatment, images, etc. aroused me. In 7th grade, I actually fled a documentary about rescuing the survivors from the Nazi death camps not because they were horrific, but because I got painfully aroused and that horrified me. When the teacher tried to comfort me I felt like a monster. An abuser.
A lot of bad boyfriends later, I ended up with a guy who liked to use knives & stuff and ended up getting pretty abusive. I don't think it's just fantasies, like some of the responses above said. I think maybe it's a coping mechanism of some kind if it is, as Heather says, normal for us. Maybe something down deep in the child-self says, "If I have to endure this, perhaps I'd better learn to like it." Or maybe being sexually stimulated during the abuse trained us to associate the stimulation (which is pleasant) with the pain and violence (which isn't), and in classical behavioral conditioning, we start to like it.
At this point in my life the cross-wiring has started to come undone. Like you, instead of being aroused by this stuff, it's starting to alarm me. I am now in a situation where I'm so confused my sexual response is very unstable. Any kind of touch or image can set me off in unpredictable directions. Sometimes a soft touch still makes me sick and sweating- but on the other hand, I think I'm starting to crave loving words and touches. I just have trouble enduring them sometimes.
I'm hoping that eventually I'll be able to settle down on the "good guy" side, give up masochism entirely, and enjoy a more normal, romantic-type experience.
My completely nonprofessional take on this is twofold.
The human mind sometimes "befriends" things it fears out of self-preservation. The quote from The Godfather comes to mind: "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer." If we befriend (fetishize) our fears, we think we are stealing their power. That could be a good thing, but often leads to bad outcomes, because we really have given them power, not stolen it. But it could be healthier than running from fears... I don't know.
My second view is that we are all born hardwired to hate ourselves. This doesn't emerge right away, babies are too undeveloped to show this, but eventually it gets into us. (There's a spiritual saying that you can prove any person is insecure if they exist. Once you master insecurity and self-loathing, you no longer need this existence. The point of living is to suffer in order to teach us to love ourselves, and we "graduate" to a higher plane once we learn that. Take what you can from that notion, or not.) Anyway, every living human being is self-loathing and insecure, it's only a matter of degree. Sometimes we fetishize harmful things subconsciously as a form of self-punishment, in the same way we bite our nails, pull our hair, or get addicted to harmful stuff.
Either way, if we remember that we are also hardwired with basic ethics (even if we spend our lives ignoring that wiring), and one core ethic is DO NOT HARM ANYONE, then if we follow that notion, we can identify negative fetishes or thought patterns and try to overcome them. Keep in mind, DO NOT HARM ANYONE includes ourselves, even in our thoughts and fantasies.
Yes, life sucks and is complicated.
The human mind sometimes "befriends" things it fears out of self-preservation. The quote from The Godfather comes to mind: "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer." If we befriend (fetishize) our fears, we think we are stealing their power. That could be a good thing, but often leads to bad outcomes, because we really have given them power, not stolen it. But it could be healthier than running from fears... I don't know.
My second view is that we are all born hardwired to hate ourselves. This doesn't emerge right away, babies are too undeveloped to show this, but eventually it gets into us. (There's a spiritual saying that you can prove any person is insecure if they exist. Once you master insecurity and self-loathing, you no longer need this existence. The point of living is to suffer in order to teach us to love ourselves, and we "graduate" to a higher plane once we learn that. Take what you can from that notion, or not.) Anyway, every living human being is self-loathing and insecure, it's only a matter of degree. Sometimes we fetishize harmful things subconsciously as a form of self-punishment, in the same way we bite our nails, pull our hair, or get addicted to harmful stuff.
Either way, if we remember that we are also hardwired with basic ethics (even if we spend our lives ignoring that wiring), and one core ethic is DO NOT HARM ANYONE, then if we follow that notion, we can identify negative fetishes or thought patterns and try to overcome them. Keep in mind, DO NOT HARM ANYONE includes ourselves, even in our thoughts and fantasies.
Yes, life sucks and is complicated.
I wasn't raped as a child, but I recall becoming aware of my sexuality in my teens and finding the idea of being dominated and raped to be very arousing. The fact that the submissive is the one demanding this means that it isn't really rape, just rough sex and pretending, or acting, to make things a bit more exciting. I think many women have this fantasy as young women...it doesn't mean they really want to be raped in real life...of course not!
The idea that the child-self protects the person by adapting to the abuse and learning to like it, I find so interesting.
The idea that the child-self protects the person by adapting to the abuse and learning to like it, I find so interesting.
For what it's worth, I knew a woman who was really into BDSM and all that stuff, and during the day was an absolute genius and very articulate. We met online during my "cutting" phase, and she was into "edgeplay" which is very, very dangerous levels of BDSM including cutting. Anyway, we would talk about her lifestyle a lot as hers was chosen, and my problem was not. But I once said it sounded like the sub was really the stronger of the two, emotionally, since the sub has to have the personal strength to surrender, meanwhile the dom just has to dominate. She said I was one of the first people outside of the BDSM world who recognized that on their own, and agreed that the sub in any dom/sub relationship is really the one running things. The dom is usually the insecure one trying to reclaim something, while the sub is generally far more "together" emotionally.
I don't want to drop too much religion or spirituality into this, but another theory is that we bring these lusts or attractions over with us from our past life. Having been raped in a past life could lead to an early, childhood interest in it as we have a residual memory of the past life trauma.
I have always had an attraction to a sister, even though I don't actually have a sister. I would pretend I had one when I was young, and it was a very close attraction to this fictional person. As an adult, the most meaningful relationships I had with women were when the woman and I connected on many levels, including that of brother and sister. Later, I had a past life memory(*) that my sister, in that life, was a very supportive person, protecting me from abuse of my parents.
(* or I could have made the whole thing up in my head as a coping mechanism to handle my trauma.)
I don't want to drop too much religion or spirituality into this, but another theory is that we bring these lusts or attractions over with us from our past life. Having been raped in a past life could lead to an early, childhood interest in it as we have a residual memory of the past life trauma.
I have always had an attraction to a sister, even though I don't actually have a sister. I would pretend I had one when I was young, and it was a very close attraction to this fictional person. As an adult, the most meaningful relationships I had with women were when the woman and I connected on many levels, including that of brother and sister. Later, I had a past life memory(*) that my sister, in that life, was a very supportive person, protecting me from abuse of my parents.
(* or I could have made the whole thing up in my head as a coping mechanism to handle my trauma.)
Quarantine Queen
Bronze Member
Yes! I have had this too and have not talked about it! I used to be aroused by rape scenes or other disturbing images on TV or in literature. I even fantasied about it and as a child acting out rape scenes with Barbie. I think that it just seemed "normal" at the time but now I can not even watch nudity in films with a man in the room w/o being triggered. Especially rape and torture scenes (even when I am alone.)
I also have done lots of research on sex trafficking etc and had a very difficult time reading about it and was causing panic with in myself. I can even not be with a man that keeps any pornography in the house or uses it because of my history first and other reasons following.
I wonder if i will ever attain true intimacy in my relationship with all this in between stuff.
Angel 2write i have a similar past as well and similar feeling about sexuality now.
I also have done lots of research on sex trafficking etc and had a very difficult time reading about it and was causing panic with in myself. I can even not be with a man that keeps any pornography in the house or uses it because of my history first and other reasons following.
I wonder if i will ever attain true intimacy in my relationship with all this in between stuff.
Angel 2write i have a similar past as well and similar feeling about sexuality now.
angel2write
Diamond Member
One of the things I think is kind of getting lost in this discussion is the line between having a voluntary, violent fantasy life (perfectly normal), and a serious involuntary problem with touching and sexual expression. What I'm talking about, and what I think I'm hearing some other people talk about, is not having exciting fantasies of fake rape or experimenting with B&D. It's literally being unable to endure normal sexual expression. It's having that part of your personality warped or torn off by past abuses. When gentle, loving touches become an intense trigger, the only way intimacy can be allowed is in the form of a power play (or by cutting off desire entirely). It's sex as self-mutilation, and it's something much deeper and darker than a normal fantasy life. Do you understand what I'm saying?
As an eight-year-old I felt insanely driven to beat and torture myself alone in my closet, trying to act out some of the things that were happening to me. This is not normal. It's painful, and it's something that needs to be healed, not something that needs to be accepted or experimented with.
I have come to accept that I may never be completely normal (whatever that is), but I do still hope that healing will bring better things for my husband and I. For one thing, even thinking about the violent stuff makes me feel ugly and dirty afterwards. Sometimes I'm sick and agitated for days, feeling intense shame and guilt. I don't think this would happen to someone who was having a more traditional "rape fantasy."
(I have the same problem with rape and torture scenes, Moodygem.)
As an eight-year-old I felt insanely driven to beat and torture myself alone in my closet, trying to act out some of the things that were happening to me. This is not normal. It's painful, and it's something that needs to be healed, not something that needs to be accepted or experimented with.
I have come to accept that I may never be completely normal (whatever that is), but I do still hope that healing will bring better things for my husband and I. For one thing, even thinking about the violent stuff makes me feel ugly and dirty afterwards. Sometimes I'm sick and agitated for days, feeling intense shame and guilt. I don't think this would happen to someone who was having a more traditional "rape fantasy."
(I have the same problem with rape and torture scenes, Moodygem.)
Quarantine Queen
Bronze Member
"When gentle, loving touches become an intense trigger, the only way intimacy can be allowed is in the form of a power play (or by cutting off desire entirely). It's sex as self-mutilation, and it's something much deeper and darker than a normal fantasy life. Do you understand what I'm saying?"
yes.
yes.
I can identify with this; I'm actually nervous to get close to anyone because of this; I'm so sexually INTENSE, to the point of being scary, even to myself; I haven't had sex in a year, and there is "something, or someone" in me that LOVES being hit.....? It freaks me out, and at times I've word vomited (when you say something but have no conscious understanding as to WHY you say it, almost like someone or something possesses you) "Destroy me", and I like being punched (especially in the stomach) and chocked.... and I begin to laugh....like freaky, evil, wizard laughs....lol but it's really crazy :poop: though....I'm afraid and paranoid that EVERYBODY knows my secret, that I'm a 'man-whore' (even though I can count on my two hands how many people I've slept with) and that they're judging me and I'm 'bad' there's just something in me that HUNGERS for this....It's nothing like me, but I don't understand why that is happening to me....I feel like "out of myself" observing this behavior, often through dissociation...It's strange, and maybe I should see a therapist for this "sexual dysfunction" but it happens, and I can TOTALLY understand this.
That's interesting AzureMind.
The fellow I ditched a few months ago would say strange things to me at times, and he also has ptsd.
Once he told me he wanted to tie me up and punch me in the face, and that he liked abusing women...and later, when I brought it up to him (as I kinda stopped seeing him for 3 months after that, I was so freaked by it)...he seemed genuinely freaked and claimed he had no recollection of even saying it. He sounded so sincere when he apologized, and at the time I wondered if it had anything to do with the meds he was on, since he was neither drunk nor high on anything.
Just before I broke it off with him, he asked me in bed, when we were having sex, if he could beat me up?? That's what he wanted, and I could see his disposition change...it was quite unusual from my perspective, as I'd never been with anyone who was into this, and to my knowledge I am not into being beaten up. Suffice to say I said no, but I wondered where it came from...especially the thing about wanting to tie me up and punch me.
I know it's different to your fantasy, and it sounds like you are quite perplexed by it yourself. Were you punched in the stomach as a child? I ask because I think sometimes people who have had severely brutal childhoods with lots of restraint and beatings, grow in a twisted way to like these things after a while...and really, it's understandable.
I used to not like olives when I was a kid...hated them. Then I decided one day to try them when I was a bit older, and they still tasted funny, but I kept eating them, because my father liked olives and I wanted to be as adventurous as he was in the food he eats...so I persisted, and eventually came to really like them.
Obviously, fantasy rape and beatings aren't olives, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.
The fellow I ditched a few months ago would say strange things to me at times, and he also has ptsd.
Once he told me he wanted to tie me up and punch me in the face, and that he liked abusing women...and later, when I brought it up to him (as I kinda stopped seeing him for 3 months after that, I was so freaked by it)...he seemed genuinely freaked and claimed he had no recollection of even saying it. He sounded so sincere when he apologized, and at the time I wondered if it had anything to do with the meds he was on, since he was neither drunk nor high on anything.
Just before I broke it off with him, he asked me in bed, when we were having sex, if he could beat me up?? That's what he wanted, and I could see his disposition change...it was quite unusual from my perspective, as I'd never been with anyone who was into this, and to my knowledge I am not into being beaten up. Suffice to say I said no, but I wondered where it came from...especially the thing about wanting to tie me up and punch me.
I know it's different to your fantasy, and it sounds like you are quite perplexed by it yourself. Were you punched in the stomach as a child? I ask because I think sometimes people who have had severely brutal childhoods with lots of restraint and beatings, grow in a twisted way to like these things after a while...and really, it's understandable.
I used to not like olives when I was a kid...hated them. Then I decided one day to try them when I was a bit older, and they still tasted funny, but I kept eating them, because my father liked olives and I wanted to be as adventurous as he was in the food he eats...so I persisted, and eventually came to really like them.
Obviously, fantasy rape and beatings aren't olives, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.
angel2write
Diamond Member
It's kind of a tough thing to talk about with a therapist, isn't it? But if what's going on is scaring you that bad, maybe it would be a good idea.
I'm still trying to get up the nerve to broach the subject with the lady I'm seeing. Still too chicken. What if she freaks out? Or looks really disgusted? :oops: Then again, what if she could help?
Well, to my recollection, no Philippa; I wasn't under restraints....As a matter of fact, all I really have to go on as far my childhood is concerned, is my parents; and as a child my parents told me I was very quiet, and "wouldn't hurt a fly". I can't really remember anything from those days, so I'm afraid I can't be of anymore help to the matter, but Philippa, you've given me a pretty poignant bit of information....I'll try to do a little digging. :sneaky:
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