News SGB PTSD Treatment Article

[Powder]

Kim A4, can you try to describe how a good, normal day felt before and how you feel now to give me a better picture of what is achieved?
I get that there is an overall sense of calm or a "reset" to a more functional level. I want that, so I'd be willing to try. But if I'm still going to have the other symptoms, then, I might not. Like depression, nightmares, anxiety, health problems, feeling exhausted, sick all the time, and stomach/backaches, not wanting to leave the house, vigilance, and irritability and emotional flooding: feeling a sense of calm in between all this is not enough. So, I'd need to see a reduction of the other parts of PTSD also.

I'm hoping that would go with the total package, both for you, and for others.

Thank you very much for explaining the procedure and how it's really not new, but the application for PTSD is a new, experimental use for it.

I'd like to interject that new applications of medical science is okay in my book. My Dad's heart problem was 100 fixed by going to John's Hopkins in Boston to see the premier research heart surgeon who invented the micro-laser heart procedure that he needed. The surgeon in Seattle who was trained in the procedure failed five times, so Dad went to the "Surgeon's Surgeon" and got the results. He had to pay much more out of pocket, but it is worth it in quality of life. He's off all meds and has lost weight. So I have seen that we do have to put a little faith in our medical geniuses.

 

[Powder]

You are heading down a purely biological road though ikop, and that is not factual. PTSD was initially thought to be purely psychological, though with science and medical developments, they discovered it was a combination of psychological which invoked a biological reaction. Think of it like, exposing yourself to the sun can create a biological reaction to form skin cancer. By treating only the biological reaction, which is what SGB does, the psychological component is still present...
It is excellent progress, yet still needs more work for overall patient safety.

Anthony, I have been told that Rx meds, like the ones for anxiety and depression, assist with counseling because they help return the brain and assist the thinking back to normal. Kind of like a personal trainer or physical therapist; you still have to do the work, but they will guide your efforts so they are put to more effective use more efficiently. While I personally have not found this to be the case due to the fact that the meds don't seem to work for me the way they are supposed to, I am wondering if this "theory" of biological support for psychological healing could lead us to a way to tackle PTSD from both ends effectively.

If this shot helps reduce the "surface tension" of PTSD or baseline anxiety levels, then maybe going to therapy and trying to take care of ourselves will be more likely to happen and more effective. Of course, the scewed thinking, like avoidance and self-isolating thoughts, still have to be renovated and new behaviours have to replace the PTSD behaviours. This still takes time and effort.

Just like you said the block that is PTSD expands and contracts unilaterally according to stress loads, the shot might work on the biological level to reduce one dimension of the stress load. The anxiety of PTSD is self-relicating and reciprocal. Like the Pain Cycle, it plays out in one long, continuous loop. That is what is depressing for me, "When will I be able to _____ without feeling fear gnawing at me?" Like, I'd like to be able to go into meetings at work or be around mid to large groups of people without coming home to crash and sometimes get sick soon after from my adrenals being overloaded.

 

[anthony]

If this shot helps reduce the "surface tension" of PTSD or baseline anxiety levels, then maybe going to therapy and trying to take care of ourselves will be more likely to happen and more effective.

As I have said earlier in this thread, I think so far to date, this treatment has shown the most promise of being a potential cure for PTSD, without a doubt.

The problem as I see it, is from what you say, what do you believe people will do with therapy if they suddenly have no more symptoms?

The next problem is that it is proven that the mind will trump each time, even if SGB works initially, and even for years, medical science has proven the mind will eventually bring the issue back to the surface. Its like medication, our body becomes immune to them and naturally grows beyond our own control. It is like having a thorn under your skin. Our body, without any doing from us, eventually rejects the thorn and pushes it out, usually with lots of puss behind it, and even infection.

This is the unknown problem with this type of treatment, being at what expense is being sacrificed to remove the symptoms and what is the end outcome? Will our brain eventually make PTSD much worse due to suppressing the symptoms? Will our brain just diminish the trauma over time if our symptoms are suppressed? Will our brain naturally get our body to reject the SGB treatment over time, either requiring more and more until its no longer safe, or that we can't have it again.

Medicine already knows our body will reject medications in time... but now we are messing directly with the brain. And this is the biggie question... what is the long term outcome?

Saying this, I think every individual should decide for themselves... if I was still like I was 7 years ago, the constant severity, then I would be lining up for it with my money in hand.

Money is the next issue... its not covered by health care to my knowledge, and requires the person to pay around the $1,000 range for the treatment. It could last you initially days, months or years. Then you have to pay again... but then add the cost of therapy into that equation... SGB would come out cheaper whether funded or paid privately right now. Later on... until long term results are known... that could change or remain the same.

I think personally, to date it has the most amount of promise ever seen for the treatment of PTSD. If you lived near the area, or could get on plane for the treatment, and your suffering is severe... it should be reviewed. Numbers help build statistics, and someone has to always be the guinea pigs.

 

[Powder]

You know, even as I was typing, I think that problem presented itself. What if you no longer had anything to say in therapy. "Yeah, I still ___ but it no longer bothers me..." so then what? You stop therapy because your T. sees you as better. Then, you risk a total collapse if it all suddenly hits you and you're not prepared.

I get that. I would take a decade at least and much more study. If they started handing it out like candy, we'd find out if there is a problem.

 

[Kim A4]

I am now 3 week after the SBG injection and feeling more relaxed each day. Another interesting thing I am keeping in my SGB diary is how the memories of the many traumas I had as a child are growing quickly dimmer, just like "regular" memories do. I imagine in my visualization of what is happening that the injection almost erased the deep imprint "embossing" of the events and converted them into a common event in my memory. I have contacted Dr. Lipov and my own doctor by mail this week, and am meeting today with the PTSD Center in New Haven CT as I am considering starting a fund or foundation to help others obtain this treatment as well. My pain doc is thrilled with my results and also confirms that the medicine has real logic and the procedure makes sense. Before the injection, I was easily startled and always anticipating another trigger event. I was restless and irritable. My general pain levels were more intense. Now I am peaceful and happy to "just be". I find fewer things to be concerned about or dislike, and I am already stopping most of my meds with no problems. I am sleeping like never before.
My vision is to get this treatment to all Vets and any civilians who qualify. Even if the injection only helps for short stints of a few months at a time, I feel people can have an opportunity for cognitive breakthroughs not otherwise possible. I am positive now that although no substitute for real behavioral and cognitive "work", there is a biological and "mechanical" switch that those treatments cannot reach. After 25 years of every other available PTSD treatment, this injection has taken me to a place so much farther beyond other breakthroughs. We are all different, but if it can work for me, with a dozen complex traumas over 22 years, beginning the first day of my life, then I think there is great potential. Just like a broken bone, I believe that PTSD can at least partially be mended on a biological level.

 

[Aj]

I remember first writing on this subject on this forum, thinking, "Wow, this amazing treatment and all in one shot. It's just too good to be true." I have a steady relationship now and I'm taking zoloft, literally the lowest dose because of the side effects, and of course the SSRI's have there "side effects" that interfere. They also make me tired and lethargic at times. Since I got PTSD (ten years ago), I also developed a more severe case of IBS which is only truly curbed by, you guessed it, zoloft. I tried quitting but have undergone weeks of SSRI discontinuation syndrome which is hellish. It's so strange that while I still have PTSD, it's more of a general anxiety I feel including association and flashbacks. Whenever I drive I see an accident at least once flash in my head, even when I'm forced to pass the area where my accident was.

Now I have read that the SGB can not only help with PTSD but IBS. This whole thing leads me to believe the theory of nerve overgrowth, i.e. heightened nerve sensations, which of course would cause a chemical imbalance from a normal brain chemistry. The nerve growth, to me, is only natural given the amount of stimuli and (for me) the fact that my PTSD was from nearly dying in a car accident and I am surrounded by cars daily.

After so much time has passed, I truly want this procedure but I know I cannot afford it. I'm living off disability, I'm trying to make it through school since the PTSD inhibited me from going back when I was ten years younger. Unfortunately there are very little scholarships to help and money is so tight I can barely get by as it is. If there was a cost incurred, I don't think Medicare would cover it. BUT...I have to say how uplifting it feels to read accounts like Kim A4's and others giving me a the very least a SENSE of hope that this isn't a life sentence. I've dealt with the emotional side of my problem, I truly have a sense of closure with my accident despite the flashbacks, but the physiological part is just beyond my control and I truly hate being a slave to zoloft or persistently tied to chemicals. The side effects make it so hard to just live life without feeling the world is against you.

So a big thanks to all of you who post here and have continued to pursue the facts/myths/etc. of the SGB for PTSD.

 

[anthony]

So PTSD is still there and affecting you, just not as much. Is that what you're saying?

If it is just the PTSD aspects, not all the memories, then I'm screwed for this later down the road, as I only have the PTSD aspects now, not all the negative memories hindering me.

Kim, that sounds quite logical... something about memories though which is easily explained, is memories are stored based on emotional significant. I believe SGB numbs that aspect, which as theory seems to be showing in practice, that by numbing that emotional connectivity, the memory can lessen as you say, like all other memories off lesser emotional significance.

Sounds very good still... looking forward to seeing where this goes over the next several years.

Aj... chemical imbalance is myth by the way, just incase you did not know. You can read more on it at: [DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/c/wiki/chemical-imbalance/[/DLMURL]

 

[Aj]

anthony: I think my use of "chemical imbalance" is a more blanket term for neurological dysfunction. I consider a sedating drug like Zoloft is effective precisely for the reason it is sedating. However, I've used it for quite some time and recently truly tried to quit. However, as I stated, that was quite hard due to the seratonin relation to the brain-gut. I would like to stop and treat my IBS (which a lot of other PTSD patients have recorded as also having). But even after that, PTSD has left me anxious and emotionally tepid. I am feeling more and more like the SGB might be the only option I have for a true chance at a higher quality of life.

 

[Kim A4]

I spoke with the director at the New Haven PTSD Center yesterday and she was thrilled and very excited about my results. She said I am the first patient to mention, let alone have the treatment who has been there, and she emphasized that it also makes sense that the block is now "dimming" my traumatic memories as adrenaline is linked to memory storage. Adrenaline is also clearly linked to hyper-vigilance and accelerated heart rate- all the other aspects of PTSD that immediately stopped for me.
Here is a link I quickly dug up about adrenaline (norepinepherine) and memories if you care to read it....Link Removed

PTSD is, in my view, and as I am sure most will agree, is an uncontrollable recurrence or state of extremely heightened stresses, tied to known or unknown trauma memories, with the body acting as though they happened moments ago. The state of stress is easily re-triggered perhaps by the memories are hovering near or are attached to a trauma-induced adrenaline-pumping neuron "tumbleweed", in lieu of being "filed" with the other regular life memories that did not occur along with high adrenaline output or pairing (clearly I am not a doctor, so thanks for bearing with my layperson imagery).

If the SGB truly trims back the branches of this "tumbleweed" of adrenaline producing neurons created along with trauma, it makes sense that the memories stored with that particular set of adrenaline neurons would also be "trimmed" back to more normal style memories.

I do not think that one necessarily has to flash back immediately to the specific initial trauma memories when triggered, it is an unconscious connection the mind makes to survive, based on this heightened state of "non filed" memories that sometimes the oddest events can connect with in the brain. I had unexplained PTSD triggers for 40 years before I was able to finally consciously connect them to a recurring and upsetting childhood event.

My ever-protective brain, however, recognized the similar circumstances and put the adrenaline response into action without any control from me. That part of my neural response area was overflowing with adrenaline and it was quick and easy to activate the "tumbleweed" and make the anxiety re-happen.

Now, after the SGB, I do not react the same at all, as I feel the brain no longer has the same access to the excess adrenaline trigger cluster, so it moves any potentially triggering circumstances along like any other normal circumstances. The trauma/adrenaline/memory neuron clumps acted as a roadblock to normal processing, in my thinking. I feel that the SGB removes the panic-inducing neural roadblock and allows a clear path to processing events in a relaxed and easier way....no more adrenaline tumbleweed tangles to f-up the flow or hold trauma memories front and center.

 

[Aj]

I have to ask: are there any side effects to this procedure?

My curiosity is peaked when I consider the adrenaline connection. Does that mean that if you're put in a position of heightened tension or adrenaline filled that you might relapse? Or does that not seem to be the case, given the neutralizing effect on the "tumbleweed" as it is?

Has it in any way inhibited your life? Or has it simply returned a sense of control over the already pre-existing emotional peaks that one reaches in different circumstances?

I'm financially very poorly off but I am seriously considering this procedure so any information you can offer would be appreciated.

 

[anthony]

Yes, there are side effects to all treatments. This one's worst side effect, is death, which Dr Lipov states can and does happen due to the anestetic, not the procedure itself.

The risks overall are minimal from my understanding, it is more purely that some people have severe reactions to anestetic itself, which is what this procedure uses. The results are still out though, as this is so new... some last weeks, month/s, year or more. Every person so far is quite unique on how long it lasts and the effects of it, which are based on severity of the trauma and symptoms.

This may be the cure for 95% of people with PTSD in the coming years, it certainly looks good right now from results.

I would recommend anyone who has the money, or could get the money, and wants to give it a shot, to give it a shot. Obviously everyone decides this for themself.

 

[TLight]

I have a consultation with a pain specialist who does the procedure tomorrow.
Keep ya all posted.